Detroit burger joint shows it’s possible to pay workers $15 an hour and still make money

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
a reply to: tothetenthpower


I'm a business owner with four employees, he gets squat from the state. Unless you count all the crappy taxes and fees you get to pay.

Yeah, I've heard it all before. My dad owns multiple hotels and is constantly carrying on with his conservative rants about how he can’t turn a profit after being forced to pay his employees the $20.50 casual minimum, plus the superannuation employer contributions (retirement savings) we have over here, together with the varies taxes and bills he has to pay. But the reality of it is his still making a killing and lives a very privileged lifestyle.

Doesn't really matter what country it is, the rich and well off will always talk like they’re living in rags and try to take advantage of the lower class!

Says a lot that your dad owns multiple hotels and you are not in this family business. Maybe you should listen to what he has to say before just dismissing everything. He has likely earned his "privileged lifestyle"

originally posted by: peskyhumans

The extra expenses for worker's comp, taxes, and benefits also better be accounted for. The example provided by Moo Cluck Moo isn't realistic at all.

"Loaded labor" is what you get when you factor all this in. It's an accounting term that describes the actual cost per hour of an employee, with all the overhead.

The population of the two cities in MI where Moo Cluck Moo is located : Cantor - over 90,000; Dearborn Heights - over 56,000

There are hundreds of cities in MI (and all the other states) with a population of 10,000 and under which couldn't possibly do this. There isn't enough traffic to support the wage increase no matter how you work the numbers. Could you see this working in Richmond City MI, population 5,700? They have one McDonalds fast food, not sure what else is available.

If it works and his sales do in fact jive with employee pay numbers and overhead with room for profit, then the mega junk food corps (McD's, etc) have no excuse, they rake in billions in profit. Therefore, good for the guy,, hats off to him.
a reply to: Grovit

I'm going to have to completely disagree on a lot of what you said. I think once you do the time, and some time has passed between it & now (5 years seems fair to me) then length of time being the proof of not repeating the crime should be factored into jobs, always. I know people who were idiots in their youth who could stand a break 20 years later on that felony charge from way back when. They kept their nose plenty clean enough and never were arrested again. They paid their debt & proved they could get their ish together and keep it that way, so why should they have to continue to be punished with only having really rotten jobs left to pick from after all this time? Would it still be applicable if they were 60? 70? At what age does "Oh, all right, you can have something better than car wash operator" apply? If you want to keep that range of "bad jobs" the only thing people with a record can do, you might want to consider that YOU are supporting the creation of a very poor sub-class, and burdens to the state in forms of EBT, Medicaid, utility assistance, etc. Think twice next time.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: Grovit

But you do realize that with inflation kept in mine since the 70's that the minimum wage SHOULD be 20$ an hour if we expect people to be able to have a decent quality of life.

Wages have stagnated even though production has gone way up in the last 40 years.

Sure I agree with pay relative to the work, but in this case it's spot on. Most other developed nations have minimum wage standards of at least 10 or 11 dollars an hour.

~Tenth

You are 100% correct. That bit of info was crucial to add in this thread.

We need better wages ACROSS THE BOARD in America. We are going down the toilet as a country. The American dream is a fantasy today for the average American worker. A FANTASY.

The finacially set elite treasure the average person who thinks against their own interests like many here. Minumum wage is FAR LESS than it should be for a decent life and to allow these low-wage earners to not be supported by our TAX DOLLARS which are needed support them.

The biggest evil in America to the working folk are the huge employers who are making record profits yet not paying decent wages that keep up with inflation. They are an evil to the exploited workers AND to us TAX PAYERS. They can afford to pay what minumum wage SHOULD BE. A portion of the annual bonus of a typical large company's CEO could easily pay for wages increases without raising prices one dime. Most CEO's work less in 10 years than the average American worker works in a single 8 hour shift.

And about "unskilled labor"...

originally posted by: DenyTreason
There is a great reality television show called Undercover Boss that is fairly new.

I love that show! The CEOs always end up seeing that their "workers" are actually people who work HARD and are very skilled in what they do. Is the CEO's salary comparable to the pittance they pay their workers? Absolutely NOT! The CEOs have their own skills, but they still can't even do the job they pay minimum wage for!

I cannot beleive people here are butthurt over someone who is willing to work and be paid a decent wage. You people should be ashamed of yourselves.

Believe it.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
here is the one i like best. Whatabuger.

