$15 Min Wage Case Study Rant

a reply to: sirlancelot

Ok, let me get this straight. You think that regardless of currency inflation, people working minimum wage should always make the same amount?

If the cost of everything doubles, you think they should continue to make the same amount with no increase?

You do realize this would be the same as cutting their pay in half right? Each day the value of a dollar goes down due to inflation. How can you justify reducing the pay of minimum wage workers? They are not the ones causing inflation. They are not the ones who set what food costs are going to be next week. They are not the ones increasing the price of everything, every month and every year. They are the ones who have to somehow manage to stretch their measly pay even further each month as the costs of living go up.

If you believe people should be forced to suffer so that you can get a crappy burger for cheap, then you are no better than a slave owner. You expect people you perceive as less than you to suffer so that you can have the luxury you are used to, and I have zero respect for that kind of thinking. Every human deserves a living wage. PERIOD. Paying anything less than a living wage is tantamount to running a sweatshop and I challenge you to try and justify sweatshops in any country, let alone the USA.

I will reiterate my previous statement: a business does not HAVE to increase prices to offset the pay increase, the would do so by choice to protect their record setting profit and insane ceo salaries. If the businesses that rely on minimum wage employees were to allow their profit and ceo salaries to go down 1%, they could afford to pay their employees $15 an hour without any price increases. Who is really the greedy one here, the people struggling to survive, or those making millions of dollars a year off of minimum wage labor?

low end jobs were never meant to support an entire family they were meant only to be a supplemental employment or a job for the young to learn hard work and savings ethics. These low end jobs were never meant to be a carrier unless you were desiring to get into management.

a reply to: sirlancelot


Facts - any kind of facts.

Your source is about one company that's already paying their workers $15.00/hour.

Minimum wage workers may not be the largest segment of the working population but that's were the job growth is.

a reply to: ProfessorChaos

No, I don't realize that's what would happen at all. I have already proven in my first post that the price of a large big Mac meal is about the same price in the US as in Australia, even though Australia has the highest minimum wage in the world and is over double that of the US minimum.

Big Mac Index

Notice in this link the price of a big mac in the US is $4.80, yet only $4.81 in Australia.

It also costs far less to bring the product from farm to table in the US since they produce a lot of there own fuel, where as we import nearly all of ours. Yet the price of basic food items (a loaf of bread for example) also remains relative.

You can use the old cliche of saying minimum wage isn't meant to support a family. Well yeah obviously! I really don't see how $7.25 an hour could even support a single childless person still living there parents to be honest. But it won't change the fact that many people are left with no choice but to support a family on minimum wage. Well, the rich just sit back and pocket the profits.

I graduated from university in the first year of the recession and nobody was taking on newbies. I had to get whatever jobs in order to pay rent.

I worked in a well known pizza place for 4 years and had keys to the store and worked from 8am-5pm alone with one delivery driver. I had to run round like a lunatic to answer phones, make pizzas, tend to the ovens, prep food, put away large deliveries, take all the temp checks so I don't poison you, keep everything spotless etc for 6p above minimum wage whilst the store makes 50% profit a day.

One large pizza was triple my hourly wage...what the hell?

I contributed to keeping there labor costs down doing something that should require at least 3 people. Can you imagine what it's like when you are alone in a store because your drivers are doing deliveries and you are expected to answer the phone in one ring, greet any walk in customers straight away and get the pizza in the oven in under 3 minutes whilst you have no control over web orders popping up.

It was not something some dumb teenager could do in there spare time but there are plenty of people out there willing and ready to replace you.
The delivery drivers who were mostly students had to use their own cars, answer phones and do cleaning in between deliveries. Every few months there cars would break down and it came out of there pocket.

I mean this company must be seriously laughing at us whilst other people put us down telling us we deserve to struggle and be used as slave labor due to our terrible life choices.

originally posted by: sirlancelot
Source

Ok so this burger joint is paying employees $15 per hour. We all are seeing a push for a $15 min wage and on the surface it seems like it could make sense.

So curiously I checked the companies menu and for a cheeseburger, fries, and a drink it will cost $13.00.

So ok this is probably a damn good urger and fries but let's project that to McDonalds, Burger King, etc.

Obviously labor cost will get passed through to the consumer and the people that will be hurt most by this is the poor and middle income people and families.

