Islamic State (ISIS) releases a Guide to Buying and Selling Female Slaves

a reply to: Freeborn

I'm not denying they're Muslims...

That's impossible.

Much like the priests we hear about so often are Catholic...
But I'll be damned if anyone here would say they are representing Christianity.

So they may be Muslims, but it's not Islamic.
They contradict the Quran with pretty much everything they do.
There is no formal excommunication in Islam, however me and every Muslim I know agree that IS will be less than pleased come Judgement Day.



As for Aisha, the Prophet's wife, it's been determined by scholars she was at least 18.
Most links to the contrary are, suspect.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Much like the priests we hear about so often are Catholic...
But I'll be damned if anyone here would say they are representing Christianity.

I don't think any reasonable or rational person believes IS represents all Islam.

Yes, it's beyond doubt that there was / is an element within The Roman Catholic Church who used their position to abuse young children.

But, and it's a massive but, at no point did anyone try to use Catholic scripture to justify it. There was never any attempt to codify and legalise that abuse.

And, not before time, The Roman Catholic has now publicly admitted that there was / is a problem and are actively taking measures to redress the problem. (Whether they are doing enough, especially considering all their previous attempts to cover things up, is not really the question here).

So they may be Muslims, but it's not Islamic.
They contradict the Quran with pretty much everything they do.

But they twist and bend and manipulate Islamic teaching to justify this sexual slavery.
THEY believe they are following Mohammed's word and teachings.

There is no formal excommunication in Islam, however me and every Muslim I know agree that IS will be less than pleased come Judgement Day.

What about Taliban or Al-Qaida etc?
There are numerous Islamic sects who condone this sort of treatment of 'captives'.

As for Aisha, the Prophet's wife, it's been determined by scholars she was at least 18.
Most links to the contrary are, suspect.

I've got to say that most accounts of Mohammad's life I have read give Aisha's age as 8 or 9.
But I understand that this may be as a result of Mohammad's enemies trying to discredit him.

Guess it depends on which 'scholars' one believes as many have determined she was indeed pre-pubescent.

I know you are passionately anti-Wahhabi but in an attempt to understand your perspective are you Sunni or Shia?

Personally I was nominally raised Catholic but consider myself Agnostic.....I think ultimately its all irrelevant - its how one lives one life that counts, adhesion to silly man made dogma is pointless.
Just my opinion.....and not really relevant for this discussion, maybe in another thread some time.

edit on 9/12/14 by Freeborn because: ? Chopped end of post off...but everything appears ok when I try to edit post......very, very strange.

a reply to: phyllida

I agree with you ma'ma....but we have to understand its their way of thinking and upbringing. Just like anything else. They think the freedoms we enjoy and the way we treat woman are abhorent to them and their ways.

So. Here we are...we believe and are appalled and "when are they gonna DO something about this horror?"...and there they are at the other side looking across the sea saying "We must DO something about those Infidels and the devil-dressed women...(you know where Im trying to go with this).

What I think...and I know Im only one person...we somehow in this world need to see things from above and realize there are two opposing sides...to try and figure out how all can agree to humanity and respect.

Until we see their way...and they see ours...we'll never build that bridge...and these atrocities will continue. This horrific treatment of women is perfectly normal in their world.

We've got to find a way to get them to see that. But, at the same time...they will expect us to understand their way.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

This is the rest of my post which for some mysterious reason is missing?
Everything looked ok when I try to edit......very, very strange.
Anyhow.

As for Aisha, the Prophet's wife, it's been determined by scholars she was at least 18.
Most links to the contrary are, suspect.

I've got to say that most accounts of Mohammad's life I have read give Aisha's age as 8 or 9.
But I understand that this may be as a result of Mohammad's enemies trying to discredit him.

Guess it depends on which 'scholars' one believes as many have determined she was indeed pre-pubescent.

I know you are passionately anti-Wahhabi but in an attempt to understand your perspective are you Sunni or Shia?

Personally I was nominally raised Catholic but consider myself Agnostic.....I think ultimately its all irrelevant - its how one lives one life that counts, adhesion to silly man made dogma is pointless.
Just my opinion.....and not really relevant for this discussion, maybe in another thread some time.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Maybe the same evil spirits that Mo himself said spoke to him are whispering into the ears of ISIS radicals.

I don't know if Islam is a religion of peace but I know for sure it's a tool of evil.

originally posted by: intrptr
Lets not call attention to Extraordinary Rendition (kidnapping) or secret torture sites either.

Especially when they are about to release another innocuous report that supposedly will detail all that stuff.

Yeah.

You could probably start your own thread about that instead of spamming someone else's thread with irrelevant, off topic BS.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: grandmakdw

Not every country institutionalizes rape, sexual slavery, and dehumanization of women

ISIS is a country, then? Or a figment of imaginary conditioning by the media?

