Do you want GOD'S intervention?

a reply to: AgentShillington

I'm still caught on the "god" who comes to slaughter people....and we should welcome this why? If god shows up and murders people (no matter the reasoning) I really want to know why this equates into reverence and acceptance.

originally posted by: AgentShillington

originally posted by: Tangerine
Actually, Jesus didn't say that. One of the men who wrote the Bible said it. It was written multiple generations after Jesus allegedly lived (there is no historical evidence that he did live) by someone who never heard him say anything.

You aren't going to win any arguments with that logic. The people that believe Jesus said that actually BELIEVE Jesus said that. I believe Jesus said it, too. In the Bible, which is the story of Jesus. It would be like someone not believing Harry Potter had a scar on his forehead because he wasn't a real person. Nope, in the book he has a scar on his forehead, and in the Bible, Jesus said...

Matthew 18:20
"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them."

That's not up for debate. It's in the book. The character of Jesus said this thing. The issue isn't whether he said it, the issue is whether or not you believe that it means anything outside of the confines of the pages of the book.

The poster didn't say, "The storybook character Jesus said....". The poster said, "Jesus said...." It was reasonable to conclude that the poster was making a claim of fact and the quote was intended to have great significance. It's far different to have a discussion about what Harry Potter said when everyone involved in the discussion agrees that Harry Potter is a fictional character and the discussion is about a book of fiction.

I have a policy of pretending that Santa and the Easter Bunny exist when small children talk about them. I have a policy of not pretending that mythological figures exist when adults make claims of fact implying their existence. I see no reason to change either policy. In this case, the poster was making an implied claim that a person named Jesus actually lived on earth. Such claims should be backed by contemporaneous documentation (ie. historical evidence) before they're taken seriously. In two thousand years, not an iota of contemporaneous documentation has been produced proving that Jesus actually lived. Not one person who lived when Jesus allegedly lived so much as wrote a letter saying, "Saw Jesus at the well today. He has some cool new sandals." Nothing. Nada. Zip. Why, then, should I accept that this person actually existed and said the things that people claim he said? Note that I am not denying people their right to believe anything. I am talking about them making claims of fact not statements of belief.

originally posted by: DuckforcoveR
a reply to: AgentShillington

I'm still caught on the "god" who comes to slaughter people....and we should welcome this why? If god shows up and murders people (no matter the reasoning) I really want to know why this equates into reverence and acceptance.

I think the assumption is that God is only going to kill the people whom the person making the claim dislikes. In other words, there's a belief that God is on his side and can be called upon to do his bidding. Delusions of grandeur are likely involved.

a reply to: Tangerine

Agreed. Precisely my problem with this premise. The "my god is bigger than your god" bickering leaves about 6billion screwed no matter what. And doesn't even include the people that "claim" to be whatever they are while driving by homeless people in their Mercedes...

originally posted by: FlyersFan

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
The ones that gathered for GOD were in number that was within double digits of breaking the barrier between us and him. I do not know the exact number but it was around 5 or 6 thousand.

Jesus said that where two or more are gathered in His name, He is there. So I'm not sure how you get that there is a barrier, or that there have to be a certain number of people praising God in order for Him to be there (or whatever). And the Kingdom of God is within ... no barrier there. Our souls are the temples of the Holy Spirit .. no barrier there. So I don't know what you are trying to say

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

I'm glad you brought this up because it should at the very least be explained..biblically..

Too bad it looks like your post was overlooked...

Jesus never indicated anywhere that we could somehow force God's hand..which is exactly what it appears the OP is attempting to indicate..

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: AgentShillington

originally posted by: Tangerine
Actually, Jesus didn't say that. One of the men who wrote the Bible said it. It was written multiple generations after Jesus allegedly lived (there is no historical evidence that he did live) by someone who never heard him say anything.

You aren't going to win any arguments with that logic. The people that believe Jesus said that actually BELIEVE Jesus said that. I believe Jesus said it, too. In the Bible, which is the story of Jesus. It would be like someone not believing Harry Potter had a scar on his forehead because he wasn't a real person. Nope, in the book he has a scar on his forehead, and in the Bible, Jesus said...

Matthew 18:20
"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them."

That's not up for debate. It's in the book. The character of Jesus said this thing. The issue isn't whether he said it, the issue is whether or not you believe that it means anything outside of the confines of the pages of the book.

The poster didn't say, "The storybook character Jesus said....". The poster said, "Jesus said...." It was reasonable to conclude that the poster was making a claim of fact and the quote was intended to have great significance. It's far different to have a discussion about what Harry Potter said when everyone involved in the discussion agrees that Harry Potter is a fictional character and the discussion is about a book of fiction.

