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Adam as the Son of God - Yahweh as the False Messiah and Satan as his False Witness (Accuser)

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posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 04:42 PM
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originally posted by: AlephBet
a reply to: Rex282



You are lying I know for a fact you have said YOU were the one crying in the wilderness before.This is a very easy discoverable fact and is forever documenting on the WWW.


If you are going to call me a liar, at least provide the LINK:

THREAD


And then quote me:
"Self-righteousness is as bad as wickedness. I choose to follow the story to its end and be honest about what it says. I may be a lone voice crying in the wilderness. So be it. I will cry out here in this place."



I don't need to find it you alreay admitted you have said it more than once.Are you going to lie that you don't believe it?All you did is try to twist that that isn't what you meant where all anyone has to do is read your posts.People that lie are liars.It's that simple.You try to backtrack to cover up your steps (like you do quite frequently) and bury it in meaningless religious rhetoric.Your lies will catch up with you and yours are a mile high.It matters not one bit how "sincere" you are in your beliefs you are still lying because you have no idea what the truth is because you are of your father.




posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 04:44 PM
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originally posted by: AlephBet

originally posted by: IndependentAgent
I may be why out of line here, but I think I understand something, I see people do this all the time.

Why are you so desperately trying to find reasons not to believe, or respect Yahweh?


If you can read the OT and respect the one that Shed Adam's blood, made the Snake to be an accuser / deceiver and proclaimed himself God, then have at it. I am beyond that day in my life. Now that I know the truth of the names, and the higher axiom of Elohim as Father and Ruach Elohim as Mother, the entire story and my former presuppositions must change. Theology is founded on the Bible with wrong names intentionally blotted out for God and Lord. Even Adam was changed to the word mankind. Restoring the original form then allows a far different story to be read.

Make sure you know that I have remained honest about my view from day one. As it changes, you read it in my threads. I repeat myself as an update to what I have found. Seek, Find and Adaptation. That's the reason for involution (baptism) and rising to new life (evolution). Our directive is to deny ignorance, both in the Bible and here in this place.




You are still clinging to this idea, without any scriptures to back up your claim, and with me, and many other ATS members pointing out the flaws and error, but give us no credible answer or explanation.

This shows that you have already made up your mind about this topics even before placing it in a thread. You are not playing around with 'theories', 'could be' or 'maybe', this is already reality for you.



posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 04:47 PM
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originally posted by: AlephBet
a reply to: IndependentAgent

I though we had agreed that bias and condescension would be left behind?



The problem is that we are not arguing about sport or politics. This is the most important issue we can argue or debate upon. This is the "life or death" argument.



posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 09:09 PM
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originally posted by: IndependentAgent

originally posted by: AlephBet
a reply to: IndependentAgent

I though we had agreed that bias and condescension would be left behind?





The problem is that we are not arguing about sport or politics. This is the most important issue we can argue or debate upon. This is the "life or death" argument.


First, you are the one arguing in this discourse. I am sharing my view.

Nothing can separate us from the Love of our Father, or the instruction of the Holy Spirit. God is Love (1 John 4). Love keeps no records of wrongs (1 Corinthians 13).

If you are implying that I am ignorant, you will suffer judgment for even calling a person a fool according to scripture. If you are implying that I am trying to deceive, I simply remind you I have been here for the last 6 years witnessing a mainly fundamental message in line with most Baptist theology. My search has taken a turn lately after finding the truth behind the names that have been intentionally hidden from us in the Bible. Those names tell a vastly different story than the one taught by theology. This process to open my eyes came by knowing the truth of Baptism. Once I found the meaning of that symbol, I then defined the rest of the ordinances. Each is a simple retelling of previous pagan Mystery School practices. We cannot disconnect the Bible from the Mystery schools. They are the same mystery.

If you are seeking to witness to me as a fellow believer, then judging me is the last thing you want to do. Your words started with judgment. Stick to scripture for your arguments if you wish to argue scripture. Truth rises. Error sinks, as does Yahweh by his own character. The snake was made for a purpose. I fear no judgment of a loving God for being a watchman on the wall.


edit on 5-12-2014 by AlephBet because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 10:19 PM
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a reply to: AlephBet



Originally posted by AlphaBet
Why didn’t Elohim punish Yahwey straight away for those crimes against mankind, why wait 4000 plus years, to punish him…???

And more to the point, why didn’t Elohim put a stop to Yahweh in the beginning, or punish him sooner…especially considering that Elohim is the most High God…???




Originally posted by AlphaBet
Asking why God does something is answered by his will.


