Detroit burger joint shows it’s possible to pay workers $15 an hour and still make money

a reply to: Grovit

if youre an adult trying to support your family on a macnasty check, you did something wrong somewhere along the way.

You couldn't be more wrong. What about towns where the factories shut down and there are no other jobs. Just because a person is working this kind of job doesn't mean they did something wrong it means there is nothing left.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: tothetenthpower

Either way, legit numbers or bad numbers, I have a hard time supporting somebody who flips burgers making $15 an hour. Unskilled labor is just that: unskilled. Pay isn't going to go up across the board. Why should somebody who runs a register at my closest gas station make a couple grand less than a teacher? That blows my mind.

Lets see you take a job that pays minimum wage where you have a good chance of getting a gun stuck in your face. In many places these people should be getting combat pay because they face more of a chance of getting killed then the people who serve in the military.

a reply to: buster2010

i stand by what i said.
there are always other jobs available.

i will concede that a portion of adults working there have no other options due to job availability.
that still leaves loads of them with criminal records and loads of them that flat out dont want to work at other places due to type of work, shift, etc.

im focusing on the people that dont want to work at the factories and the people like the lady i mentioned with a record.
that is not my problem and i dont care if they have a hard time.

so a factory shuts down where they were employed and the only jobs available are fast food for miles around? nothing else?

You can`t base the pay on how much skill a job takes,you also have to take into account how desirable or undesirable the job is and how well the person does the job.

Some jobs take little skill but they are so boring that a lot of people would never do them for any amount of money.
people who take low skill boring jobs should be paid a living wage because they are providing a service that a lot of people need but would never do themselves.

Jobs like:

overnight Toll booth attendant
overnight Hotel clerk
overnight cleaning person at a hospital

those are low skill boring jobs, but they need to be done and most people would never do them.

Everyone who is willing to work, no matter the job, should be paid a living wage.

why should someone who is working full time for minimum wage receive less money and benefits than someone who isn`t working at all and is receiving government welfare?
after deducting travel expenses and the other expenses of working,welfare is a better deal than working for minimum wage.

i bet a great deal of these people that dont make 'living wage' and bitch about being broke have touch screen phones. you know theyre rocking broadband internet. flat panel tv's.
i know not all but a good deal....that stuff is not needed. sure, its nice but you dont need it to live.
it is not just about how much you make. its how you budget and spend too.
i can afford to buy my clothes at macy's but i dont.
i go to goodwill.
nobody is making them buy silver tab jeans at 44 bones a pair.
that does factor into their situation too.

only so much sympathy to go around.

originally posted by: Tardacus
boring jobs should be paid a living wage because they are providing a service that a lot of people need but would never do themselves.

its not just boring jobs. its hard jobs. its jobs that requite weekends. jobs that require holidays.
3rd shift jobs. swing shift jobs.
there are lots of jobs out there that people simply will not do....instead they flip burgers and bitch about being broke.
they have it in their head that theyre not gonna work those places so they dont.
their own fault

a reply to: Tardacus

Uh no. You can absolutely base the pay on how much skill it takes. That's why a master electrician makes vastly more money than his apprentice does. The idea that they deserve the same level of pay is 100% absurd. The idea that the apprentice should be paid anywhere close to what the master electrician makes is absurd. One is unskilled, one is a master. Maybe you're comfortable having an apprentice work on your house. I mean, they're paid the same so what's the difference right?

You bring up welfare. The welfare system is utterly broken. It's supposed to be a hand up, not a hand out. Help you bridge the gap and get back in the work force. That's now how it's used. That's not germane to the debate though.

a reply to: DenyTreason

In the U.S.,they can earn up to $2,000 a month before they have to give up any handouts.

Never mind $15.00/hr. If restaurants just paid the minimum wage to waitresses, waiters, and bellboys.. the public who frequent these establishments will not have to feel guilty to tip - to make up for the greediness of the restaurant owners.

a reply to: MarkJS

i wasnt thinking about actual restaurants till just now.
you know, with actual cooks/chefs that cook actual food.
that have to know how to cook. that have to know about cross contamination and all that.

now the mcnasty grill guy that cooks(presses a button) frozen dog # patties are going to make as much as a legit cook?

yeah, something is wrong with that

I sorta live in the area....and wondered why I never heard of this new place in Detroit....well......it's not IN Detroit LOL
www.moocluckmoo.com...#!

I wish them luck....and they may have loyal customers....but it's hardly a place I'd go 30-40 miles out of my way.
Also sounds like they pay their people way more that waiters and waitresses get in good establishments.....so, the cynic in me wonders what doesn't add up

It is business owners like this which prove that a business can be successful without cutting costs in every possible way. Some times if you can offer a quality product with a quality service, people are willing to pay more. I tend to be against anything that interferes with the free market, so I don't necessarily believe in forcing minimum wages upon business owners, but I think business owners should have the morality to voluntarily pay their employees a fair wage which allows them to live a moderately comfortable life. People are asking why such an easy job should pay only a few grand less than a teacher makes per annum, but what you should really be asking is why teachers in the US get paid so little.