I have a policy of pretending that Santa and the Easter Bunny exist when small children talk about them. I have a policy of not pretending that mythological figures exist when adults make claims of fact implying their existence. I see no reason to change either policy.

Yeah, the claim of fact was "Jesus said _______" which he did... according to the Bible. I'm not really getting why this is hard for you to understand, but I don't really care anymore either, as you have made it perfectly clear that you aren't interested in discussing the point of the OP, but rather trying to turn it into another pointless "Does GOD exist?" argument.

If you can't discuss the OP, please save thread space for people that would like to do so.

originally posted by: DuckforcoveR
a reply to: AgentShillington

I'm still caught on the "god" who comes to slaughter people....and we should welcome this why? If god shows up and murders people (no matter the reasoning) I really want to know why this equates into reverence and acceptance.

If a being emerges, says it is the God of Abraham, and begins to slaughter humanity, I truly believe that humanity would rise to defend itself from extinction. Way too many cultural Christians would be like... uhhh... This can't be right.

a reply to: AgentShillington

Exactly what I was thinking in my first post. God would be unpleasantly surprised should he return. At least if god remains historically accurate.

People need to learn to solve their own problems rather than wait for a figment of the imagination to solve them.

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: deadeyedick



Not only has your hubris revealed to us just how much you arrogantly think that these particular events happening in your country are somehow sociologically important to those of us who don't share in your geographical location...



But your hubris has also displayed just how much you arrogantly think that your particular god of choice is somehow a necessity to the rest of us as well...



Faux indignation wrapped in a cloak of self-righteousness indeed.

Oh i forgot to mention that my belief is that he does not see borders so we are all in the same boat so to speak. You took many leaps to spit out that post.



agent shillington

pandoras box imo based on my limited understanding is just a reference of growth oh means to kill. the equalivent imo in the book would be i suppose cain killing able or the first sin then it spirles out of control till we start splittin atoms

originally posted by: Expat888
People need to learn to solve their own problems rather than wait for a figment of the imagination to solve them.

your reply seems to be the most relavent here.

here is the problem i see with that.
we all are divided on if a being that is able to control certain aspects of our lives exist or not. we can find some convinced each way.
when we look into our past we can see a clear message that shows a desire to live and overcome the negative aspects of our society yet we never do over come anything at all. to me that shows that by some means we are controlled and points to the need of a higher power to change certain aspects of control in order for the changethat has been mapped out before us countless times to take effect. i would guess that scientifically speaking that research coul prove not that god exist but that an factor exist that we have yet to recognize that keeps us in the state of mind we are in. attempts have been made by medicine to control it but have failed and we have not even unified it in thought far enough to see that it by default of kaos has to exist.

eta i view it as schrodinger telling his cat to find his own way out of the box and to give the results of the expierment turned in by monday.

originally posted by: AgentShillington

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: AgentShillington

originally posted by: Tangerine
Actually, Jesus didn't say that. One of the men who wrote the Bible said it. It was written multiple generations after Jesus allegedly lived (there is no historical evidence that he did live) by someone who never heard him say anything.

You aren't going to win any arguments with that logic. The people that believe Jesus said that actually BELIEVE Jesus said that. I believe Jesus said it, too. In the Bible, which is the story of Jesus. It would be like someone not believing Harry Potter had a scar on his forehead because he wasn't a real person. Nope, in the book he has a scar on his forehead, and in the Bible, Jesus said...

Matthew 18:20
"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them."

That's not up for debate. It's in the book. The character of Jesus said this thing. The issue isn't whether he said it, the issue is whether or not you believe that it means anything outside of the confines of the pages of the book.

The poster didn't say, "The storybook character Jesus said....". The poster said, "Jesus said...." It was reasonable to conclude that the poster was making a claim of fact and the quote was intended to have great significance. It's far different to have a discussion about what Harry Potter said when everyone involved in the discussion agrees that Harry Potter is a fictional character and the discussion is about a book of fiction.

I have a policy of pretending that Santa and the Easter Bunny exist when small children talk about them. I have a policy of not pretending that mythological figures exist when adults make claims of fact implying their existence. I see no reason to change either policy.

Yeah, the claim of fact was "Jesus said _______" which he did... according to the Bible. I'm not really getting why this is hard for you to understand, but I don't really care anymore either, as you have made it perfectly clear that you aren't interested in discussing the point of the OP, but rather trying to turn it into another pointless "Does GOD exist?" argument.

If you can't discuss the OP, please save thread space for people that would like to do so.

