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Ron Paul: ‘US provoking war with Russia, could result in total destruction’

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posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 08:24 AM
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originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter
a reply to: Xcathdra
West wants to isolate Russia, to divide it and allow its natural resources to be exploited by the business that dictates American foreign policy. Hence the reason for the US supported Maidan coup in Kiev.


Funny... you seem to think Ukraine is a part of Russia. You really need to brush up on your history. Oh, and Assad is a secularist in name only. He is an Alawite, and favors his fellow Alawites in governmental and military appointments. The Alawites are a minority in Syria, which is why he is unpopular with the Sunni majority. His goal seems to be to reduce the Sunni population so that the Alawites become the majority sect. Russia seems happy to help.




posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 08:36 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

Homework: read the "source", follow the instructions and check the results.


This 411 to 10 vote margin is 98%, and it contrasts starkly against the 62% of Americans who, in the most recent poll, opposed sending U.S. arms to the Ukrainian Government; 30% favored sending those weapons. (8% had no opinion.) (The above link includes also that poll-result.) So, 67% of those who had an opinion (62% divided by 92% is 67%) shared the view of the 10 members (2%) of the U.S. House who voted against this measure. Only 33% of the surveyed Americans who had an opinion on it shared the view of the 411 House members (98%) who voted in favor of this measure.



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 08:47 AM
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a reply to: DJW001



You really need to brush up on your history.


Little help: 1000 years of European borders change timelapse map.




posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 08:54 AM
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The americans, like the british public are sick to death of cuts to services yet there's always money for the warmongerer president or prime minister. However its hard to declare war against a country that hasn't threatened you directly. Sure you can go into it on the back of another country which is all Amedrica's interest in Ukraine is about. If they can push the media into showing atrocities and also by downing planes - regardless of how many loose their lives, they will keep going. However with publics sick of wasted money demanding their taxes be spent on things that actually benefit the people who earned the money in the first place (new concept for cameron and obama) it seems that the warmongers are going to have to do something spectacular to get people on board and we have seen it all before so are even less likely to believe false flags anymore and change our minds about wars.

Putin is thought of far higher by his people than either cameron or obama whose people are pretty disgusted with each of them, both rothschild's lackies who will both move out of politics to lead the life of leisure they are use to because of serving their master's desire of using public money to fund his ambitions such as central banks in every country and a perverse financial system that benefits him and no one else nearly as much.



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 09:06 AM
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a reply to: maghun

Thank you. Here is the data that RINF (short for "Russian Info?") calls "recent polling":



rinf.com...

The figure Mr. Zuesse cites dates from April, when events were unfolding rapidly. Yanukovytch had just recently fled, but elections had not yet been held. Russian troops were massing on the border and Putin was beating the war drum. Most Americans knew only that there was chaos in the streets, and that the government had been firing on its own citizens. The Odessa fire had not yet happened. Most Americans realized that the situation was too murky to trust the as yet unofficial government. Not surprisingly, they favored not getting involved at all. What is most telling is the progression from the earliest poll to the latest:

In early April, only 7% favored military involvement and 43% wanted not to get involved. Two weeks later, 30% favored military aid, and by the beginning of May the number wanting not to get involved dropped to 28%. By July, after the full impact of Russia's invasion of Crimea, the number of Americans favoring military involvement rose to 9%, and only 19% thought the United States should take no action, whereas a solid 71% favored sanctions.

Congress was responding to the growing feeling among Americans that Ukraine may be the first battlefield in a "hot war" of Russian aggression and imperialism.



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 09:07 AM
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originally posted by: maghun
a reply to: DJW001



You really need to brush up on your history.


Little help: 1000 years of European borders change timelapse map.





It's only the past dozen years that really count.



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 09:36 AM
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originally posted by: TrueAmerican

Former congressman Ron Paul has lashed out at the resolution the House passed against Russia, branding it “one of the worst pieces of legislation ever.” It could even pave the way for a potential war with Russia, as it was with Iraq, he warns.

Resolution 758 strongly condemns the actions of Russia under Vladimir Putin, for what it describes as a policy of “aggression against neighboring countries,” in a motion that describes Moscow’s political and economic domination in the region.