Imagine what's in that burger... But Moo Cluck Moo is serving actual food, without hormones or preservatives. It's worth it. I'd pay for it. Good for them! I wonder what the CEO makes compared to McDonald's CEO...

a reply to: Nyiah

i know people that were idiots too.
i say it is employer discretion...
why not?
they made the mistakes. thats their problem.

seems like a slap in the face to people that dug in and towed the line all their life. the people that put the time in skilled trade positions to earn that money.

if fast food wages hit $15 an hour then what happens to the other industries?
i would choose a mill or a factory over fast food but thats a personal choice. not just fast food but food service. i dont like working with food.
not everyone feels that way.
what happens when the thousands of people that work in factories making $15 or less decide to split to work at mcdonalds?
lots of people would rather hit the burger grill for $15 vs whatever line they are on...

i dont see how a person that is new to the work force with no skills at all deserves to make $15 an hour for flipping burgers and dumping fries...i know it can be fast paced but that is not a hard job.
it is not physically or mentally demanding....
it is not worth $15 an hour

In the fifties minumum wage was .75$ a loaf of bread was .12$. today minumum wage is 8.50, a loaf of bread is 3$ you really think that 15$ is a lot?

originally posted by: DenyTreason


We need better wages ACROSS THE BOARD in America. .

im cool with that.
your pay should reflect the work you do.
say what you will but i will never change my mind on this.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Imagine what's in that burger... But Moo Cluck Moo is serving actual food, without hormones or preservatives

i doubt very seriously they are buying organic beef.
check the prices for just this one grass fed beef company.

Our grass-fed beef price for this year is $3.70 per pound (same price as last year) hanging weight for the beef, your total cost with slaughter and processing is explained below. All figures are approximate since we won’t know the exact weights until time of processing.

it you will note in the link that's before processing .
Current Pricing for Our Grass-Fed Beef

here is a little more info.

Slaughter is $50.00 and cut and wrap is $.75 per pound based on hanging weight. The wrapping is in cryovac, which will keep your beef for up to two years. Assume 1,000 lbs. on the hoof for figuring purposes, it may weight up to 1,200 lbs. or as little as 900 lbs. 55% of live weight on rail = 550 lbs. x $3.70 = $2035 + (.75 x 550) $412 = $2447 + $50 = $2,497 Cut and wrapped meat = 75% x 550 = 412 lbs. (plus soup bones & sausage) (sausage is optional) $2,497 / 412 lbs. = $6.06 (This average will run from $6.50 to $6.75) per pound for your organic pasture grazed, grass-fed beef. This is about the price of one pound of ground grass-fed beef at a Farmer’s Market or at Whole Foods Market. This is clearly the most economical way to feed your family with all the health benefits of grass-fed beef.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

What they didn't tell you is that the CEO is one of the 4 employees flippin the burgers.

a reply to: Grovit

I really don't think you're going to see much of an exodus from other industries into the food industry. Not many will trade a job they actually like for one they do not for a buck or two more and hour. I worked in a cafe before, I'll never work around food again. 3 days and that was enough. I do not like handling food, and I loathe people. Not my kind of job, not even for $15 an hour. People that do enjoy the job (actually enjoy it) is another thing entirely.

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
I have a hard time believing this article. His numbers make no sense for anybody that has employees. He left out way to much cost.

He said this..
"Four workers are needed for the average shift, Parker told Crain’s, and each restaurant is open 10 hours a day, seven days a week.

That works out to $60 an hour on labor, or $600 a day and $18,000 a month, the owner said."


That's no where near the true cost.

I pay a guy $15 an hour, add $5 for social security, add $3 workmans comp.
thats $23 an hour.
Thats $92 an hour on labor or $920 a day and $27,600 a month.
That does not include vacation and sick days that a full time employee will recieve either.

How did he fail to account for one third of his labor expenses?

I forgot one other thing,
They are open ten hours a day but he needs people working at least eleven for prep and cleanup time.

Actually he is paying 3$ more per hour so that's 12 dollars more per hour 120$ more per day and 3600$ more per month. Add over labor cost of around 25% and that totals 4500$ more he is spending per month. I would think daily sales are around 300 meals or average 10$ per meal. That's 3000 per day in sales. to make up the difference he would need to raise prices about .60 cents per meal.

originally posted by: Nyiah
a reply to: Grovit

I really don't think you're going to see much of an exodus from other industries into the food industry. Not many will trade a job they actually like for one they do not for a buck or two more and hour. I worked in a cafe before, I'll never work around food again. 3 days and that was enough. I do not like handling food, and I loathe people. Not my kind of job, not even for $15 an hour. People that do enjoy the job (actually enjoy it) is another thing entirely.

im with you. i cant stand food service and i cant stand people...all the way
but
for every one of us there is someone that will follow the money. a few bucks more an hour over 30-40 hours a week can make a difference.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
And about "unskilled labor"...

originally posted by: DenyTreason
There is a great reality television show called Undercover Boss that is fairly new.

I love that show! The CEOs always end up seeing that their "workers" are actually people who work HARD and are very skilled in what they do. Is the CEO's salary comparable to the pittance they pay their workers? Absolutely NOT! The CEOs have their own skills, but they still can't even do the job they pay minimum wage for!

I cannot beleive people here are butthurt over someone who is willing to work and be paid a decent wage. You people should be ashamed of yourselves.

Believe it.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
here is the one i like best. Whatabuger.

Imagine what's in that burger... But Moo Cluck Moo is serving actual food, without hormones or preservatives. It's worth it. I'd pay for it. Good for them! I wonder what the CEO makes compared to McDonald's CEO...

Yes, EVERY CEO from that show comes out as a changed person having the utmost respect for the average and low-paid workers in their company.