My position is min wage only accounts for a few percent of those working so an increase to $15.00 per hour so that 100% of America can and will pay more makes no sense to me.

What am I missing?

The bigger picture. The anti minimum wage folks have a simplistic approach to economics (burger price = wage level). What you have to do is to take account of the whole economy. In this context you also need to take account of discrepencies between the highest and lowest (must reduce), the secondary effect of more disposable income in the hands of people who tend to spend it (the rich don't spend they hoard it and stash it away where it has ZERO stimulus effect). This is why quantitative easing does not work as we are told since it is in the hands of the rich/banks who stash it away as a "slush fund"....you may have noticed !!!!!!. Whereas the same amount of money distributed via welfare (sharp intake of breathe, right wingers get your valium) goes directly into the economy as people spend it on basic stuff, food clothes etc. This stimulates the economy and thus promotes growth. The other stimulus is infrastructure spending ie borrow to build and pay back with increased tax revenues from the subsequent economic growth (The right wingers hate this with a passion).

Look at the table of nominal GDP per capita and see where the high welfare high tax economies are ........above the USA !!!!!

originally posted by: xDeadcowx
Most people are paying well over $1000/month just in rent, add in cost of utilities and food and you have a bill that can't be paid working 80 hours a week at the current minimum wage.

thats bull. maybe in a big city like new york but other than that most people do not pay that much.
where i live it is far from rural and i have never paid even close to that much.
totally wrong on that.


and lol to the person that said mcnasty and wal mart work their people to the bone. thats a hoot if i ever heard one.
most of the employees are part time which is under 32 hours a week.
how is that working to the bone?
get back to me when they do 70 hour weeks and/or 25 days straight...
they have no idea what it is like to work to the bone.

i too dont get why crappy choices and poor performance is rewarded.
just a slap in the face to everyone else that actually does work to the bone.

those are minimum wage jobs all day long.
and not at no $15 an hour either...im thinking half that.

poor them if they cant pay their rent.
hows that my fault? nobody is making them work at mcdonalds.

also, we act like all those workers are just trying oh so hard and college grads who cant get other work...
thats a load too.

a good deal of those fast food workers are felons that cant get jobs anywhere else.

my # head brother in laws girl friend of sorts works at mcnasty.
she did 5 years for posession of coc aine and a weapons charge.
she also has 3 dui's and has never had a license...

poor her...poor felon cant get a better job...let double her pay

originally posted by: xDeadcowx
a reply to: sirlancelot

Ok, let me get this straight. You think that regardless of currency inflation, people working minimum wage should always make the same amount?

If the cost of everything doubles, you think they should continue to make the same amount with no increase?

You do realize this would be the same as cutting their pay in half right? Each day the value of a dollar goes down due to inflation. How can you justify reducing the pay of minimum wage workers? They are not the ones causing inflation. They are not the ones who set what food costs are going to be next week. They are not the ones increasing the price of everything, every month and every year. They are the ones who have to somehow manage to stretch their measly pay even further each month as the costs of living go up.

If you believe people should be forced to suffer so that you can get a crappy burger for cheap, then you are no better than a slave owner. You expect people you perceive as less than you to suffer so that you can have the luxury you are used to, and I have zero respect for that kind of thinking. Every human deserves a living wage. PERIOD. Paying anything less than a living wage is tantamount to running a sweatshop and I challenge you to try and justify sweatshops in any country, let alone the USA.

I will reiterate my previous statement: a business does not HAVE to increase prices to offset the pay increase, the would do so by choice to protect their record setting profit and insane ceo salaries. If the businesses that rely on minimum wage employees were to allow their profit and ceo salaries to go down 1%, they could afford to pay their employees $15 an hour without any price increases. Who is really the greedy one here, the people struggling to survive, or those making millions of dollars a year off of minimum wage labor?

I already posted that I think there needs to be a increase in min wage but an across the board doubling of min wage will have negative impacts.

A company like McDonalds if forced to pay $15 per hour will fight loosing profits. The will automate more and technology is making that easier to implement, they will hire less, and they will increase prices, they may serve smaller portions, buy food stuff from places that are cheaper (less qquality)

We all know that corporations covet profits over people. It's naive to think they will do the right think and eat the higher labor expense without trying to minimize somewhere in the process of delivering that burger.