So it was God’s will that Yahweh, was aloud (by Elohim) to harm people over countless number of years/centuries, so that he could await his punishment, 4000 years later, at the proper appointed time…??? come on, you can not be serious…sigh….



Originally posted by Joecroft
Also if Yahweh created the snake, then why is the snake hounding him in the New Testament, surely he would still have power over his own creation…???




Originally posted by AlphaBet
I love that you asked such an insightful question.


I’m glad you loved it, but you seemed to have missed the main point behind it lol




Originally posted by AlphaBet
First, he has command over his pet snake.

Job 1:12
Yahweh told Satan, “Everything he has is in your power, but you must not lay a hand on him!” Then Satan left Yahweh’s presence.

Second, he says this to his obedient pet:

Zechariah 3:2
Yahweh said to Satan, “I, Yahweh, silence you, Satan! I, Yahweh, who has chosen Jerusalem, silence you! Isn’t this man like a burning log snatched from a fire?”

Then, in the wilderness, Jesus tells Satan the same at the temptation. Does Jesus have command over demons? Like I said, we have a mystery to solve here and it's not what we have been told.


Yeah, he has power over him, because He created him, but why is the snake even bothering to try and tempt the one who created him…???…why even take the risk;

Also, he is tempting the one who has command and power over him, which seems like a strange thing to do IMO…considering that he only takes orders, from the one who created him…

I mean, who’s giving the snake his orders, to tempt Yahweh, the one who created him…??? Isn’t Yahweh the one, who commands him (Snake) what to do…???

Additionally, don’t you think that all these stories are actually metaphors and coded mystery teachings, that are not meant to taken literally ...i.e. that they’re mainly about our internal inner struggle with ourselves, and our own nature etc…?

Ironically, you’ve already found some key truth IMO, but have somehow dismissed it, by continuing and persisting, in your own multi-layered literal interpretations…

I’ll give you a clue…below…



Originally posted by AlphaBet The Kore Kosmu, better known as the Virgin (or eye) of the World, is an ancient Egyptian Hermetic fragment that has been widely read and studied by scholars and theologians. If there is one thing I have learned in my studies, the Hermetic documents from Egypt open up the various hidden stories in the Bible. Consider the years that Joseph and Moses spent in Egypt, the flight to Egypt that was taken by Jesus and his family, and the exodus from Egypt to the Holy Land. What was learned by Moses in Egypt before writing the Bible? I think this document may hold a clue. As well, the Corpus Hermeticum is a valuable document to read in relation to this treasure from Egypt.





Originally posted by Joecroft
Also, getting back to my original reply. Jesus message would have looked totally different if he was the one who caused original sin…

I mean, just read the whole of John 8…and ask yourself the question, “would anyone, who had a hand in original sin, have had the audacity, to say some of things Jesus says, in that chapter…???





Originally posted by AlphaBet
I only have so much time in a day and so much energy, but I do need to now reread the entire NT to glean from this different paradigm I have found. It is required. Once you rise to a higher axiom, then all former presuppositions change.


Great, continue to search re-read, and maybe gain a new perspective…



Originally posted by AlphaBet
If I say, fold it in half, then you need to go back to the sentence to redefine the word double. Truth is in the presuppositions. If you assume LORD is GOD, then you have assumed the wrong thing. Translators were counting on it.


I’m not assuming anything; I’m simply going with the premise that LORD and God i.e. Elohim and Yahweh, are 2 different entities, which is an accepted element, in discussing the premise in your OP…

“Truth is in the presuppositions.”

A “presupposition”, is defined as believing something to be true, without any evidence or proof; so NO, truth is not found in presuppositions…IMO


- JC



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 05:05 AM
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a reply to: Joecroft



Yeah, he has power over him, because He created him, but why is the snake even bothering to try and tempt the one who created him…???…why even take the risk;


Can I say it again. Your are confusing the two threads. This thread explores the idea that Adam is the Son of God, which implies that Adam was the one being tempted by Satan. Adam, being the Redeemer. What thread are you in right now? Keep the two straight. The thread on Yahweh was the last thread.

We are exploring two different ideas in two different threads.



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 05:10 AM
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a reply to: Joecroft



Additionally, don’t you think that all these stories are actually metaphors and coded mystery teachings, that are not meant to taken literally ...i.e. that they’re mainly about our internal inner struggle with ourselves, and our own nature etc…?