Obviously, you do care. The thread title, "Do you want GOD'S intervention?" obviously raises the question of whether God exists or can intervene. When someone claims that Jesus said something relevant to the topic, it's entirely appropriate to point out that there's no evidence that Jesus ever lived and certainly didn't write the words attributed to him. I realize that you want the religious threads to be limited to people who agree with you, but that's not how ATS is supposed to work. In fact, only in the religious threads is there this assumption by some that being a Christian (and a Christian of their particular type) is a requirement for participating in the thread. This raises the question of why you're so afraid of questions about and challenges to your belief system and why you pretend that your beliefs are facts. Do I want God to intervene? Not until I know that God exists and the nature of his agenda.

If he's coming to kill/destroy, then that's not The Spirit of LIFE (God).

God is The Spirit of LIFE. God is Love and Love holds no records of wrongdoings. Love does not seek to dishonor others and it is not self-seeking. Love bears, believes, hopes, and endures.

LOVE is not coming to kill but to transform - to heal , so we can love our neighbors as ourselves.

hatred destroys, love heals and inspires.

God is LOVE and Love never fails and never gives up.

originally posted by: arpgme
If he's coming to kill/destroy, then that's not The Spirit of LIFE (God).

God is The Spirit of LIFE. God is Love and Love holds no records of wrongdoings. Love does not seek to dishonor others and it is not self-seeking. Love bears, believes, hopes, and endures.

LOVE is not coming to kill but to transform - to heal , so we can love our neighbors as ourselves.

hatred destroys, love heals and inspires.

God is LOVE and Love never fails and never gives up.

I take it that you're not talking about the God of the Bible. Which one are you talking about?

a reply to: Tangerine

Everything I said there, matches with these verses in the Bible:


"He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." - 1 John 4:8

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres." - 1 Corinthians 13:4-7

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: Tangerine

Everything I said there, matches with these verses in the Bible:


"He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." - 1 John 4:8

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres." - 1 Corinthians 13:4-7

You conveniently skipped all those verses about God-ordained rape, slavery, killing and war topped off with the apocalypse and eternal hell.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: AgentShillington

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: AgentShillington

originally posted by: Tangerine

Actually, Jesus didn't say that. One of the men who wrote the Bible said it. It was written multiple generations after Jesus allegedly lived (there is no historical evidence that he did live) by someone who never heard him say anything.

Matthew 18:20

"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them."

The poster didn't say, "The storybook character Jesus said....". The poster said, "Jesus said...." It was reasonable to conclude that the poster was making a claim of fact and the quote was intended to have great significance. It's far different to have a discussion about what Harry Potter said when everyone involved in the discussion agrees that Harry Potter is a fictional character and the discussion is about a book of fiction.



I have a policy of pretending that Santa and the Easter Bunny exist when small children talk about them. I have a policy of not pretending that mythological figures exist when adults make claims of fact implying their existence. I see no reason to change either policy.

Yeah, the claim of fact was "Jesus said _______" which he did... according to the Bible. I'm not really getting why this is hard for you to understand, but I don't really care anymore either, as you have made it perfectly clear that you aren't interested in discussing the point of the OP, but rather trying to turn it into another pointless "Does GOD exist?" argument.



If you can't discuss the OP, please save thread space for people that would like to do so.

Obviously, you do care. The thread title, "Do you want GOD'S intervention?" obviously raises the question of whether God exists or can intervene. When someone claims that Jesus said something relevant to the topic, it's entirely appropriate to point out that there's no evidence that Jesus ever lived and certainly didn't write the words attributed to him. I realize that you want the religious threads to be limited to people who agree with you, but that's not how ATS is supposed to work. In fact, only in the religious threads is there this assumption by some that being a Christian (and a Christian of their particular type) is a requirement for participating in the thread. This raises the question of why you're so afraid of questions about and challenges to your belief system and why you pretend that your beliefs are facts. Do I want God to intervene? Not until I know that God exists and the nature of his agenda.

I have learned that when i want a topic to exclude the heathen ramblings of there being no GOD then i will ask in the title for that specifically.

You are 100% wrong about this section of ats. It is in the forim rules that this should be a place to discuss religion faith and theology beyond the scope of it or GOD or gods not being real. The conspiracies in religion is for the discussion for it all being false and imo not near enough of the non believers make the threads that should be made in order to feed the lying ego that has led you down the wrong path in more ways than one. I am pretty sure that if any op's in this forum want to exercise the set forum rules here they can just get a mod's attention. I do not do that simply because i am not put off usually by someone espousing what they believe evn if they can not admit there beliefs are part of a larger belief system but i think it would be wise to try to adhere a bit to the rules.

The argument you are having above this post stems from you possibly not understanding the difference between the old and new testaments. By understanding the sacrifice made on the cross you can gain understanding of the beliefs of many today that adhere to the new testament.