Go ask ISIS what the "IS" stands for, and you'll have their perspective on that matter.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: TheLaughingGod

There has been numerous Female Islamic leaders...
How many Female Presidents have you had?


You know rapists are hung and beheaded in Islamic countries...
My country gives rapists a new name & address...

So, these ISIS guys - the ones buying and selling Yazidi, Christian, and Jewish women so they can rape them - when can we expect to see their public beheading or hanging?

a reply to: nenothtu

Depends how they come to perish...


If they're killed in a firefight with Kurds or a Sunni/Shia tribe probably not.

If they're hit by US led Airstrikes they'll be blown to smithereens.

If they're captured by any of those fighting them such as Hezbollah, I'm certain that they'd be decapitated or hung.



One can only hope though.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Freeborn

I'm not denying they're Muslims...

That's impossible.

Much like the priests we hear about so often are Catholic...
But I'll be damned if anyone here would say they are representing Christianity.

So they may be Muslims, but it's not Islamic.
They contradict the Quran with pretty much everything they do.
There is no formal excommunication in Islam, however me and every Muslim I know agree that IS will be less than pleased come Judgement Day.

I detect a slight inequity, sir.

Now, I understand that you as a Muslim condemn ISIS actions. Believe me when I say that I understand that very well, and close to the heart.

The inequity is in the fact that you are willing to call them "Muslim", while they are not willing to do the same for you. To ISIS, you are an "innovator" or an "apostate", simply because you do not see the legitimacy of their actions. They would kill you just as quick, or maybe quicker, as they would any other kafr, because as far as they are concerned, you ARE a kafr - you don't believe the same way they do. For that, they would kill you and enslave your wife and children just as fast as any of the rest of us.

Is that really "Islam"? If not, can they really be called "Muslim"?

Not long ago, I knew another Muslim, a fine young lady. She was Islamic to the very core, and a better Islamic scholar than most of the male Muslims I know. Well, When Gomer and Company announce the Caliphate, with Gomer himself as kalifah, she just about blew a gasket. I told her it was not legitimate, that Gomer was not legitimate, and not to worry over it... but she DID worry over it. She could find no way under shari'a to show him illegitimate. According to her, he's every bit as legitimately kalifah as Umar was. Same process of selection.

It worried her a LOT. I do believe it was the final nail in the coffin of Islam for her. He called to Muslims world wide to follow him, claimed authority over all Muslims, and she just could not abide by that. She couldn't accept that, yet could not prove his illegitimacy - hence the reason she nearly blew a gasket. Instead, she left Islam.

She is no longer Muslim.

I guess that's ok in a way - ISIS would never make her a slave, because of that very thing. their own rules at the moment require them to kill her dead instead, and to be honest, I think she'd rather BE dead than be an ISIS sex slave. According to the current ISIS deliberations, they can enslave people of "original shirk" (I think that's what they called it - not sure if I'm recalling the terminology right though) which would include Yazidis, Christians, Jews, and last I heard even Hindus and Buddhists - but not apostates, and not Muslims they've determined to not agree with them (also pronounced as "apostates" or "innovators"). Those are being slaughtered, although their women (so long as they haven't declared themselves apostates) are just being put on the auction block.

Don't lose your religion, friend. Denounce ISIS and everyone in it. Don't even call them "Muslim", for they are not your brothers by any stretch of the imagination.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: nenothtu

Depends how they come to perish...


If they're killed in a firefight with Kurds or a Sunni/Shia tribe probably not.

If they're hit by US led Airstrikes they'll be blown to smithereens.

If they're captured by any of those fighting them such as Hezbollah, I'm certain that they'd be decapitated or hung.



One can only hope though.

What if they don't perish at all? They're not doing a very good job of perishing at the moment.

It looks like they just might not have enough help with it, and are having a hard time doing it on their own.

Who will execute them for their crimes of rape and murder then?

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: nenothtu

Depends how they come to perish...


If they're killed in a firefight with Kurds or a Sunni/Shia tribe probably not.

If they're hit by US led Airstrikes they'll be blown to smithereens.

If they're captured by any of those fighting them such as Hezbollah, I'm certain that they'd be decapitated or hung.



One can only hope though.

As time goes by they grow and attract more and more.
There is a reason for this, other than world leaders being pansies at the moment.
The reason is they are following the literal examples set by Mohammad, which makes them the most Muslim of them all.
They carry the black flag. They conquer lands. They rape. They take slaves. They behead enemies. They bribe. They steal. They follow Islamic teachings strictly, down to the definitions of when it alright to have their way with female children or if they need to dissect their clitoris off first if they fail a virgin examination. They are not shy about all these things they do in their God's name. They point the one finger as they do them, just as Mohammad's first followers did.