Here is another though. Companies forced to pay min wage for full time employees may reduce the employee to part time, reduce or eliminate health benefits, not allow for free food. All of that will end of off setting the benefit in hourly wage.

With all the above we all will pay more. Food at the grocery store already is going up and if you bump everyone up to $15. since corporations are greedy cost will go up. That increase will affect those very people this change would seek to help.

II still stand by idea that if you want more in life you need to use discipline and consistency to achieve your dreams, not have it handed to you.

The economy would improve immensely if everyone on the bottom was making a living wage. Luckily I don't have to work in fast food but many people don't have a choice, literally, regardless of their educational choices. The fact of the matter is that fast food is a HUGE part of the American economy... imagine (since we're still pre-large scale automation) that everyone quit their fast food jobs or went on strike for a week, hell even just a day... that would be a huge gut punch to our economy.

Maybe instead of sneering at burger flippers, people should be thinking about how vital they are to the economy.

Anyone who works deserves a living wage.
You may all look down on people who do not earn a lot but in my book anyone who puts 100% in their job deserves that living wage
.
We are all cogs in the wheel and if you think everyone can goto school and better themselves you are wrong.
We don't have the skilled jobs out there fir everyone.
Heck I know people with uni degrees who have had to take a min wage job.

a reply to: rukia

Your country must be very different to mine firstly our fast food base workers do get US 15 dollars an hour here and civilisation has not ended and in this country you work damn hard for that money lazy people do not survive in a KFC or Mc Donalds here . I would only be too happy to hire an ex Mc Donalds manager in Australia as they are well trained with a quite respectable business acumen and work ethic.

Even if everyone worked hard and went to college, someone still needs to stock shelves, make pizza/other fast food, drive cabs and be waitresses/waiters. Quit looking down on these people and assume that they deserve to live in poverty. Believe it or not, there are veterans that are working at McDonalds because they can't find anything else, there are college graduates working at McDonalds because there's nothing else.

I don't think that the minimum wage should be raised to $15.00, but $10.00 (FOR EVERYONE ON MINIMUM WAGE) is more reasonable. No one deserves to be suffering in this country. No one should be just out of college/going to college and living on a diet of speghetti-os because they can't afford anything else. No one should be working 40+ hours a week to pay bills, and question where their meals are going to come from.


Those of you against raising the minimum wage need to get off your high horse. There are people who do the same if not more work than you (Be it different kinds of work) and are being paid significantly less than you. Grow up.

And besides, raising the minimum wage could do pretty awesome things. Think about it... People feel like their work is worth it, they work harder, make more money, spend more money... You'd be amazed the sort of things that happen when people actually feel appreciated.

a reply to: sirlancelot

Most burger joints are owned, not by the big corporation who's name it shares, but by smaller companies or person(s). The burger corporations get most of their profits from distribution sales.

Raising the minimum wage would hurt the profits on small/local buisness owners - to include those burger joints.

If the minimum wage was to increase to 15 an hour, you'll see less burger joints. You'll see less 24 hour places. The likelihood of stores being open 7 days a week would also disappear.

The minimum wage increase wouldn't just affect the lowly minimum wage earners, but those who make less than 15 an hour now. It would also effect those who make a few bucks above that.

If you were to make 40 hours a week with 15 an hour is about 31,200 a year.

31,200 a year to flip burgers or to ask me if I want fries with that...is dumb.

A nurse starting out (after a paid education) gets about 35K a year.

Seen teachers salaries starting at 33k a year...

If any nitwit thinks that a minimum wage increase wouldn't effect the pay tiers above it needs to pull their heads out.

originally posted by: ChuckNasty
a reply to: sirlancelot
If the minimum wage was to increase to 15 an hour, you'll see less burger joints. You'll see less 24 hour places. The likelihood of stores being open 7 days a week would also disappear.

Unless your able to explain why other countries don't suffer from these effects from paying there workers over $15 an hour, then you have no right to make these unfounded claims.

originally posted by: xDeadcowx
a reply to: sirlancelot

Ok, let me get this straight. You think that regardless of currency inflation, people working minimum wage should always make the same amount?

If the cost of everything doubles, you think they should continue to make the same amount with no increase?