I will point out that you missed a big part of the info in the op because i made the claim that i made a thread about a large number of people gathering to worship god in the outdoors and that that would bring his intervention but that it fell short by just a few that had unbelief in their hearts.

a reply to: deadeyedick

Upon Jesus death, the veil between the Holy of Holys and the rest of the Temple, was rent. No more veil.

English Standard Version
And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split.

biblehub.com...

originally posted by: deadeyedick

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: AgentShillington

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: AgentShillington

originally posted by: Tangerine

Actually, Jesus didn't say that. One of the men who wrote the Bible said it. It was written multiple generations after Jesus allegedly lived (there is no historical evidence that he did live) by someone who never heard him say anything.

Matthew 18:20

"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them."

The poster didn't say, "The storybook character Jesus said....". The poster said, "Jesus said...." It was reasonable to conclude that the poster was making a claim of fact and the quote was intended to have great significance. It's far different to have a discussion about what Harry Potter said when everyone involved in the discussion agrees that Harry Potter is a fictional character and the discussion is about a book of fiction.



I have a policy of pretending that Santa and the Easter Bunny exist when small children talk about them. I have a policy of not pretending that mythological figures exist when adults make claims of fact implying their existence. I see no reason to change either policy.

Yeah, the claim of fact was "Jesus said _______" which he did... according to the Bible. I'm not really getting why this is hard for you to understand, but I don't really care anymore either, as you have made it perfectly clear that you aren't interested in discussing the point of the OP, but rather trying to turn it into another pointless "Does GOD exist?" argument.



If you can't discuss the OP, please save thread space for people that would like to do so.

Obviously, you do care. The thread title, "Do you want GOD'S intervention?" obviously raises the question of whether God exists or can intervene. When someone claims that Jesus said something relevant to the topic, it's entirely appropriate to point out that there's no evidence that Jesus ever lived and certainly didn't write the words attributed to him. I realize that you want the religious threads to be limited to people who agree with you, but that's not how ATS is supposed to work. In fact, only in the religious threads is there this assumption by some that being a Christian (and a Christian of their particular type) is a requirement for participating in the thread. This raises the question of why you're so afraid of questions about and challenges to your belief system and why you pretend that your beliefs are facts. Do I want God to intervene? Not until I know that God exists and the nature of his agenda.

I have learned that when i want a topic to exclude the heathen ramblings of there being no GOD then i will ask in the title for that specifically.

You are 100% wrong about this section of ats. It is in the forim rules that this should be a place to discuss religion faith and theology beyond the scope of it or GOD or gods not being real. The conspiracies in religion is for the discussion for it all being false and imo not near enough of the non believers make the threads that should be made in order to feed the lying ego that has led you down the wrong path in more ways than one. I am pretty sure that if any op's in this forum want to exercise the set forum rules here they can just get a mod's attention. I do not do that simply because i am not put off usually by someone espousing what they believe evn if they can not admit there beliefs are part of a larger belief system but i think it would be wise to try to adhere a bit to the rules.

The argument you are having above this post stems from you possibly not understanding the difference between the old and new testaments. By understanding the sacrifice made on the cross you can gain understanding of the beliefs of many today that adhere to the new testament.

I will point out that you missed a big part of the info in the op because i made the claim that i made a thread about a large number of people gathering to worship god in the outdoors and that that would bring his intervention but that it fell short by just a few that had unbelief in their hearts.

Can you direct me to the specific ATS rule that says, "this should be a place to discuss religion faith and theology beyond the scope of it or GOD or gods not being real" meaning that only believers may post? I think you'll find that, like your God, there's zero evidence that such a rule exists. I suggest that if you're looking for a closed discussion among those who believe as you do, the place to find that is in your church. By the way, I AM discussing religious beliefs. I am simply not agreeing with yours. Clearly, that is what you really want.

As for the rules, I am pretty sure that saying I have a "lying ego" is a violation of Terms of Service.

I find it revealing when you say I don't belong here and encourage people to report me and then say, " i am not put off usually by someone espousing what they believe evn if they can not admit there beliefs are part of a larger belief system but i think it would be wise to try to adhere a bit to the rules."

You have contradicted yourself. Also, I have no idea what you mean by "can not admit there (misspelled) beliefs are part of a larger belief system". Would you care to explain?

a reply to: Tangerine
You interput my words different from my intentions when i wrote them. I do think you belong here but the constant theme of god does not exist that seems to come across from many in every thread in this particular forum does not belong. Again i encourage you to create threads discussing those topics in correct forum. I am not encouraging anyone report anything but stating that it is their right and also stating that i would do the same if i felt threatened by your out of place views. Anyhow here is something you and many others should read imo and i think it will leed to more positive debates here that are able to put more focus on the topics listed in the op's.
www.abovetopsecret.com...