The minimum wage in Australia is now about $16 per hour, which is roughly twice that of the minimum wage in the US, yet our unemployment rate is about the same as the US and our businesses are doing fine. Sure you might pay a bit more at a restaurant but I guarantee the food and the service is better than what you will find in the majority of US restaurants, and you wont have to tip anyone at the end because tipping is non-existent in Australia.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
It is business owners like this which prove that a business can be successful without cutting costs in every possible way..

www.eclectablog.com...

And while Moo Cluck Moo has only been in business since the spring

^^^^
2 locations and not even a year open= success???

theyre new and trendy.
wait till the novelty wears off...

a reply to: Grovit

Yes I think we got it. You've made your perspective on the matter very clear after posting constantly in this thread since the first page. Employees should take what ever they get, and we should forget about the fact that they are human beings. Costs should be cut in every possible way because you can't can't make a profit from selling a high quality product these days. Your logic is undeniable.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I frequently ask why teachers, law enforcement, firemen, and so on are paid the way they are. Doesn't change that it is what it is, hasn't changed. Don't think fry-boy needs to make more money till others who merit it more do

The only effect of raising the minimum wage will have, especially if it's doubled, will be to create inflation. Business owners aren't stupid or foolish. They will pass the costs on to the consumer. Who eats at McD's? People who earn minimum wage. They will incur higher costs. Same with counter workers in all businesses. They may make a few more bucks, but will also pay more. There's no winning. Only treading water.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I frequently ask why teachers, law enforcement, firemen, and so on are paid the way they are. Doesn't change that it is what it is, hasn't changed. Don't think fry-boy needs to make more money till others who merit it more do

Well when it comes to public sector jobs it's a bit more complicated. Obviously we cannot raise all wages at the same time to make it exactly fair. And I'm not even saying we need to force a raise in wages, all I'm saying is that business owners should try to care more about the well being of their employees, to see them as humans and not merely as business assets. It just seems like no one wants to raise their wages unless some other guy does it first, which is probably a major reason for the stagnation of wages mentioned by tothetenthpower.

Of course I don't expect many businesses to actually follow this mans example, but for every business owner which does follow his example we get one step closer. Eventually people might refuse to work at any business except the ones which treat their employees fairly, and through a free market process the immoral businesses will go bankrupt because they don't have enough employees or people simply refuse to shop at their business. In a perfect world that would already be happening, but unfortunately people don't care enough.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: Grovit

Yes I think we got it. You've made your perspective on the matter very clear after posting constantly in this thread since the first page. Employees should take what ever they get, and we should forget about the fact that they are human beings. Costs should be cut in every possible way because you can't can't make a profit from selling a high quality product these days. Your logic is undeniable.

well i didnt say any of that..
your pay should reflect your skills. thats the gist of what i said but go ahead and twist it around
definitely going to keep posting in this thread now

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I frequently ask why teachers, law enforcement, firemen, and so on are paid the way they are. Doesn't change that it is what it is, hasn't changed. Don't think fry-boy needs to make more money till others who merit it more do

It's because those professions are paid by taxes and not corporations and businesses and every time anyone talks about raising taxes, the general population do what it seems humans do best, bitch, complain, moan, raise hell , drag their feet, yet never fix the problem.

If you are really so concerned about those professions getting paid more then run for city council, run for mayor and tell the people you want to raise their property and city taxes to pay their teachers, firefighters and police more. Has nothing to do with the wages of private sector, non governmental employees.

originally posted by: DenyTreason
Very simple stuff. Its almost like the finacially set folks want to see the average American struggle and our country remain down.

Ya, 3c0nomix be simple. U ppl make me lolz.

Economics is about as 'simple' as nano-engineering.

If we double the minimum wage to $15/hour, it will be a matter of months before every dollar is worth about half as much as it was before.

This part is pretty simple. Let's say I currently make $15/hour doing skilled labor (I will not waste time arguing with someone who denies the distinction between skilled and unskilled labor). If unskilled laborers start making what I make now, you can be damn sure that everyone doing my job will immediately demand $30/hour so that we are paid a fair wage. The guy above me who currently makes $25/hour will demand $50/hour, and so on.

In response to doubling everyone's wages, businesses will be forced to raise prices or close their doors, as well as lay off employees. It will be incremental at first, but the end result is that a $3 loaf of bread will cost at least $6. Things will be no more affordable for anyone, and the dollar will have taken a serious blow.