Cops need to be taught their priority is to protect citizens even when they are being bad.

Yes really.....cops must take responsibility when they take custody. Its really not unreasonable at all to expect them to make sure a guy can get air. I mean what the f**k. Certainly when he's already cuffed and down.

originally posted by: launchpad

originally posted by: Shamrock6

can you provide any sort of links or documentation that shows where they're being "trained" that way? like...can you name a police academy that teaches "shoot first, ask questions later" or anything?

Too many articles to list if you just type into the GOOGLE search bar "albq cops training shoot first"- if you can't manage that little bit but still insist i spend the time and energry to figure out how to embed the linkie dinkes you are probably too lazy to read the links if they were provided.

The results of said training around here absolutely apparent too seeing as it got federal attention to sweep it all under a carpet.

-LP

wow dude. slow down on the butthurt. so much angst over a simple request. no need for baby talk

so I googled "cops trained to shoot first" and lo and behold, the only place carrying anything about LEOs actually being TRAINED to shoot first was the Albuquerque progressive network, and I couldn't find anything about the actual policy. just comments saying that was the new policy. not quite as widespread as you make it sound....

originally posted by: Jakal26
People need to quit repeating the rhetoric and realize that the police have no duty to "protect and serve".

Police do not have a constitutional duty to protect someone.

....Maybe if we'd all learn some basic facts, then we could go from there and see what can be done about changing that fact.

You are correct, NO ONE wants to admit to themselves, what the TRUE purpose of LEO's are in the 21st century:

I will quote something said, by InverseLookingGlass, in another threadon ATS. Once you take it in, understand it and accept it, it becomes VERY easy to understand why Law Enforcement Agencies don't have any people with good consciences serving within them today and even if good people with consciences try to enact grass-root change from within, they will simply be denied entry to the agency or are quickly removed from the ranks through various legal and administrative means:

LEOs are in place to do the following:

1. Protect themselves.
2. Maximize their total compensation.
3. Act as a source of revenue generation for their department, their union and the local government employing them.
4. Protecting commercial interests of large corporations
5. Protecting the private property of those whom own the most property in their city and contribute politically
6. Controlling dissenting narratives that would interfere with 1-5.

They've been totally co-opted, insulated from consequences and the citizens are picking up the tab.

We should all be trying to defund departments, instead of trying to prosecute their employees or change laws. It's perfectly legal and solves the bad apple problem MUCH faster.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
so I googled "cops trained to shoot first" and lo and behold, the only place carrying anything about LEOs actually being TRAINED to shoot first was the Albuquerque progressive network, and I couldn't find anything about the actual policy. just comments saying that was the new policy. not quite as widespread as you make it sound....

Its not a written policy that would be unconstitutional. However, they can get around it by saying they were under "threat" or send in SWAT for misdemeanors because SWAT's purpose is to shoot first, not "wait and negotiate".

I can post news articles and old threads from ATS ALL DAY LONG. LEO's can kill whomever they want, most get off Scott free, some get reprimanded and even fewer see jail time. Kids, dogs, elderly, mental disabled, doesn't matter, they have a licensee to kill and the "good cops", judges and DA's let it happen.

More than a quarter of civilians shot by HPD in 5 years had no weapon

How many police shootings a year? No one knows

Cop Tries to Shoot Dog, Plugs Kid Instead.

Georgia teen holding Wii remote shot by cops at his front door

Police Shoot At Oriana Ferrell And Van Full Of Her Kids

Dad Calls Cops on Son to Teach Him a Lesson, Cops Shoot Son Dead

'We called for help, and they killed my son,'

Note, NONE of these officers "protecting & serving" have left their positions or the profession out of "guilt" for their crimes/mistakes.

originally posted by: Shamrock6



wow dude. slow down on the butthurt. so much angst over a simple request. no need for baby talk

so I googled "cops trained to shoot first" and lo and behold, the only place carrying anything about LEOs actually being TRAINED to shoot first was the Albuquerque progressive network, and I couldn't find anything about the actual policy. just comments saying that was the new policy. not quite as widespread as you make it sound....

I am sorry- are you saying your butt is hurting? no need for the dirty talk and that really is too much info. Don't ask to be baby'd and we won't ass-u-me (see what i did there?) that we need the talk and other coddling to go with it.

i just offered one place it very much is being discussed. I wasn't even the person that made the general allegation. i didn't make it sound widespread at all, implied or otherwise, because i WAS specific. . . . and fact of the mater is there certainly is no shortage of material about the Albq situation- i figure that particular one is straight forward enough unless again you are ass-u-me-ing that Albq trains a large percentage of the nations police and not just their own? that may be- i wouldn't know nor would i allege such.

