Senate CIA Torture Report Released: "Mismanaged Dungeons"

a reply to: spiritualzombie

Problem with that is they should be upset with every administration since Eisenhower.

Fact is they aren't.

Even more WRONG with that picture.

a reply to: xuenchen

*facepalm*

a reply to: Kali74

IMO there is nothing 'concrete' to go on.

Once again if they had not sat on it for 6 years.

Then maybe it would be different.

Had they not lied about 'not knowing'.

Then it might be different.

originally posted by: xuenchen

Controlled Opposition comes to mind.

Controlled indeed. Working as intended.

originally posted by: amazing
That leads to the question of how much information and how friendly Dick Cheney was to Bush...Not to be trusted though.

It's a good question. For the first 7 years of his presidency or so Cheney seemed to be the one who was really in charge, which given the fact that Bush is the idiot screw up son seems plausible. Bush seemed to assert himself a bit more in that last year though but that was too little too late.

Cheney though shot a judge in the face after drinking and wasn't even charged. Infact as a response the judge apologized to Cheney for making him shoot him in the first place.

Bush was not on top of things.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: spiritualzombie

Problem with that is they should be upset with every administration since Eisenhower.

Fact is they aren't.

Even more WRONG with that picture.

Bush made torture legal. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzales-- these guys worked hard to make illegal torture methods legal.

Neo you're always complaining about people blaming Bush for Obama's problems-- and now you want to blame Eisenhower for this report against Bush?

a reply to: spiritualzombie

No.

He used the same methods CLinton used.

From the ACLU.

The current policy traces its roots to the administration of former President Bill Clinton. Following the attacks of September 11, 2001, however, what had been a limited program

www.aclu.org...

Dunno why some people are ignoring that.

'What had been a limited program'

WE don't toture!

Yes we do, but just a 'little'.

Same GD policy created BEFORE GW got in to office.

a reply to: neo96

Would you agree they ALL suck?

a reply to: zazzafrazz

I would agree the selective history, and the politics suck.

Because that is the only reason this is even being talked about.

I guess I am going to stop sourcing in this thread because it's all gotten ignored.

Rendition, the practice of capturing and transporting someone to another country without legal extradition, is not a new practice. It has been used by U.S. law enforcement for decades to bring wanted suspects back to face trial in the U.S., rather than to a foreign country. In his book Ghost Plane: The True Story of the CIA Rendition and Torture Program, investigative journalist Stephen Grey reports that the earliest known rendition by the U.S. was in 1883 when Frederick Ker was kidnapped in Peru by the Pinkerton Detective Agency and rendered back to Chicago to face trial for grand larceny.

In Ghost Plane, Stephen Grey writes that extraordinary rendition by the CIA began as a systematic tactic on September 22, 1995, with the capture of Egyptian Abu Talal al-Qasimi, in Croatia, and his transfer to Egypt where he was executed.

www.pbs.org...

What sucks is there will never be a 'report' of the CLinton administration all the way dating back to the first rendition 'case'.

a reply to: neo96

Yeah, you said it. With Bush it became broad strokes. Dramatically expanded to horrific levels that made even the detention centers say "I don't know... Is this even legal?" Torture run rampant.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: zazzafrazz


What sucks is there will never be a 'report' of the CLinton administration all the way dating back to the first rendition 'case'.

I agree.

But they missed that boat and "tripped" up when they fixated on cigars, interns and the definition of sex.

Each team picks their battle.

a reply to: neo96

When you can't blame Obama, blame Clinton... Or even Eisenhower-- anyone but Bush...

I'm not real concerned about what they've been up to, although I doubt it accomplished much. Buddying up to a prisoner has been shown to be far more effective, because people can be coaxed to tell their secrets to someone who is nice to them.

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
a reply to: neo96

When you can't blame Obama, blame Clinton... Or even Eisenhower-- anyone but Bush...

How is Bush guilty of anything when he did they same exact things as those who came before him.

Yo if people think torture still isn't going on READ THIS.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: neo96

Really? All the presidents have redefined torture as enhanced interrogation and they all had Alberto Gonzales explain to the detention centers how the torture is deemed legal and they all had the help of Rumsfeld sending over new interrogators to help train in the new torture arts? And were are the other presidents also intentionally misleading the world and congress into war using false evidence?

All the presidents did that?

a reply to: spiritualzombie

And were are the other presidents also intentionally misleading the world and congress into war using false evidence?

False evidence eh.