You do realize this would be the same as cutting their pay in half right? Each day the value of a dollar goes down due to inflation. How can you justify reducing the pay of minimum wage workers? They are not the ones causing inflation. They are not the ones who set what food costs are going to be next week. They are not the ones increasing the price of everything, every month and every year. They are the ones who have to somehow manage to stretch their measly pay even further each month as the costs of living go up.

If you believe people should be forced to suffer so that you can get a crappy burger for cheap, then you are no better than a slave owner. You expect people you perceive as less than you to suffer so that you can have the luxury you are used to, and I have zero respect for that kind of thinking. Every human deserves a living wage. PERIOD. Paying anything less than a living wage is tantamount to running a sweatshop and I challenge you to try and justify sweatshops in any country, let alone the USA.

I will reiterate my previous statement: a business does not HAVE to increase prices to offset the pay increase, the would do so by choice to protect their record setting profit and insane ceo salaries. If the businesses that rely on minimum wage employees were to allow their profit and ceo salaries to go down 1%, they could afford to pay their employees $15 an hour without any price increases. Who is really the greedy one here, the people struggling to survive, or those making millions of dollars a year off of minimum wage labor?

I agree min wage needs to go up but not doubled. Paying a burger flipper $31,000 per year will have so many negative impacts for us all. Many educated professionals barely make that and they went to school to EARN it.

As I have already stated I have worked in Fast food and realized it sucked, got a degree while working, bettered myself, found a career path and worked 12 hours day to learn so I could EARN what I was worth.

Giving a handout to un deserving people who don't deserve it make no sense. Call me a slave owner if you would like but my position is TAKE RESPONSIBILITY and EARN IT!

originally posted by: drock905
a reply to: sirlancelot

And what happens if they can't "earn"it? Not everyone is able to go school especially when they are so beat from working jobs with zero advancment and a 7.25 wage. At least In the past if you were a dedicated and hard worker you could climb up to at least a livable wage.

Maybe we should just grind up the poor and use them as fertilizer?

What a cop out. I didn't have a silver spoon, had to work and go to school at the same time, educated myself, got a opportunity, worked 12 hours a day and after years of consistent discipline made something of myself. Go ahead and make excuses for those that don't want to EARN it.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: ChuckNasty
a reply to: sirlancelot
If the minimum wage was to increase to 15 an hour, you'll see less burger joints. You'll see less 24 hour places. The likelihood of stores being open 7 days a week would also disappear.

Unless your able to explain why other countries don't suffer from these effects from paying there workers over $15 an hour, then you have no right to make these unfounded claims.

How many countries pay 15 USD (equivalent), or more, minimum wage? The number might surprise you.

You should re-read the part where I recommend one to pull-their-head-out.

originally posted by: sirlancelot

originally posted by: drock905
a reply to: sirlancelot

And what happens if they can't "earn"it? Not everyone is able to go school especially when they are so beat from working jobs with zero advancment and a 7.25 wage. .

oh well by all means just double their wage then...
yeah, thats fair?
what about the people that are beat from working 70 hours a week?
gonna double their wage too?

#, if it is a good enough reason to double fry guy's wage, i want in.

seems to me like nothing but excuses.
they cant cause of their wage. cause of this and that.
how ever do people like myself and sirlancelot do it then?
we managed. other people can too

originally posted by: ChuckNasty

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: ChuckNasty
a reply to: sirlancelot
If the minimum wage was to increase to 15 an hour, you'll see less burger joints. You'll see less 24 hour places. The likelihood of stores being open 7 days a week would also disappear.

Unless your able to explain why other countries don't suffer from these effects from paying there workers over $15 an hour, then you have no right to make these unfounded claims.

How many countries pay 15 USD (equivalent), or more, minimum wage? The number might surprise you.

You should re-read the part where I recommend one to pull-their-head-out.

The US is basically number one when it comes to wealth in everyway (average wage, wealthiest country, most billionaires ect....), yet when it comes to minimum wage they are 13th. How can anyone possibly justify that?

The United States of America, the undistributed number one country for freedom & wealth. But wait........ The lower class are forced to work on 3rd world wages. Obviously there's something wrong with how the wealth is being distributed.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

oh so dramatic.
i didnt know 3rd world countries paid $8 US an hour.
hmmmmm.
learn something new every day