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Senate CIA Torture Report Released: "Mismanaged Dungeons"

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posted on Dec, 9 2014 @ 11:37 PM
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Has anybody considered the fact that these torture methods were amplified under Bush because the 9/11 attacks were enough to warrant such tactics?

Was 9/11 a large scale attack or not?

The state of mind at the time had to be a factor.





posted on Dec, 9 2014 @ 11:41 PM
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a reply to: neo96

That post has nothing to do with what any of us are trying to say. The only thing you seem to be able to come up with is that the current administration plans to continue with rendition - and that Clinton's hands weren't clean

Pay attention - things are coming to light now that will (hopefully) change everything

Torture is indefensible

Who do you think you're defending? It doesn't matter who was, is or will be involved

Bush and Cheney are not off the hook simply because other people are also guilty



posted on Dec, 9 2014 @ 11:44 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
Has anybody considered the fact that these torture methods were amplified under Bush because the 9/11 attacks were enough to warrant such tactics?

Was 9/11 a large scale attack or not?

The state of mind at the time had to be a factor.





After 911 most people I know wanted to bomb them back to the Stone Age.

When we got there we discovered they were already in the Stone Age.

I hope the next people that attack us at least have the courtesy to have a lot of sh!t to blow up.

Murica



posted on Dec, 9 2014 @ 11:45 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Sure it does.



it has also said that at least some forms of renditions will continue.


What the hell do people think that means ?

Business as usual.



posted on Dec, 10 2014 @ 12:28 AM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
Has anybody considered the fact that these torture methods were amplified under Bush because the 9/11 attacks were enough to warrant such tactics?

Was 9/11 a large scale attack or not?

The state of mind at the time had to be a factor.





Your state of mind at the time, and the state of mind of so many others is a factor. The Bush Administration used people's fear from 9/11 to push through this torture agenda, and they used it to invade Iraq, and they used it to pass the Patriot Act and start spying on people. They knew exactly what they were doing.



posted on Dec, 10 2014 @ 12:40 AM
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I wonder what benefit false confessions have when you're waging a false war? That's what this torture was used for. For the benefit of a false war. For continued funding. For money and military budgets. Torture centers were like farms cultivating lies to drum up more money. Throw the pile of scary lies on congress if they delay approving a war budget. Throw it on the American people if they ask why we have to give up our freedoms. Throw it on the world when they ask why they're being spied on.



posted on Dec, 10 2014 @ 01:05 AM
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*golf clap*

These threads are useful. They allow one to spot the people who have lost all humanity on ATS. They also enlighten some slumbering souls to the very poison and disease that flows through the veins of America. If America were a dog she'd need to be taken out back and shot.

And for the love of Pete let Neo stand in front of George Bush with his bowie knife and slingshot. There is no future and a destroyed thread in engaging him.



posted on Dec, 10 2014 @ 01:34 AM
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a reply to: SkepticOverlord

There is NEVER an excuse for torture, and anyone who says otherwise is the lowest form of #, and has no morality at all.



posted on Dec, 10 2014 @ 01:40 AM
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a reply to: Aazadan

No.. they are not even close to the same... the currents tactics are used to affect the subject mentally, to break them. The ones I mentioned from ages ago cause irreparable damage usually to the point of death.. there is a huge difference.

The life of my friends friend is just that .. their life.. they are not my friend nor do I know them.. in a life or death situation I will choose those I know and love over those I don't.



posted on Dec, 10 2014 @ 01:42 AM
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originally posted by: Malynn
*golf clap*

These threads are useful. They allow one to spot the people who have lost all humanity on ATS. They also enlighten some slumbering souls to the very poison and disease that flows through the veins of America. If America were a dog she'd need to be taken out back and shot.

And for the love of Pete let Neo stand in front of George Bush with his bowie knife and slingshot. There is no future and a destroyed thread in engaging him.


Right!

And man, really, I had this nice posting specially prepared for Neo... Now I will never get his enraged answer/accusation back... Anyway:


So, Neo, you seem to see the failures of others, but not a single one on Bushs side.

*sits down*

*takes a cup o' tea*

*leans back*

*takes a sip*

Neo... would you like to tell me about your father?



posted on Dec, 10 2014 @ 02:55 AM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Xtrozero

No it shifted from 'waterboarding, and torture' was evil.

To its just better to killing them outright with drones.


As an outsider, what do you think of the Human race?



posted on Dec, 10 2014 @ 07:55 AM
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The very people who released the report were the ones well aware of what was going on and they allowed it. If there are consequences, I hope the terrorists go after them. I also think the timing is suspect and the report is more political and without much context.

One thing the report doesn't mention are the methods used by the other side. I suspect they are just as dastardly if not more so than ours. We don't want to mention that though, the narrative has to be evil America..



posted on Dec, 10 2014 @ 08:03 AM
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a reply to: truckdriver42

Yes, the terrorists use the same methods - or even worse. That's why it's a bad idea to give people the impression that torture is just fine when fighting terrorists. Placing yourself on the same moral level as terrorists is a really, really bad idea.



posted on Dec, 10 2014 @ 08:17 AM
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Take a good look at the first post again in this thread and read the difference between how the New York Times wrote the first paragraph then:


WASHINGTON — A scathing report released by the Senate Intelligence Committee on Tuesday found that the Central Intelligence Agency routinely misled the White House and Congress about the information it obtained from the detention and interrogation of terrorism suspects, and that its methods were more brutal than the C.I.A. acknowledged either to Bush administration officials or to the public.


and now:



WASHINGTON — The Senate Intelligence Committee on Tuesday issued a sweeping indictment of the Central Intelligence Agency’s program to detain and interrogate terrorism suspects in the years after the Sept. 11 attacks, drawing on millions of internal C.I.A. documents to illuminate practices that it said were more brutal — and far less effective — than the agency acknowledged either to Bush administration officials or to the public.

link: Panel Faults C.I.A. Over Brutality and Deceit in Terrorism Interrogations

Why the revision?