Some people here who are butthurt over people who are willing to work (and work HARD) and desire a decent wage need to have karma slap them hard to allow them to see the error in their thinking. Reincarnation and karma is very real. They will not like it in their next life when they are in the shoes of the very people they have no compassion for. They will change their views quickly when they are in those shoes..

KARMA!!!

originally posted by: jlafleur02

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
I have a hard time believing this article. His numbers make no sense for anybody that has employees. He left out way to much cost.

He said this..
"Four workers are needed for the average shift, Parker told Crain’s, and each restaurant is open 10 hours a day, seven days a week.

That works out to $60 an hour on labor, or $600 a day and $18,000 a month, the owner said."


That's no where near the true cost.

I pay a guy $15 an hour, add $5 for social security, add $3 workmans comp.
thats $23 an hour.
Thats $92 an hour on labor or $920 a day and $27,600 a month.
That does not include vacation and sick days that a full time employee will recieve either.

How did he fail to account for one third of his labor expenses?

I forgot one other thing,
They are open ten hours a day but he needs people working at least eleven for prep and cleanup time.

Actually he is paying 3$ more per hour so that's 12 dollars more per hour 120$ more per day and 3600$ more per month. Add over labor cost of around 25% and that totals 4500$ more he is spending per month. I would think daily sales are around 300 meals or average 10$ per meal. That's 3000 per day in sales. to make up the difference he would need to raise prices about .60 cents per meal.

The average McDonald's has sales of 2.5 million. 8 people per hour work for 15 hours per day with 8 dollars more per hour averages to about 380,000$ per year. Raise the cheese burger cost 15% and that makes up the difference or instead of paying 1 buck for cheeseburger you would pay 1.15$

a reply to: DenyTreason

I believe in paying people a decent wage related to the work they do. Quick round of math: his employees come out making $2,000 less than a teacher in my area in their first couple of years of teaching. You can't be a teacher here without a four year degree. Plus a certification. So....a 17 year old kid working the fry machine deserves to make nearly as much as a person who has a college degree and a certification to teach, along with all the other responsibilities and out of pocket expenses teachers deal with?

I'm not ashamed of myself at all. If the fry machine operator "deserves" that much money, then the teachers' pay should go up accordingly. There's decent pay, and there's "decent" pay.

a reply to: Shamrock6

thats how i feel too but i like to you the skilled trades examples.

there are guys on the melt deck making $17 an hour.
its 120 degrees up there on a good day. the guys in the melt work no less than 10 hours.
it is bust ass work and there is zero room for error.
their measurements have to be spot on to get the chemistry right.

if theyre pouring ductile for example they need the right amount of mag. too much and no good. not enough and no good. throw it in too early and no good. too late and no good.
they might pour 12 castings out of 1 ladle. when i was running chemistry in the lab i had to scrap entire ladles before. 12 castings at 10 grand each.
costs the company money and it causes their customers not to get their quality product on time.

they have to melt and pour again. then they have to sit for a couple days so they shake out 3 days late. it trickles down to the customer....im talking windmill parts. blocks for natural gas pipelines. electro motor boxes for trains.
their mistake effects all that.

make the wrong mistake up on the melt and people get hurt or die. its happened before.
throw wet pig into the furnace and it shoots out like a bullet only it weighs 80 pounds...

i dont see how a a person new to the work force dumping fries and making nuggets deserves even close to the pay the melt guys get...
or teachers....its a joke and it is a slap in the face

It is possible. If companies would just stop trying to be so greedy and trying to squeeze out every last dollar, better ingredients, better service, better training, better wages. Stop eating crap like McDonalds and BurgerKing and Taco Bell.

originally posted by: Grovit
a reply to: Shamrock6

thats how i feel too but i like to you the skilled trades examples.

there are guys on the melt deck making $17 an hour.
its 120 degrees up there on a good day. the guys in the melt work no less than 10 hours.
it is bust ass work and there is zero room for error.
their measurements have to be spot on to get the chemistry right.

if theyre pouring ductile for example they need the right amount of mag. too much and no good. not enough and no good. throw it in too early and no good. too late and no good.
they might pour 12 castings out of 1 ladle. when i was running chemistry in the lab i had to scrap entire ladles before. 12 castings at 10 grand each.
costs the company money and it causes their customers not to get their quality product on time.

they have to melt and pour again. then they have to sit for a couple days so they shake out 3 days late. it trickles down to the customer....im talking windmill parts. blocks for natural gas pipelines. electro motor boxes for trains.
their mistake effects all that.

make the wrong mistake up on the melt and people get hurt or die. its happened before.
throw wet pig into the furnace and it shoots out like a bullet only it weighs 80 pounds...

i dont see how a a person new to the work force dumping fries and making nuggets deserves even close to the pay the melt guys get...
or teachers....its a joke and it is a slap in the face

Maybe the melt guy is underpaid. If you raise the fry guys pay then the melt guy will get a fry job. Then the owners of the melt shop will have to offer a higher wage to attract new employees for the melt job. did you ever think of that