Now, even though you did not google what i told you. . .we have apparently reached a wee bit o'agreement that there is at least OTHER talk of Albq POSSIBLY having that training. Now go dig a bit more specific to the area as i suggested and you will probably get more hits on google. . .

Now why i as an apparent desert dweller (NM) is teaching a coastal dweller (VA) how to fish and all is beyond me. . .hope it helps though.

originally posted by: joemoe
a reply to: jjkenobi

Lets get this straight, it is not the cops' job to protect you or anyone else. It is your job to provide protection for yourself and your family. They will investigate crimes, keep the peace and protect the "public" (lately that "public" seems to be more the "State".).

This I agree with.

For those down on LEO ---- have you considered the alternative?

I mean seriously considered the alternative? "A city without cops".

a reply to: launchpad

Ahhh snap. The old "I am rubber you are glue" move! Hadn't seen that one in years.

Yep, you provided one example. Which is barely an example. It's an allusion to an example. I don't remember at any point ever being trained or told to shoot first and ask questions later. Guess that evens things out.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Really? Because you have not personally SEEN something you are going to say it does not exist or happen. And yet the actual example you even acknowledge as being discussed ain't enough to dig deeper? REALLLY???

look man you may just want to quit sniffing that glue-i am not 100% positive but i do not think glue works for fishing. worms man, worms that is what you use for fishing. i hear those are much better for getting results. Worms only come to the surface after the soil gets too wet. . .sometimes you have to dig and in THIS case we ALREADY BOTH know there are worms in the soil but out here we don't exactly get a lot of moisture- hell the feds know the place is infested because they formed a task force to dig some up themselves. Act now if you want to see some of them before they tunnel deeper or get reduced in number so folks will quit looking. . . but they are HERE at least in THIS place. . . .and if the exist here chances are you may even find them near you. That's all i am saying.

You were the one giving unity99 the hard time about no worms being no where no way crapola (i hear the like that stuff too). i just offered a EASILY confirmed location to narrow the search for your worms.

here is a freebie since i can't even access all the tools on the site to give you a link just search:
"Albq excessive use of force" that should be enough to fish all day. i also hear that a cervasa while fishing makes it even more enjoyable. have one or two on me and relax a bit.

a reply to: launchpad

All I needed to read was the first couple sentences to know you've completely missed the point.

I don't think its a widespread, nationwide training belief to shoot first and ask questions later. Never said "it doesn't happen because it's not happening in my front yard"

Seriously dude. And stop with the incredibly childish antics. My god.

a reply to: Shamrock6

(Braces for the inevitable "you're covering for another cop because your a cop.")

I can also say that I have never been taught or have seen agency policy that teaches to "shoot first."

If someone can produce said DGO or SOP that states that I would love to see it.

originally posted by: TorqueyThePig
a reply to: Shamrock6

(Braces for the inevitable "you're covering for another cop because your a cop.")

I can also say that I have never been taught or have seen agency policy that teaches to "shoot first."

If someone can produce said DGO or SOP that states that I would love to see it.

I answered this already. Its not a written policy, that would be unconstitutional. However, they can get around it by saying they were under "threat" or send in SWAT for misdemeanors because SWAT's purpose is to shoot first, not "wait and negotiate".

Citizens need to be taught they should cooperate with law enforcement.

See, I can do that too.

a reply to: boohoo

Wait..wait..you are correct.

I do recall one of my supervisors telling me to shoot first....when someone points a gun at you.

I stand corrected.

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: Unity_99
Yes, that is what they're supposed to be doing. And alot of what is passing for bad isn't bad when the excessive violence by the bad cops is revealed. But the training to shoot first and ask questions later, is illegal, unlawful and violates all law with precedent in the nations and the constitution.

can you provide any sort of links or documentation that shows where they're being "trained" that way? like...can you name a police academy that teaches "shoot first, ask questions later" or anything?

"I" missed the point?

the OP leads with the specific phrase "it seems" .

unity99 mentions this would be unlawful.