1. removal of the word "scathing"
2. removal of the notion that the CIA "rountinely" lied

The last line of both versions focuses on the Bush administration NOT being told about methods used for interrogation (basic torture). YET, look at this video:


"This government does not torture people." (0:53)

Most importantly: "The techniques that we use have been fully disclosed to appropriate members of the United States congress." (1:30)

The report is "damaging" to the U.S. because it's proof how Bush and his administration lied to Americans. It begs the question: What else did they lie about concerning 9/11 (listen up anti-conspiracy theorists).




edit on -06:00America/Chicago31Wed, 10 Dec 2014 08:19:46 -0600201446312 by Petros312 because: Formatting



posted on Dec, 10 2014 @ 08:36 AM
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originally posted by: kdyam
a reply to: Aazadan

No.. they are not even close to the same... the currents tactics are used to affect the subject mentally, to break them. The ones I mentioned from ages ago cause irreparable damage usually to the point of death.. there is a huge difference.


Both are designed to break the subject and cause a lifetime of trauma, one just involves physical stress while the other is mental.


The life of my friends friend is just that .. their life.. they are not my friend nor do I know them.. in a life or death situation I will choose those I know and love over those I don't.


Well, we're not in a life or death situation. Additionally, your friend could have just as easily been born elsewhere. It's pure random chance that that person is your friend. Why favor someone over that? What would your outlook be if like me you had friends living in Iraq that were killed by US forces? Too bad because they're my friend and not yours?

If people are created equal, like our constitution states as it's founding principal then who we each know shouldn't be a factor.



posted on Dec, 10 2014 @ 09:11 AM
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originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: truckdriver42

Yes, the terrorists use the same methods - or even worse. That's why it's a bad idea to give people the impression that torture is just fine when fighting terrorists. Placing yourself on the same moral level as terrorists is a really, really bad idea.



According to the report, two people died during the interrogations. On the other hand, the terrorists flew fully loaded aircraft into buildings. How many were tortured during that incident in the planes, in the buildings and on the ground, not to mention all of the families that had to sleep with that mental image every night.

I know I would like a heads up when the next attack is coming down. Of course I live in the real world and I don't sit on a perch and say CIA is evil for getting information any way they could.

Do you know what CIA prevented because of the "awful" torture? Is that in the report?



posted on Dec, 10 2014 @ 09:17 AM
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originally posted by: truckdriver42

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: truckdriver42

Yes, the terrorists use the same methods - or even worse. That's why it's a bad idea to give people the impression that torture is just fine when fighting terrorists. Placing yourself on the same moral level as terrorists is a really, really bad idea.



According to the report, two people died during the interrogations. On the other hand, the terrorists flew fully loaded aircraft into buildings. How many were tortured during that incident in the planes, in the buildings and on the ground, not to mention all of the families that had to sleep with that mental image every night.

I know I would like a heads up when the next attack is coming down. Of course I live in the real world and I don't sit on a perch and say CIA is evil for getting information any way they could.

Do you know what CIA prevented because of the "awful" torture? Is that in the report?


It is actually: nothing. Not a damn thing. Because torture does not result in reliable information being given up. Life is not an episode of '24'. People will make up whatever they think will please the person torturing them, if they'll just stop torturing them. Torture doesn't work. It has never worked.



posted on Dec, 10 2014 @ 09:50 AM
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America has signed numerous treaties and declarations which state quite clearly that we do not use torture.

If for no other reason, like for example, it is a barbaric and inhuman procedure, we should honor our commitments and promises.

If we do not do so (and we haven't) why should anyone, anywhere trust the word of the United States of America, anymore?

Those of you arguing that we should stoop to the lowest level and forget everything we have EVER STOOD FOR AS A NATION should consider this from an entirely selfish point-of-view, since altruism and ethics obviously escape you ...

We need people and nations to believe us and have trust in what we say again. We have lost that trust, and blaming the messengers or continuing in the stupidity of raw partisan politics, is not going to bring it back to us.



posted on Dec, 10 2014 @ 10:17 AM
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originally posted by: truckdriver42
I know I would like a heads up when the next attack is coming down. Of course I live in the real world and I don't sit on a perch and say CIA is evil for getting information any way they could.


Torture IS an evil act, to lie about doing it IS an unethical means to an end, and to employ evil in this manner makes Americans evil too.

I know there are plenty of Americans who can't help but rationalize, stay in denial, rely on cognitive dissonance reduction, etc., but in the final analysis two wrongs never make a right. This is karma.



edit on -06:00America/Chicago31Wed, 10 Dec 2014 10:18:16 -0600201416312 by Petros312 because: Formatting




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