The majority of Muslim's worldwide can shake their heads and say no they are not Islamic, but all the centuries of their existence being peaceful among other nations means nothing compared to the example set by their God's prophet. You will never convince them otherwise and they will continue to convince people from the Muslim masses to follow them because of this.

Member nenothtu's story of the woman is the sad truth but most will not be capable of her feat because being a Muslim is a total way of life, it would be like disowning your own child (which ironically Muslims are taught to do if the child becomes apostate).

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
There is nothing Islamic about any of this.


But some of you live in a fantasy land where us Muslims are the boogeyman.


Carry on.

Islam is as bad as Christianity, Judaism, Scientology, Hinduism and every other faith on the planet. You are all a bane to mankind, you are all boogeymen and should be removed..!!

a reply to: stosh64

They just want a land of their own. Poor them or something. This is being taken out of context. We should ignore this aspect of ISIS because of reasons.

a reply to: grandmakdw

I am a born and brought up in the Middle East Muslim girl. My parents are Indian Muslims. (I currently am agnostic)

This is as appalling to me as to the next person, but the reality is this -

People treat women badly and then look for excuses within their religion, not the other way around. It is unfair to blame the religion over the actions of these people.

As far as my knowledge goes, the Qu'ran has verses that says it is acceptable to marry women of the state that is captured by war, but this is only because they would be widowed and they wouldn't have a means of sustenance for themselves or their little children. Multiple marriages were also allowed for the same reasons -- to be able to support women who couldn't support themselves. This was true for the time when the Qu'ran was given to man, but ISIS finds it convenient to say the Qu'ran allows this and inflicts their disgusting behavior hiding behind a religion.

If I am wrong here, you are free to correct me, and if you are interested, I would offer to tell you more. It's better to know nothing rather than to have little wrong information.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Warlord:

The term can also mean one who espouses the ideal that war is necessary, and has the means and authority to engage in war.

Mohammed:

In the space of a single decade he fought eight major battles, led eighteen raids, and planned another thirty-eight military operations where others were in command but operating under his orders and strategic direction.

Muhammad's belief in Islam and his own role as the "Messenger of God" revolutionized Arabian warfare and resulted in the creation of the ancient world's first army motivated by a coherent system of ideological belief.

Yeah..

originally posted by: antar
1 google search: Page one of thousands....


UNODC - Human Trafficking
www.unodc.org...
... involves the procurement for financial or other material benefit of illegal entry ... 12 November 2012 Prevent migrant smuggling to reduce human trafficking ... 17 October 2012 Human trafficking under spotlight at Conference of Parties meeting .... International community broadens efforts to help victims of human trafficking.
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www.ccv.org...
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It is the illegal trade in human beings through recruitment or abduction, ... one another through building a community, taking on various anti-trafficking ... ATP can provide tailored trainings and presentations to meet the needs of many audiences. ... Safe Horizon is a member of the Alliance to End Slavery and Trafficking ...
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Thank you for posting this!

It happens EVERYWHERE AND NEEDS TO STOP.

It is a WORLD issue.

I am just as outraged at the western Elites as I am at these BA$!@&DS.

But so many cant even consider this EVIL because it would destroy their illusion.

But arguing left vs right, Christian vs Muslim, creation vs evolution, explosives in the towers vs planes bringing them down and on and on does so much good.

This is a VERY REAL EVIL.

And it gets ignored by most.

originally posted by: VirusGuard
The banks in the west go one step more and teach banks how to create debt slaves where people work 40 hours a week and still cannot buy a home or have bacon on the table.

Some of the slaves kill themselves due to the debt and crap way of living and people who fight the banks can always be shoot by the police who are little more than tax collectors.

Does ISIS have more slaves than the USA has in prison for profit jails because i see it as the pot calling the kettle black.

I actually agree with this. It starts with our western education/indoctrination. There is an excellent video in THIS THREAD about it.

If you would check my posts you would see I hate both equally.

So are you saying because the good old USofA is so FUBAR we, being the world, should down play the EVIL committed elsewhere?

Please explain your last line. I just don't get the point.

originally posted by: DaphneApollo
Why aren't women taking a firmer hand in raising their little boys to NOT have this mindset?

Really? Blame the victim? Women are treated as second class citizens and don't even have the same legal rights as men. They are mistreated and are 'put in their place' by men all of their life. They don't have the power or the authority to raise the children not to have that mindset. They are beaten for disagreeing with their husbands or for disagreeing with their version of Islam.

The 3 sources quoted in the OP are a bit of a giveaway!
MEMRI - that highly trustworthy Jewish source that gave us the old "wipe Israel off the map" quote from the Iranian leader.

Pamela Geller - Oh, another rabid Jewish source.

NYT - Article from someone who, from their name alone, sounds like a bit of a chosenite!

All a bit ironic really when you consider that Israel is known internationally for it's human trafficking shenanigans, especially Eastern European young women being sold into prostitution for those horny Rabbis.