However, Ron Paul says the bill was nothing but “16 pages of war propaganda that should have made even neocons blush.”

Speaking to RT, Paul added that the resolution was "part of the war propaganda machine."

"It’s this kind of stuff that stirs up trouble. I’d rather dissipate the problems and have our government tone the rhetoric down a little bit. This was terrible; this was just a very provocative resolution," he said.

rt.com...




Oh no! It's Ron Paul making too much damn sense again! We can't have that now, can we?



Well yes, we can. Even though our dumbass leaders in Congress overcame disputes about virtually everything else to vote in strong favor.

Recently Russia warned that there are consequences for provoking a nuclear power. And Russia seems to be backing up that warning recently also with increased, long range bombing training exercises in our own backyard.

What I am waiting for is for NATO to make that very wrong and provocative move of putting a substantial ground force to contest Russia's actions in Ukraine or elsewhere. Let it come as no surprise when they get wiped off the face of the earth with a tactical nuke. Russia has stated they will do this without hesitation if threatened, and they are not playing the conventional arms race game any longer.

Also, there is a lot more discussion in that video, so check it out. He points out so many more things, and especially how both the Reps and Dems foreign policy is so, so far from a more constitutional, non-interventionalist policy. Play with fire and you're going to get... nuked.


I am with you on this one. I am not a fan of libertarian environmental or economic solutions, but I do respect libertarians for in my view more purely embodying conservative principles. Republicans aren't conservatives, at least in policy.

What do I mean by this? Ron Paul is on point about US foreign policy, and how we have no right to be attacking or interfering with all of these countries.

And, yes, the US is engaging in "war propaganda" with Russia, as the US has a long factual history of interference, intervention, oppression, and manipulation of all kinds of countries and regions, including its own neighbors in Latin America for the last 100 years. Pot calling the kettle black.



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 09:37 AM
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a reply to: DJW001



The Odessa fire


Why not name it self-burning?


Media have published an audio recording, which may indicate a direct involvement of a colleague of ex-governor in Odessa Vladimir Nemirovsky to the tragedy of May 2nd. Nemirovsky headed the Odessa region at the time.

The recorded conversation allegedly took place on May 2 and presumably between the head of the department for cooperation with law enforcement agencies of the regional administration Igor Bolyanskim and coordinator of the self-defense "Euromaidan forces" Dmitry Gumenyuk. During the conversation Bolyansky asked Gumenyuk to divert his people to the Kulikovo Field, said the publication "Timer".

On November 27 the Primorsky District Court of Odessa began the proceeding of the criminal case on trumped-up charges of rioting on May 2 the people who have actually suffered. The Anti-Maidan people are accused in burning like-minded people - in other words themselves.


!!! 21+ !!! (russian language) video



What about the Maidan "Sniper's Massacre"?



the number of Americans favoring military involvement rose to 9%, and only 19% thought the United States should take no action, whereas a solid 71% favored sanctions.


Looking at the full scale western propaganda, the result is pathetic.


We found 36 invasions!
From Sarah Palin to John McCain, from the NYT to the BBC, - Google delivers over 1.3 million results.
Its so old and worn out, people are tuning out to the "boy who cried wolf."


How Many Times Has Russia Invaded Ukraine? Let’s Add Them Up

a reply to: DJW001



It's only the past dozen years that really count.


I expected similar answer...

Was it written in the Budapest Memorandum that the US can overthrow a democratically elected government in Ukraine?



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 09:46 AM
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a reply to: maghun


Why not name it self-burning?


Why not call it what it was: a Russian false flag. Do you really believe someone threw a Molotov cocktail all the way to the third floor?



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 09:47 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter
a reply to: Xcathdra
West wants to isolate Russia, to divide it and allow its natural resources to be exploited by the business that dictates American foreign policy. Hence the reason for the US supported Maidan coup in Kiev.


