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Angry families of MH17 crash victims seek U.N. investigation

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posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 08:48 AM
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Here is one of the original media outlets from Ukraine discussing the agreement.


translated by google -
NATIONAL: Boeing 777 crash investigation Results will be made public by consent of the parties

Pay attention -

Ukraine, the Netherlands, Australia and Belgium on August 8 have signed an agreement not to disclose information obtained during the investigation.


"during the investigation". During being the key phrase.

Origonal source not translated.


The issue you guys seem to have is the sources reporting on the "conspiracy" are coming from global research, alex jones and some bloggers, who are also stating the US knows it was shot down by an air to air missile.


As I stated it deals with information being prohibited from release during the investigation. It does not allow a nation to block the investigation. It does not allow a nation to veto criminal prosecution.

You should also note in the bulk of the sources reporting on this that they (the people reporting on it and not government officials) are using terms like "their intent" and "we must assume". The simple fact Alex Jones is involved in terms of the agreement speaks volumes.

The only source that is being used were the comments made by the speaker of the General Prosecutor Yuri Boychenko (Ukraine).


Preliminary Report - DSB - This is a pdf link.


Dec 10 2014 - Dirty politics over MH17?

FOIA request to the Australian government -


Note the sections on criminal prosecution -

"As with all criminal investigations, the non-disclosure of information is important to avoid jeopardizing the investigation or prejudicing a future judicial proceeding arising from the investigation."

Bias from the reporter?source

This UNIAN report said that, “As part of the four-party agreement signed on August 8 between Ukraine, the Netherlands, Belgium and Australia [all of which nations are allies of the United States and are cooperating with its new Cold War against Russia], information on the investigation into the disaster Malaysian ‘Boeing-777’ will not be disclosed.”’


A single line comment from a person from the prosecutors office in Ukraine was twisted by... wait for it.... Russia media.


Here is a novel idea since we are obviously not going agree on this topic -
Lets see how the criminal investigation, which is now getting underway, goes and go from there.

If Ukraine brought the plane down do you really think nations who lost citizens are going to let it go? Especially the Dutch?

I don't think for one minute the countries would let the death of their nationals be swept under the rug to protect Ukraine.

What I find ironic is how you guys bitch and moan about countries rushing to blame Russia for the shoot down while doing the very same thing with regards to this story - rushing to a conclusion without all of the facts.
edit on 14-12-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 10:35 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra



I don't think for one minute the countries would let the death of their nationals be swept under the rug to protect Ukraine.


That`s because you`re completely clueless about how The Dutch government acts.

As a few examples, they supported Iraq war political, they supported Libya bombing, they were second only after France to wanting to bomb Assad last year together with the US, they have been in full support about what has been happening in the Ukraine and are now also really happy in bombing IS which only has the reason to oust Assad later on.

What ever the US wants, The Netherlands does with unbridled enthusiasm.
edit on 14 12 2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 12:05 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I see you once again failed to read and understand my posts, not to mention your blind bias.

Feel free to support your lies about the Dutch and mh17.

edit on 14-12-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 12:26 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

I`m Dutch, so I know exactly what my government does, I have been following it for decades. But just as with the non disclosure agreement, again you try to me it look like you know what is going on...

...well who`s actual assuming, you or me ?



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 01:07 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




I`m Dutch, so I know exactly what my government does


Sure you do, as that is what everyone thinks.




But just as with the non disclosure agreement, again you try to me it look like you know what is going on...


Here's a question for you...

When police do investigations are you able to see what they found regarding evidence before it goes to court?

And especially if your not involved in that investigation?



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 01:21 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




As a few examples, they supported Iraq war political, they supported Libya bombing, they were second only after France to wanting to bomb Assad last year together with the US, they have been in full support about what has been happening in the Ukraine and are now also really happy in bombing IS which only has the reason to oust Assad later on.


Could that be because they see what is happening and do not agree with it, something many people refuse to actually understand?

The only reason to oust Assad...really?

I believe what he has done to his own people would be enough to have him ousted...


Then, on August 21, Assad’s regime used the nerve gas sarin to kill hundreds of Syrian civilians, crossing the “red line”


www.newrepublic.com...

But hey what's a few hundred of your own people, when you look at the big picture...right?