Alright I will play

Really? All the presidents have redefined torture as enhanced interrogation and they all had Alberto Gonzales explain to the detention centers how the torture is deemed legal and they all had the help of Rumsfeld sending over new interrogators to help train in the new torture arts?

We know Johnson did:

The Program was designed to identify and "neutralize" (via infiltration, capture, terrorism, torture, and assassination) the infrastructure of the National Liberation Front of South Vietnam (NLF or Viet Cong).[2][3][4][5] The CIA described it as "a set of programs that sought to attack and destroy the political infrastructure of the Viet Cong".[6] The major two components of the program were Provincial Reconnaissance Units (PRUs) and regional interrogation centers. PRUs would kill or capture suspected NLF members, as well as civilians who were thought to have information on NLF activities. Many of these people were then taken to interrogation centers where many were tortured in an attempt to gain intelligence on VC activities in the area.[7] The information extracted at the centers was then given to military commanders, who would use it to task the PRU with further capture and assassination missions.[7]

en.wikipedia.org...

Between 1968 and 1972, Phoenix "neutralized" 81,740 people suspected of NLF membership, of whom 26,369 were killed. A significant number of NLF were killed, and between 1969 and 1971 the program was quite successful in destroying NLF infrastructure in many important areas. By 1970, communist plans repeatedly emphasized attacking the government’s pacification program and specifically targeted Phoenix officials. The NLF also imposed quotas. In 1970, for example, communist officials near Da Nang in northern South Vietnam instructed their assassins to “kill 400 persons” deemed to be government “tyrant[s]” and to “annihilate” anyone involved with the pacification program. Several North Vietnamese officials have made statements about the effectiveness of Phoenix.[11] According to William Colby, "in the years since the 1975, I have heard several references to North Vietnamese and South Vietnamese communists who account, who state that in their mind the most, the toughest period that they faced in the whole period of the war from 1960 to 1975 was the period from 1968 to '72 when the Phoenix Program was at work."[26] The CIA claimed that through Phoenix they were able to learn the identity and structure of the VCI in every province.[17]

originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
a reply to: neo96

When you can't blame Obama, blame Clinton... Or even Eisenhower-- anyone but Bush...

How is Bush guilty of anything when he did they same exact things as those who came before him.

Denial at it's finest...

Anyone who uses/authorizes torture is a coward. COW-ERD!

Yes, Clinton and Obama are cowards...

SO IS BUSH!!! (either one of them).

Every president that has taken office since the day of my birth was/is a LIAR, a THIEF, a COWARD, and a sorry excuse for a human being in general.

Republican... Democrat...

SAME S___ DIFFERENT CONS!

Are you a sucker?

Do you think Bush saw people like you coming?

How else would he have gotten away with all that cowardly crap?

Think about it...

You actually believe Bush cares about you as much as you seem to care about him?

Really?

a reply to: neo96

Same GD policy created BEFORE GW got in to office.

The only thing that matters is that it stops and that it never happens again. This report was going to come out eventually Neo - and there's plenty of blame to go around

Who are you defending?

Releasing this report is one of the few honorable things we've done in a very long time. Let's not sully an already filthy situation further by trying to pretend Bush and Cheney didn't do what they clearly did. Whoever started it, however far back this goes - and however long it's being allowed to continue - it's up to all of us to look at this directly and accept it for what it is



It's pretty likely nobody will pay for any of it in any case

ACLU Calls on Obama to Pardon Bush Officials for Torture

In the run-up to the release of the Senate’s scathing report on CIA interrogation techniques, American Civil Liberties Union Director Anthony Romero called on President Barack Obama to pardon George W. Bush and Bush administration officials for their hand in allowing those techniques. Romero argued that a pardon would establish precedent—torture is a crime that requires a pardon. Without that acknowledgment, he said, there is little legal pressure preventing techniques like those outlined in the Senate report from being used again.

a reply to: applesthateatpeople

Anyone who uses/authorizes torture is a coward. COW-ERD!

Then so is Feinstein.

''I have no question in my mind that had it not been for 9/11 -- and I'd do anything if it hadn't happened -- that it would have been business as usual,'' said Senator Dianne Feinstein, Democrat of California. ''It took that real attack, I think, to kind of shiver our timbers enough to let us know that the threat is profound, that we have to do some things that historically we have not wanted to do to protect ourselves.''

www.nytimes.com...

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

The only thing that matters is that it stops and that it never happens again.

Are people even reading what I say ?

Because it doesn't sound like it.

For the umpteenth time:

www.abovetopsecret.com...