Ironically, you’ve already found some key truth IMO, but have somehow dismissed it, by continuing and persisting, in your own multi-layered literal interpretations…


Again, different threads exploring different ideas and speculating as to how the pieces fit together in the overall mosaic. Yes to metaphors/allegories and coded mysteries in symbolic form. I do agree that they are in this form for a reason. Like the temple with no stone left overturned, the bits in the Mosaic by Moses must be fit together exactly right. Apart from speculation over a single lifetime, we have no other way to get the true message. Since preachers, theologians and priests are afraid to do this, someone must.



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 05:13 AM
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a reply to: Joecroft



A “presupposition”, is defined as believing something to be true, without any evidence or proof; so NO, truth is not found in presuppositions…IMO


Presupposition: a thing tacitly assumed beforehand at the beginning of a line of argument or course of action.

Assumptions are founded on how we define words and names. As Humpty told Alice:

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't — till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'

'But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument",' Alice objected.

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all.'

Alice was too much puzzled to say anything; so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. 'They've a temper, some of them — particularly verbs: they're the proudest — adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs — however, I can manage the whole lot of them! Impenetrability! That's what I say!'

---Humpty is an Egg that fell from a wall. The egg would have hatched, but now it's in pieces, much like our story.


edit on 6-12-2014 by AlephBet because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 07:18 AM
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originally posted by: AlephBet

originally posted by: IndependentAgent

originally posted by: AlephBet
a reply to: IndependentAgent

I though we had agreed that bias and condescension would be left behind?





The problem is that we are not arguing about sport or politics. This is the most important issue we can argue or debate upon. This is the "life or death" argument.


First, you are the one arguing in this discourse. I am sharing my view.

Stick to scripture for your arguments if you wish to argue scripture.



You want scripture? Here is scripture for you.

2Pe 2:1 "But there also came to be false prophets among the people, as also among you there shall be false teachers, who shall secretly bring in destructive heresies, and deny the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction on themselves.

Deu 18:20 "But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My Name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other mighty ones, even that prophet shall die."

Rom 16:17-18 Now I call upon you, brothers, watch out for those who cause divisions and stumbling, contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them. For such ones do not serve our Master יהושע Messiah, but their own stomach, and by smooth words and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the innocent.

And here is some scripture on the subject of "Nothing can separate us from the Love of our Father, or the instruction of the Holy Spirit"

1Pe 4:8 "...because love covers a great number of sins."

and this the the sins that love does not cover

Mar 3:28-29 “Truly, I say to you, all the sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they speak, but he who blasphemes against the Set-apart Spirit has no forgiveness forever, but is subject to everlasting judgment,”

Mat 12:31 “Because of this I say to you, all sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven men."

I could go on and on, but seeing that I have already given you scriptures disproving your "views" in other threads.

But please, give me a complete answer to this, and the other scriptures I have given against your views and theories.

Or, admit your views are heresy.



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 03:01 PM
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originally posted by: AlephBet
If you are implying that I am ignorant, you will suffer judgment for even calling a person a fool according to scripture.


You fail to perceive the duplicity of you “defending yourself” (justifying) against statements of truth and then slander Yahweh with lies.That is exactly what the pharisees did.Yahoshua said when you judge a person “unrighteously” (incorrectly) he said nothing of calling a fool a fool which he did many times to the pharisees and which is being done currently and righteously(correctly) to you.A fool says foolish things that aren’t true.You have written scores of untruth that are merely your carnal religious mind(satan) speculations and now reason is rightfully calling you a fool.
edit on 6-12-2014 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 03:05 PM
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Lol burn the heritic.
Op good for you questioning your beliefs.
God gave us a questioning nature for a reason and god would be proud.
Don't be like the sheep fella make your own way.



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 06:16 PM
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a reply to: AlephBet




Originally posted by Joecroft
Yeah, he has power over him, because He created him, but why is the snake even bothering to try and tempt the one who created him…???…why even take the risk;

Also, he is tempting the one who has command and power over him, which seems like a strange thing to do IMO…considering that he only takes orders, from the one who created him…

I mean, who’s giving the snake his orders, to tempt Yahweh, the one who created him…??? Isn’t Yahweh the one, who commands him (Snake) what to do…???





Originally posted by AlphaBet
Can I say it again.Your are confusing the two threads. This thread explores the idea that Adam is the Son of God, which implies that Adam was the one being tempted by Satan. Adam, being the Redeemer. What thread are you in right now? Keep the two straight. The thread on Yahweh was the last thread.

We are exploring two different ideas in two different threads.


“Say it again”…where did you tell me the first time…???

