Possible Emotional abuse, yes it happens to men....

Could it be the whole custody thing that's making her like this? Or did it start before that? I'm just wondering if the stress of it all could have had a detrimental effect on her. She may be doubting herself and maybe if her previous partner was a douche she may be projecting his baggage onto you. Which isn't fair at all, but could maybe explain her behaviour.
I think the only way you can move forward is by insisting upon a sit down, face to face conversation. Tell her exactly how you feel, tell her that you cannot continue to be treated like this and ask her why she is doing it. If only for her daughter's sake she has to change, it isn't healthy for her to see this sort of behaviour. If my husband treated me like that I'd give him an ultimatum. I wouldn't want my kids growing up in a house where one parent is disrespected and belittled. I wish you nothing but the best and hope that one way or another you will be happy.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

I don't know if it's personality disorder or she plain just doesn't love/respect you.

Sounds like the latter to a large degree and there are parallels with some women I've been close to.

It's all arguments and stress, stress, stress, when all you want is peace and harmony.

I didn't know at the time (I tried rationalising things like you) but that was a sign for me to put my walking shoes on.

Why did you marry her? I am mystified. Was this the best you could do?

Sal

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Not that you'd want my opinion, but I'll give it anyway:

Counseling. Both dual and individual. Insist on it, or tell her the marriage is off.

I have a good friend whose husband treated her much the same way your wife treats you. She tried many times to tell him how he made her feel (like crap). He just kept denying that it was his fault. Finally, she told him that she wanted out of the marriage unless he agreed to go to counseling. He agreed. It took about 3 years of intense counseling, with the two of them together, and then by himself - before he came to grips with some serious misogynistic feelings he had towards women in general. He was able to overcome those feelings and learned coping and interaction skills when dealing with her. They recently celebrated their 17th wedding anniversary, and seem pretty happy.

The worse that could happen is that she still won't change, and you'll need to end it. But I think professional counseling is your best bet.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Wow, that's a very hard story to read but it's made even harder when I've witnessed this in other couples as well.

First thing that caught my attention was the distance. I don't remember where I read this, but I once read that, "Distance is a great wind, and love a fire. If the flame of love is too small, the wind will extinguish it, but if the flame burns strong the wind will only serve to fuel it." I'd seriously consider documenting some behavior and seeing if you can get an opinion from someone who knows about these things. (Psych)

Nobody wants to lose a marriage, especially if it did have happy times in the past. However, nobody should have to put up with abuse. Also, we can't forget that in todays time, more than half of all marriage end up in divorce.

Seriously consider if it's worth the time/pain you are putting into it, as you said the money isn't an issue, but if it ever gets too bad, pay what you owe (if possible), cut your ties, and try to stay involved from an emotional distance as well as a physical one.

Even typing this I can feel the pain that it would cause, in my current relationship if I have to spend more than 24-48 hours away from my Fiancee I am a wreck, and I know she wants me near to her as well. If that feeling is lost, if the distance is just a physical representation of the distance already there emotionally, you've got to make a change.

If it's a mental condition, there is treatment but GETTING them to recognize that they have a problem is the key. You might start there and work outward, but I can already tell from your transcripts that you'd probably just be met with anger/frustration.

Weigh out your pro's/con's. It's never easy to see a marriage fall apart but in a few cases I've seen, both people ended up better and were able to provide more for their kids/others than if they were still married. Just something to think about, nobody here feels what you feel or has seen/felt what you have, so nobody can give you iron-clad advice. Just take what you think is relevant and try to apply it to your life.

Good luck man, like I said nobody wants to see a marriage go up in flames but sometimes it's better to just start over as people and see what happens.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

I want to thank all of you for your support, I will be checking back on here and replying to everyone, however my grandmother has just had a stroke , when it rains it poors, so Im going to shift my focus to her and the rest of the family today.......

I hope your grandmother pulled through man. Prayers going out to you and yours.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask


I am coming in late to this thread and have read the three pages of replies and want to offer what I think is a slightly different perspective on what you are doing and not doing in this relationship.


I do not know if it occurred to you but you are not leading with this woman..leading like in a dance.

She is leading you. And it is obvious to me that she is accustomed to leading. By leading I mean she is getting you to try out for her approval ...by leading you . You may even think it is your idea..but she is obviously leading you. She is getting you to try out constantly for her approval..by giving you her disapproval..her criticism.

You are , in being lead, "Trying out" for her approval. I detect that you are in some manner thinking that you are going to run a touchdown for her approval. Forget it. I don't believe she is interested in your running a touchdown.

Getting men to run touchdowns for them is the standard modus operandi for many women out here..not all of them mind you but many. What happens and the sign for which to observe is that you cannot do enough to please them. It becomes one touchdown after another . It is as if you are pulling a wagon and someone is continually putting more stuff in it for you to pull or run for the touchdown or goal post.

This is a formula for misery.

The reason it is a formula for misery for a man is because of the lack of "Peace."