Funny... you seem to think Ukraine is a part of Russia. You really need to brush up on your history. Oh, and Assad is a secularist in name only. He is an Alawite, and favors his fellow Alawites in governmental and military appointments. The Alawites are a minority in Syria, which is why he is unpopular with the Sunni majority. His goal seems to be to reduce the Sunni population so that the Alawites become the majority sect. Russia seems happy to help.


Come on man. You have to be really naive to think that the US is in Syria for any other reason than geopolitical hegemony. The US has been ONLY engaging in military actions since the Korean War for exactly that, geo-political power. Syria and Iran are not only allies of Russia but two of the few blocks to Western power in the ME region. Syria also has Russia's only military naval port outside of former USSR satellites. That port is key for Russia. The goal of western policy is to knock out all proxies and challenges to complete domination. Libya is already gone. Iraq is gone. Syria is in the cross hairs, and then most likely Iran.

Boom.



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 09:59 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

Democratic ukrainian molotovs? Russian agents:





the third floor


There were Right Sector thugs in the building before the attack.



Ukrainian lawyer and well-known pro-Kiev activist, now ukrainian hero:

A Reader Names the Odessa Thug From Yesterday's Bombshell Video



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 10:06 AM
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a reply to: maghun

Why don't we return to the actual topic of the thread? Ron Paul is no different than the isolationists who wanted Nazism and Communism to destroy each other in what you would call "the Great Patriotic War."



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 10:22 AM
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originally posted by: rickymouse
We don't have to worry, congressmen probably have a big bunker under their office buildings on capital hill. Our leadership will survive a nuclear war.


They can have it all as far as I'm concerned.

And they will have to live in the world they created.



Hopefully if that happens all of us will be at ground zero and moved on to a better plane of being.



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 10:25 AM
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a reply to: DJW001


Why don't we return to the actual topic of the thread?


The topic is: ‘US provoking war with Russia, could result in total destruction’

The Maidan Snipers Massacre (democratic revolution), the Odessa Massacre, the Mariupol Massacre, the Lugansk bombing, the MH17 downing, the use of cluster bombs, ballistic missiles, white phosphorus and heavy artillery are all US provocations.

How long will the ukrainians accept their old-new millionaire leaders? The last nail in the coffin of "independent ukraine" is the unconstitutional move of the chocolate king poroshenko to appoint foreigners as ukrainian ministers.

Independent country?

Ukraine's Truly Foreign Ministers

The biggest joke is this:


The open part of the meeting was held in Ukrainian, but when the government passed to the closed part of its meeting Yatsenyuk had to speak different languages. At first he started speaking English and finally passed to Russian. Health Minister Alexander Kvitashvili, an ethnic Georgian, who lacks Ukrainian language skills made the premier take this step, the daily reported.


Ukrainian governemnt switches to Russian language for minister-foreigner's sake — media



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 11:07 AM
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a reply to: maghun




Lavrov: Why don’t the BBC and CNN show "Russian troops in Ukraine"?


Does anyone think that Putin would be dumb enough to just let his troops where their Russian uniforms while fighting in Ukraine?

Someone should remind Lavrov of this...


Ukraine crisis: Russian mothers of killed and captured soldiers ask 'why are our sons fighting in Ukraine?'


www.independent.co.uk... raine-9701805.html



Reckless Congress 'Declares War' on Russia



This has it's own thread and you should actually read the resolution, because nowhere in it does it even say anything about declaring war on Russia, nor is it even hinted at in the bill.

It condems the actions of Putin over Ukraine and nothing more.

Here you go...

www.congress.gov...



Was it written in the Budapest Memorandum that the US can overthrow a democratically elected government in Ukraine?


Remind me again when the US sent troops over to overthrow a corrupt government in Ukraine...oh wait they didn't but the citizens of Ukraine did after being lied to and stolen from.

As far as the Budapest Memorandum...Russia violated that when they sent armed troops into Crimea.


2. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or

political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations;


Also...


3. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind;


www.cfr.org...

That is 2 within the first 3 requirements of the memorandum, and the 3rd one Putin was doing when Yanukovych was in office and was going to sign the EU deal.