You jump in and ask for "A" academy- or "anything" and i give nearly such- short of a chief of police (hey thats COP for short) holding his own news conference to make sure it is out there. i gave you enough that had you actually dug into- even the littleest bit. . . supposed actual quotes exist from the chief of police to do pretty darn near EXACTLY that. sorry i still cannot imbed because some functions do not even display on my browser. further- if you are ACTUALLY a cop you know that not all of the training a LEO gets is not limited to just at the academy- some of it is is in the form of departmental policy briefing/ refresher training/ ride alongs and such during usually a probationary period (probie? or some other spelling perhaps depending upon your locality)

no worries i see right there under your name even you are not too shy to admit being a "shill supreme" and i can at least see enough of your signature block to know you have zip to add to any real discussion with the whole "admit nothing deny everything and make counter-allegations." thing. good day sir that sort of behaivor is a bit more childish antics than making light of your attempting to discredit the word "seems". my 4 kids all out grew that by 12 but we still know how to have fun. is this part of your "auth-or-a-tay" fixation where folks can't disagree with you? given your avitar do i need to worry about you drawing down on me too???

where the H.E. double toothpicks did the ignor button from ages past go? does that even exist anymore or one more funtion that does not work on this machine?

-----------

Hi ya Torquey! what took ya so long? now why would YOU throw such a thing out there? cops just defending cops because they are cops? no way! that sorta stuff can't ever happen can it? no way we have a term that has come into common use for such is there? hehe. sorry man just poking at ya.

i love ya man. i do. sorry about our other run ins. i don't have to agree with you all the time now do i? how many different ways do i have to say you are "allegedly, allegedly, allegedly" my favorite self identified LEO on the board?

originally posted by: boohoo

originally posted by: TorqueyThePig
a reply to: Shamrock6

(Braces for the inevitable "you're covering for another cop because your a cop.")

I can also say that I have never been taught or have seen agency policy that teaches to "shoot first."

If someone can produce said DGO or SOP that states that I would love to see it.

I answered this already. Its not a written policy, that would be unconstitutional. However, they can get around it by saying they were under "threat" or send in SWAT for misdemeanors because SWAT's purpose is to shoot first, not "wait and negotiate".

if the "thin blue line" is for cops sticking up for cops. . . what do we call it when civies band together and question why the cops failed so utterly in their mandate to take someone in ALIVE- to be tried by other civies (piers)? Further, why is the cop answer to that question snickered about in some cop locker rooms "red puddles" ????? (yes i have been on a ride-along)

We are ALL humans and WE do have rules and roles. . . .can we just please play nicely? every civi is NOT a perp. i would would hope all LEOs are not just looking for a chance to kill. LEOs have a tough job- i wouldn't want it because it would be very draining and eventually i might snap. i at least have the good sense to avoid the duty. since the job is infinitely more voluntary than even military service why are not more LEOS coming to their senses and going into jobs more fitting their risk adversion/blood lust or what ever the particular issue is that surely exisits for these cases to be sooooo darn frequent?

a reply to: Xeven

There's a big difference between "being bad" and "being bad". Eric Gardner did NOT deserve what he got, the poor guy was selling cigarettes. If anything, fine the guy if you must. Choke hold is way over the top, especially when it leads to his death. But the you have crazy criminals like Michael Brown who will do anything to not get busted, like go for a cops gun.

The cop in Eric's case should be behind bars, and in this case I agree with your OP.
The Brown case I have to side with the cop, and ask "what would you do if someone was going for your gun?".

And citizens had better help as well,by curbing dangerous antisocial personallities.
DON'T dance around with a toy gun.
Don't hide a 12 ga in a super soaker and expect those who counter such to be respectful BACK.


Funny how most of America is like the guy in the back seat who would NEVER shut up when YOUR butt is driving and trying to maintain. And the cop is walking up to the car.

The police have become revenue generators through tickets and incarcerations not peace officers protecting citizens and their property.
a reply to: Xeven

a reply to: launchpad

sorry for the reply to myself. . . if there is a straight up POST button it ain't showin.

"http://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/new-police-training-puts-fewer-limits-on-use-of-force/article_4ad9bdf1-f301-591c-ad09-e5fb6731c6d1.h tml"


this is not the EXACT article i had set out earlier but this one is quite telling enough if you care to read it.whole lots of holy caca moments reading this one. "burn them before i turn them over" when talking about the actual training records. . .training to shoot at cars simply to stop them. . . .shooting unarmed assilants rather than using batons because they might come back for revenge later. . . etc.

of course the guy spilling the beans MAY have an agenda of sorts because he was one of the instructors fired from the academy. . . . .then again they have not refuted WHY he says he was fired either.

-LP

a reply to: launchpad

Link not working for me.