I’m not confusing anything. Yes, this thread is discussing whether Adam is potentially the Son of God or Not, I’m fully aware of that…but…

This thread also states that Yahweh created the snake, and that Yahweh is Jesus, those same elements are also present in your other thread. So any questions relating to Jesus, Yahweh and the Snake, are all relevant to this thread as well…

Except in your other thread, it wasn't clear if Yahweh created the snake, or whether he was the snake…Anyway, both of those elements are present in this thread, as well as in your other one…so no confusion is taking place…

Therefore my questions above, still apply here…

And another thing, the New Testament makes claims that Jesus is the “Son of God”, and your OP suggests Jesus is Yahweh and that Adam is instead, “The son of god”; So my questions above, are all interconnected with your OP…


- JC



edit on 6-12-2014 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 06:24 PM
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a reply to: AlephBet



Originally posted by Joecroft
Additionally, don’t you think that all these stories are actually metaphors and coded mystery teachings, that are not meant to taken literally ...i.e. that they’re mainly about our internal inner struggle with ourselves, and our own nature etc…?

Ironically, you’ve already found some key truth IMO, but have somehow dismissed it, by continuing and persisting, in your own multi-layered literal interpretations…




Originally posted by AlphaBet
Again, different threads exploring different ideas and speculating as to how the pieces fit together in the overall mosaic. Yes to metaphors/allegories and coded mysteries in symbolic form. I do agree that they are in this form for a reason. Like the temple with no stone left overturned, the bits in the Mosaic by Moses must be fit together exactly right.


But if you agree that there is coded metaphor and ancient mystery schools teachings, encoded into the Bible, then why are you still clinging to various literal interpretations found within the texts…?


- JC



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 06:31 PM
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a reply to: AlephBet



Originally posted by AlphaBet
Presupposition: a thing tacitly assumed beforehand at the beginning of a line of argument or course of action.


Here’s your post again, from you previous reply…below…



Originally posted by AlphaBet
If I say, fold it in half, then you need to go back to the sentence to redefine the word double. Truth is in the presuppositions. If you assume LORD is GOD, then you have assumed the wrong thing. Translators were counting on it.



A Presupposition can be used as starting assumption, that can be set up initially, to help examine whether something is true or not; i.e. Entertaining a potential truth, for example…

But it never means that the starting Presupposition is true; it might be true, but if it does turn out to be true, then it was just by chance/happenstance etc...

So while one can state assumptions and Presuppositions can help lead one to the truth, through examination etc…stating that the truth is in those assumptions and Presuppositions, as a general overall statement, can’t be correct…IMO




Originally posted by AlphaBet
Assumptions are founded on how we define words and names. As Humpty told Alice:


That’s not the case…Humpty Dumpy, was trying to point out, that we “are the masters” of the words, in other words, we define what words mean, so that we can have sensible discourse with others.

Additionally, I wasn’t defining are assuming, how you were using the word “presuppositions.” When you used it, in your phrase ”Truth is in the presuppositions”…because the word “presuppositions” , has already been well defined…(see further down)



Originally posted by AlphaBet
'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all.'


By the phrase “which is to be master”, I’m pretty sure he was trying to point out, that we either become the masters over words, or the “words” become the masters over us…but of course, he means the former, because we define, the very words we use…

And guess what, the word “Presupposition” has already been defined by us humans…

And here it is…




Presupposition
noun
noun: presupposition; plural noun: presuppositions
a thing tacitly assumed beforehand at the beginning of a line of argument or course of action.
"both men shared certain ethical presuppositions about the universe"



If people kept making assumptions about how words should be defined, and coming up with new and differing definitions for them, than every body else, then no sensible discourse would ever take place; And they would find themselves, becoming a regular, down at the mad haters tea party, talking “gobbledygook”, for the most of their days…


- JC



edit on 6-12-2014 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 08:58 PM
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a reply to: IndependentAgent

Prophecy - a prediction from special revelation of future events. I have not prophesied any future events, although I have speculated a great deal in the past about when I think certain biblical events would take place. As for teaching, I am here in a web forum speculating / debating on the Bible, expressing my own unique and individual theology as a believer in God's providence over creation. There is one Father and one Teacher. The Spirit of God teaches. As for the Holy Spirit and Blasphemy, I would never speak a bad word against the Ruach Elohim. God is Love and the Spirit of the true God is Holy. That Spirit does not seek to divide, although it is clear who did divide God's image. It is also clear who created the Snake he then calls his enemy. The Snake was trained to be cunning.

In all of this, you should start by defending the Devil and the reason Yahweh made the devil. Start with this foundational truth of theology (Genesis 3), then the entire building crumbles. While it falls down, the Father (Elohim) and Mother (Ruach Elohim) patiently wait for us to see why the building IS crumbling.