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 01:51 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h



Sure you do, as that is what everyone thinks.


Finally you see say something which is true, there`s not one who knows me physical would say that`s otherwise.



When police do investigations are you able to see what they found regarding evidence before it goes to court?

And especially if your not involved in that investigation?


Making the agreement public doesn`t effect the investigation, because it isn`t evidence, so evidence is not revealed to the public.



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 01:53 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Assad did not order Syria chemical weapons attack, says German press

Bild am Sonntag cites high-level German surveillance source suggesting Syrian president was not personally behind attacks

Source



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 03:10 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

No you don't know exactly what your government does just as I don't know everything my government does.

I've posted my sources supporting my position. I do law enforcement and have the training and understanding of how investigations on western jurisprudence works. Ive used the very sources that people on your side of the fence posted and demonstrated those article don't support the veto all and hide everything bs.

What have you shown to support your side of the story?



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 03:58 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra



No you don't know exactly what your government does just as I don't know everything my government does.


I do know it, because it`s in our news.

War in Iraq

Syria

IS



I've posted my sources supporting my position. I do law enforcement and have the training and understanding of how investigations on western jurisprudence works.


That makes it even worse to keep making the suggestion that showing the public what is in the agreement has any influence on the investigation.

I already posted that our Minister of Security and Justice keeps dodging the question about if the Ukraine has veto power over evidence, and also that there are sources (in the Hague) who say there it exists. And the political sources who are used by RTL are always very solid, our press is not comparable to the US, they are much more professional, biased though, but of much better quality as CNN, FOX, etc.

Agreement

All you do is keep repeating the same crappy statement which comes from the Ministry of Justice and Security, while the boss himself keeps dodging the answer...very trustworthy don`t you think?


edit on 14 12 2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 01:26 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Your source on the investigation is the very info I posted and supports my position, not yours.


The agreements' write consensus between the parties before information concerning the investigation public. Because compliance is a prerequisite, all countries have therefore a veto. The Australian Department of Foreign Affairs confirmed to Yahoo! News that the document is "authentic" . "It's non-disclosure of information is important not to jeopardize the investigation, and not to hinder future criminal prosecution under investigation. ''


So no you apparently don't know what your government does.

Nothing in the discussion deals with the middle east so im not sure why you feel the need to derail threads by posting it.

edit on 15-12-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 01:32 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

You know what made me laugh, "I do law enforcement" and you`re not even able to recognize evidence when it`s presented.



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 01:59 AM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: Xcathdra

You know what made me laugh, "I do law enforcement" and you`re not even able to recognize evidence when it`s presented.


Sure I am... Evidence however does not mean an absolute and is weighed when compared to other facts. As an example there is evidence I know what I am talking about based on my background and there is evidence you do not understand it based on your background. Why are you not able to recognize that evidence when presented?

If you spent some time researching and less time attacking you might actually understand whats going on. You would understand why info is not released during the investigation.

There is an investigative term called a leap of logic.

If you walk into a persons house and see cigarettes and an ashtray on the counter the response is usually "the person who lives in this residence smokes".

The problem is the presence of those items does not mean the people who reside there smoke. The items could belong to a visitor, a careless burglar, found outside and brought into the house to dispose of etc.

So yes I know what evidence is where as you fail to completely understand it.



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 02:16 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




Source


And this says differently...


President Bashar al-Assad is still using chemical weapons against civilians, a scientific analysis of samples from multiple gas attacks has shown.
In the first independent testing of its kind, conducted exclusively for The Telegraph, soil samples from the scene of three recent attacks in the country were collected by trained individuals known to this news organisation and analysed by a chemical warfare expert.


www.telegraph.co.uk... -on-children.html

Funny how you have a problem with western media when it goes against your mindset, yet when you think it agrees with you it is good to use for a source...amazing.



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 02:21 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




You know what made me laugh, "I do law enforcement" and you`re not even able to recognize evidence when it`s presented


And you do?

THere is more than overwhelming evidence that Russia invaded Ukraine took over Crimea, and is backing the separatists with troops and weapons and yet you still don't recognize the evidence of this happening...so talking about someone else not recognizing evidence is laughable.
edit on 15-12-2014 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 09:07 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Why is Malaysia being excluded from the group?



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 10:08 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Is all coming from you nowadays throwing things back on my plate, instead of actual coming with your own things ?