You do not have " Peace " because of her misery and also High Maintenance requirements she so often foists off on you with the expectation that you make up the difference. It is also obvious that she cannot bring Peace and Security to her daughter...but must share the misery.

She is doing to you in her own way what she does to her daughter.

If you stay ...you will be coming in last place...no matter how many first place risks or touchdowns you run.
You are not here to come in last place.

What you have here is a Drama Queen...and this is not Peaceful.


Peace is the very valuable commodity for which a knowledgeable man come to a woman... Not Piece...but Peace. Understand now.

How would a woman ever know this if a man does not know it?? This is also how you separate the women from the girls.

Any man who is a man can get Piece. It is not a difficult commodity by which to get out here. I know women for whom this is their only skill in life. They know little else outside of their consumption rates.

But the valuable woman is the woman who can bring a man Peace. It matters not if she works..it is still Peace..not Piece.

If you know this as a truism...you can lead a woman..not be lead.

Chaos is not Peace...understand now??? Chaos is High Maintenance.


By Peace I mean that the place you lay your hat is a place of order..not chaos. The bills are not in arrears...there is food and heat to be found there. The children are not running the show into the ground. Neither is she running the show into the ground. The inlaws or outlaws are not running the show into the ground nor is the television and movies running the show into the ground.

The place you lay your hat is a sanctuary from the chaos of the outside world and you desire to come to her for this very sanctuary. She protects you with this formula..this sanctuary...and by this puts you on a drug for which you never want to get off it. A knowledgeable man knows this about his woman. She is willing to commit enough to protect him with this formula for Peace.

All the Piece in the world is not worth the misery/chaos of an absence of Peace in a man's life.

Piece is a very very poor substitute for Peace.


You have bought into a product which was not the product advertised. Understand now???

I ask myself how much you deceived yourself in this result you have achieved by not knowing the difference in Peace and Piece.

Peace..not Piece.

Be careful about trying out for approval or she will lead you ..not you her. Any woman who can constantly lead a man will not respect him. You are describing a woman who does not respect you.

Hope this helps in some small manner.

Orangetom

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

The ego is not simple at all. In a relationship with any person, who has not identified pureness of spirit, meaning they do not have a passion to by holy (often religious people can go to church but when they are tested for how much purity they have in spirit they show an unwillingness to be holy, pure in spirit) even if they believe will prove their belief in their action. This is extremely common for any person without religious beliefs also. It is to be a hypocrite, but even worse, to be in denial, because they do not know that we are accounted for in our actions.

In some part we have the false apostle Paul to blame for that. Western Christianity has omitted the truth of historical fact in it's religion. So even the people that want to be pure, they are immediately led down a wrong path, and they will not know it, again, leading to denial and hypocrisy. We are starting to see how a person's perception is based on delusion, and what that produces based on a lack of knowledge.

We have to identify what makes the ego. One thing is pride. It will demonstrate an opposite to all rules of being pure in spirit. In spirit, giving is right, and taking is wrong. It creates the delusion of selfishness. So a person now thinks it is right to be prideful. But it is a delusion, and since they believe it to be right it turns into denial. So already we can see why people fight for their opinions. But first, the ego acts like a barrier and unconsciously produces a range of negative attributes based on the delusion and denial.

It is a sense of delusion also, to think they feel better, controlling another person emotionally, but it is knowing that they do produce emotions, that is where the power comes in. If you are dominant it will cause jealous, but dominant is selfish. The false delusion of pride will make the human produce positive emotions based on the false act of power which encourages their denial. Positive meaning that they will believe it is right, but we know it is wrong because it does not make us feel happy.

An argument is a sin. We have to look at life based on pureness of spirit. We have to be true about what makes a person jealous in the first place, what makes them want another person to be jealous, and how to make the jealousy stop existing within the person. That is an egotistical and prideful way of obtaining power.

But again, we are only focused on what makes our spirit more clean. It is the argument which makes us unclean. That is why it is taught in the bible not to be prideful, and when you look into it, it is taught to not speak over people, not oppose people in speech, and to always speak calm. Again it is not known to man but that sexual attraction is also sin, so again it is making man have an impure spirit when walking down that path.

This is where pride, and all of the falsehood of delusion work to manipulate the emotions. There are rules from which the first Christians knew, they are not found in the western world of Christianity, they are lost teachings, but they are the real teachings, it would be knowing and keeping those lost teachings. All of this has been taught, but not accepted in the western world and not found there either. I was not easy for me to find them, but I will tell you they are in the Dead Sea Scrolls, they are in much of ancient literature not just the bible.

The reason why the prideful think the way they do is similar to the monarchy of an evil king, power and control. But with the manipulation of mind it is to control the inside of your body: your central nervous system, and emotions. Naturally we cannot help being manipulated if we communicate with sexuality because we naturally have a deep sexual attraction inside of us and that is vulnerable. That is why it was taught from the first Christians, to not look at another woman - ever. If you look at a female, you have already sinned, because you have opened the door for lust. That is why reason why they dress promiscuous, it is all an attempt to control, and that is opposing everything in the name of good.