Man was divided by Yahweh, then deceived by the Satan he made. Adam was the unblemished Lamb before his blood was shed by Yahweh to divide God's original image (both male and female). What part of this story do you not understand or think is not Biblical? From here, this thread then takes a look at the possibility that Adam is the Redeemer that hung on the cross.

This might be the most amazing twist to the story. If Yahweh truly deserved to pay the blood cost, but Adam hung on the cross in Yahweh's place, then Adam Redeemed Yahweh. Who shed blood in the OT? Well, Man and Yahweh, but Yahweh is the original sin of division and deception by a Snake.

This story needs to be seen clearly.

Deal with these two verses first, then try to dismantle my argument.

Genesis 3:1

3 The snake was more clever than all the wild animals Yahweh Elohim had made.

Genesis 9

6 Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans his blood will be shed,
because in his image, Elohim made humans.

From here, you might find better answers to the verses you listed earlier. If you are looking for me to be the fulfillment of those verses, you are looking in the wrong place.

I'm trying to find the real snakes in this story.


edit on 6-12-2014 by AlephBet because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2014 @ 04:44 AM
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originally posted by: AlephBet
a reply to: IndependentAgent

Prophecy - a prediction from special revelation of future events. I have not prophesied any future events, although I have speculated a great deal in the past about when I think certain biblical events would take place. As for teaching, I am here in a web forum speculating / debating on the Bible, expressing my own unique and individual theology as a believer in God's providence over creation. There is one Father and one Teacher. The Spirit of God teaches. As for the Holy Spirit and Blasphemy, I would never speak a bad word against the Ruach Elohim. God is Love and the Spirit of the true God is Holy. That Spirit does not seek to divide, although it is clear who did divide God's image. It is also clear who created the Snake he then calls his enemy. The Snake was trained to be cunning.

In all of this, you should start by defending the Devil and the reason Yahweh made the devil. Start with this foundational truth of theology (Genesis 3), then the entire building crumbles. While it falls down, the Father (Elohim) and Mother (Ruach Elohim) patiently wait for us to see why the building IS crumbling.

Man was divided by Yahweh, then deceived by the Satan he made. Adam was the unblemished Lamb before his blood was shed by Yahweh to divide God's original image (both male and female). What part of this story do you not understand or think is not Biblical? From here, this thread then takes a look at the possibility that Adam is the Redeemer that hung on the cross.

This might be the most amazing twist to the story. If Yahweh truly deserved to pay the blood cost, but Adam hung on the cross in Yahweh's place, then Adam Redeemed Yahweh. Who shed blood in the OT? Well, Man and Yahweh, but Yahweh is the original sin of division and deception by a Snake.

This story needs to be seen clearly.

Deal with these two verses first, then try to dismantle my argument.

Genesis 3:1

3 The snake was more clever than all the wild animals Yahweh Elohim had made.

Genesis 9

6 Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans his blood will be shed,
because in his image, Elohim made humans.

From here, you might find better answers to the verses you listed earlier. If you are looking for me to be the fulfillment of those verses, you are looking in the wrong place.

I'm trying to find the real snakes in this story.



In previous posts you said that the Spirit of Yahweh (or Elohim) is showing this 'new truth' to you. But it has been shown that this 'new truth' goes against scripture, so that means that it could not have been Ruach Ha-Kodesh, because She is Truth, and can not lie. Therefore, it must have been the counterfeit spirit (Victoria, or Astarte) feeding you information. Claiming that the Set-Apart Spirit gives you something, when it is not, that is Blasphemy, sorry to say.

But on those verses, Gen 3:1, Lucifer was created to be an Worshiping Angel, the Leader of the Worshiping Angels. So yes, he was created. But after becoming jealous and rebellious, He took the form of the serpent. He was not made a serpent. After he rebelled and was thrown out of heaven, he became Satan Just the fact that you believe he was created a serpent shows that you lack the knowledge, and do not know much about the topic.

Now, Gen 9. Please show me a verse where Adam's blood was shed?? I have already shown that his blood was never shed in the Garden.
edit on 7-12-2014 by IndependentAgent because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-12-2014 by IndependentAgent because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2014 @ 02:20 PM
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a reply to: IndependentAgent



In previous posts you said that the Spirit of Yahweh (or Elohim) is showing this 'new truth' to you.


The Spirit speaks to all of us. As you continue to twist what I say, I will simply keep asking you to do the right thing. I will not answer your pretext.



posted on Dec, 7 2014 @ 02:43 PM
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a reply to: AlephBet

The right thing is pointing out your errors



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