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 11:19 AM
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a reply to: maghun




The Maidan Snipers Massacre (democratic revolution), the Odessa Massacre, the Mariupol Massacre, the Lugansk bombing, the MH17 downing, the use of cluster bombs, ballistic missiles, white phosphorus and heavy artillery are all US provocations.


I would love to see you back these claims up without using Russian media for a source.



How long will the ukrainians accept their old-new millionaire leaders? The last nail in the coffin of "independent ukraine" is the unconstitutional move of the chocolate king poroshenko to appoint foreigners as ukrainian ministers.


And you do understand that the American he chose is of Ukranian decent, so she actually has as much right to that as the separatist have to Russia even though they aren't from Russia but are from relatives who were. Or does that only work one way?



Ukrainian governemnt switches to Russian language for minister-foreigner's sake — media


And you have a problem with that, why?

Someone who doesn't speak Ukraine needs to be told in the language he understands, you know the thing others do when you travel to different countries where you don't understand their language...it's called being courteous.



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 11:48 AM
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We're all screwed. America has been writing checks it can't cash for decades and Putin is saying enough is enough. As long as we continue to allow our government to poke the Russian bear with our foreign policy stick, we're all in danger of annihilation. We the people need to hold our government accountable and rise up when their actions put our lives at risk. But hey, that'd be a lot of work and I'd have to get off the couch and quit posting replies to threads on ATS. Eh, think I'll just order a pizza and watch Game of Thrones.



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 12:48 PM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: maghun

Why don't we return to the actual topic of the thread? Ron Paul is no different than the isolationists who wanted Nazism and Communism to destroy each other in what you would call "the Great Patriotic War."


Hmmm interesting. Let me just cut to the chase: Do you actually think that the gov or leaders who want to continue intervening are doing so for anything other than geo-political hegemony?

The illusion that we are fighting for freedom or democracy is a lie.

This doesn't make Putin a saint. But it is important for people to know the history and have a realistic view of the situation.



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 12:53 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h



and the 3rd one Putin was doing when Yanukovych was in office


Sovereignty? Who is "Yats" today?


“Recall the phone exchange between the Ukraine ambassador and Victoria Nuland (Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs) that got leaked out, where she basically said ‘we want Yats in there.’ They like him because he’s pro Western,” says Vladimir Signorelli, president of boutique investment research firm Bretton Woods Research LLC in New Jersey. “Yatsenyuk is the the kind of technocrat you want if you want austerity, with the veneer of professionalism,” Signorelli said. “He’s the type of guy who can hobnob with the European elite. A Mario Monti type: unelected and willing to do the IMFs bidding,” he said.


Washington's Man Yatsenyuk Setting Ukraine Up For Ruin

a reply to: tsurfer2000h



without using Russian media


Please show me just one ukrainian (or international) investigation with results about those horrible events mentioned above!

One example, if a Reuters report is acceptable for you:


Relatives of MH17 crash victims, angered by what they see as Dutch mishandling of inquiries into the disaster, want a special U.N. envoy to launch an international investigation.

A letter sent to Prime Minister Mark Rutte on Friday, a copy of which was seen by Reuters, said Dutch officials had failed to build a case. They asked that inquiries by the Safety Board and prosecution service be handed over to the United Nations.

Rutte should "request the U.N. to appoint a special envoy to take over," said the letter written by Van der Goen Attorneys.


Angry families of MH17 crash victims seek U.N. investigation



And you have a problem with that, why?


You're an expert on the Ukraine issue.

The genocide of the Russians started in the east after a referendum about the "official language" in schools... In the forever Russian Crimea (acknowledged by China and NATO-member Turkey) there are three official languages. In "independent european" ukraine only the ukrainian is "official".



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 12:53 PM
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Of course they're provoking WW3. Catastrophic global warfare is a tried-and-true method of restructuring the world economy. When you're talking about trillions of dollars, there is no such thing as "paying it off".

The die is cast and the time is nigh. Killing your creditors (and/or competition) is the ultimate form of debt relief.

They could probably just reset everything with a few keystrokes, but then everyone would know the whole thing is a sick joke. So, war. It perpetuates the lie that their fake money (what "money" isn't?) is actually important.



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