Just thinking back, do you know how much pain, and how many tears have been shed in the name of love? Is that incredible longing, cleanliness of spirit? That pain is from a bond that was broken. We produce chemicals in our body when we form bonds like that, but in forming a bond like that in spirit you are creating something everlasting.

The Way: Selflessness, not selfishness. You cannot win an enemy by hating them, but you can by loving them. Yes you will be emotionally abused, but you are to let your enemy win and be submissive to them, to let them have a falsehood, or pride. Indeed it was taught to let a thief steal. Day after day, simply, there will be days of sadness. Putting yourself behind others, and standing down for hypocrisy, will not feel happy at all. Letting delusion think that pride is righteous? You cannot act of your desire when you are being treated unfairly. In that moment your soul does not take into account what other people do, if they have done wrong, and to treat fairly those who treat you unfairly, is the only righteous way. Now the prideful, they are totally ungodly, pureness of soul has no importance to them, even when they have faith. They are not letting go of their selfish desires to control people, and we will see the unconscious many of their deeds in the name of falsehood; and we will see the root of all evil.

a reply to: orangetom1999

wow great post man and honestly ive been still struggling with all of this...

And everything youre saying I have been telling myself as well and observing

Thank you again so much for being another voice that confirms this for me......

Awesome response ,

And thank you again to the tread members who continually reply, Ive been reading them , even tho I havent been responding and im definitely examining everything you have been saying

Thank you ATS for being a source of support , understanding, and voice of reason in times with this situation where I had a head full of confusion and self doubt.....

a reply to: Ensinger23

"Distance is a great wind, and love a fire. If the flame of love is too small, the wind will extinguish it, but if the flame burns strong the wind will only serve to fuel it."

This 10000 times

Thank you for your post man, yet another person who seems to see what I havent been able to.....thank you for your insightfulness

a reply to: kaylaluv

hey we might not always agree on things and have spirited debate, but hat doesnt mean your opinions or insights arent important or valid......

I agree with you on the counseling thing, im in the midst as we speak of looking at what that would cost.....

Im going to also suggest i think some for her daughter, she has to be affected by this as well......

Maybe even if our marriage doesnt survive this, at least her daughter will have a leg up

Thank you Kayla

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

There is some good advice but take it all with a grain of salt in the end you have to make the choice just listen to your head as much as you listen to your heart and stay strong my brother.

As someone with a sister-in-law from a highly dysfunctional family with spouses who treat each other exactly like your wife does, I cannot say this any clearer:

Unless she's willing to get into behavioral counseling to learn how to deal with her emotions & impulses more appropriately, there's no fixing this marriage just by yourself. She smacks of every single highly manipulative bi-polar person in my sister-in-law's family (when I say they're very effed up people born of effed up people, I mean it)

Having had to tango with one of the nieces on several occasions through her highs & lows, your wife isn't "fixable" with a simple sit-down chat, that's just not going to happen. In their world, they can get whatever they want by any means (usually emotional manipulation & emotional abuse) There's zero incentive to change themselves unless they come to that realization themselves. Pouring your heart out & pleading for her to work on it legitimately with a professional may work, but I make no promises. The relatives that did end up getting treatment/counseling got it either after countless arrests for domestic violence (don't let her go there, just don't) or after a trusted close relative had enough & broke down on them. The more narcissistic & unstable a person is, the harder that impact is to make on them, and the more difficult it is for them to understand what they're doing is wreaking havoc on others. They think they're normal & you're the one with issues, that's just how they see things.

I'm not saying that you're wife is bi-polar herself, but damn, I read your exchanges with her and thought, "Mary**? Is that you?"
(**niece's name changed for privacy)

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask


Hey ...Your welcome ManBehindTheMask. I hope in someway it is helpful to you in your walk in life.


Something extra for you ..no cover charge.

A woman who understands a man's need for Peace...she is able to see into a man's soul and see what is missing from his life and fill it for him. Even though he may not recognize it at first. Over time ..she can, as I stated in an earlier post, put him on a drug for which he never wants to get off it.

This is a very very powerful inducement for a man who knows the value of Peace from a woman. And very few women today know this because few men know this . Most men settle for Piece instead of Peace. Understand. They are settling for a counterfeit.

This is why it is so important for a man to know this. Otherwise you can easily be way laid...and take first place risks for your monies and then come in last behind what she wants and expects without any Peace coming to you.

Just watch carefully for that olde pattern of wanting to constantly run touchdowns for a woman or a woman and children..where you constantly come in last place while taking first place risks for them. I've known to many men like that and they are miserable and don't know why. They don't understand High Maintenance..they only know running touchdowns.

Thanks,
Orangetom

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask
Females are like tax collectors, and some of them can never truly be happy no matter what you do. I do not really believe they are capable of it, and they will take it out on you. To tell the truth, people never change, and generally if it does not work after the initial onset and whole get together after everybody starts really being who they are.

Then it likely never will. And the more effort you put into thing wont change anything either...I have found that is just the way things are. Your best bet? Move on.