...running around in circles makes me dizzy.

edit on 15 12 2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 10:17 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

so where is this report then?


In a question-and-answer section on its website, the DSB posed the question of whether it would be publicly releasing the content from the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder which comprise the two black boxes.

The answer given by the board was: "Investigative materials and sources of information used by the DSB in its investigations are protected by law.

"Only information relevant to determining the cause of the MH17 crash will be included in the final report.

www.mirror.co.uk...


right ...protected by law?
jurisprusdence
where was the jurisprudence when everone was blaming Putin

if Putin did it they would have released the proof already.. if nothing else to justify the nato countries the US and Canada and also the Ukraine's PRO Nazi vote at the UN from general perusal

so for the thousandth time:

Regarding what caused the downing of the Malaysian airliner MH-17 in Ukraine on July 17th, the Ukrainian news agency UNIAN, reported in a brief Russian-language news story on August 12th, that four days earlier (August 8th) a representative of that nation’s Prosecutor General office, Yuri Boychenko, had said that (as auto-translated by google), “the results [of the investigation] will be announced upon completion of the investigation and with the consent of all the parties who signed the corresponding agreement.”
www.washingtonsblog.com...


edit on Monam12b201412America/Chicago08 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

edit on Monam12b201412America/Chicago49 by Danbones because: added quote and fixed links and quote box



posted on Dec, 16 2014 @ 01:07 AM
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originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: Xcathdra

Why is Malaysia being excluded from the group?



My guess would be because of their behavior on the other MH crash. They fouled up the investigation right out of the shoot and it only got worse from there. You had government official's making comments to the media that were contradictory in nature.

With this being the 2nd incident for this airline I would guess that Malaysia may not have been accepting of the non disclosure portion during the investigation. 2 incident for the airline company... 2nd incident dealing with Malaysia. They have cause to release information in an effort to shore up support for the airline and the government.

As I sated before and in other threads - You will always have a country / group involved in a serious incident where the only fallout for them is the political ramifications and not criminal.

The criminal portion is key for the agreement.



posted on Dec, 16 2014 @ 01:27 AM
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originally posted by: Danbones
so where is this report then?


This post here at the top of this page

The released report was solely looking at how the aircraft came down. It was not the criminal portion of the investigation. The criminal investigation is on going.





originally posted by: Danbones
right ...protected by law?
jurisprusdence
where was the jurisprudence when everone was blaming Putin


Where was it when Russia accused Ukraine? Where was it when Russia changed wiki entries blaming Ukraine?

Yes jurisprudence. A term people should be familiar with and if they are not they should learn about it.

Protected by agreement during the criminal investigation.





originally posted by: Danbones
if Putin did it they would have released the proof already.. if nothing else to justify the nato countries the US and Canada and also the Ukraine's PRO Nazi vote at the UN from general perusal

No they wouldn't. They would make sure everything is in order before they make that official. Why tip Putin off for a criminal investigation? You don't help people circle the wagon. Secondly, as many people like using the term, evidence will be required to support the accusation.

Dutch are more concerned with finding out what happened that resulted in the deaths of many citizens rather than addressing the political bs Russia throws around.

Which, again, goes to why information wont be released during the investigation. There will always be times where the suspects got sloppy and left incriminating evidence behind. You don't share that information so it cant be destroyed or written off.




originally posted by: Danbones
so for the thousandth time:

Regarding what caused the downing of the Malaysian airliner MH-17 in Ukraine on July 17th, the Ukrainian news agency UNIAN, reported in a brief Russian-language news story on August 12th, that four days earlier (August 8th) a representative of that nation’s Prosecutor General office, Yuri Boychenko, had said that (as auto-translated by google), “the results [of the investigation] will be announced upon completion of the investigation and with the consent of all the parties who signed the corresponding agreement.”
www.washingtonsblog.com...


and for the thousandth time read the info contained here to find out how this agreement portrayal came about -

Here - www.abovetopsecret.com...

Courtesy of one Ukrainian official making a comment that was twisted by Russian media.


Note the sections on criminal prosecution -
"As with all criminal investigations, the non-disclosure of information is important to avoid jeopardizing the investigation or prejudicing a future judicial proceeding arising from the investigation."





edit on 16-12-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



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