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NLBS #26: Eric Garner's Death, and the Hypocrisy of the NYPD's Broken Windows Policing

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posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 11:50 PM

originally posted by: neo96
Nothing says 'justice' like milking the public for 75 million dollars of tax payer dollars.

That's the wrongful death lawsuit.

So by your sick twisted pavlovianism, it's fine for a cop to attack a man with deadly force, as long as the man has a history of crime. Is that what you bring to this thread? If so, it's subhuman.

And make no mistake, a persistent choke hold with forearm square against the throat is indeed deadly force.
edit on 5-12-2014 by SkepticOverlord because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 11:56 PM
a reply to: SkepticOverlord

So by your sick twisted pavlovianism

By the guys rap sheet of assault, and resisting arrest.

Have people forgotten about what city we are talking about ?

New York City.

One of the most dangerous cities in the world.

posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 11:57 PM
a reply to: neo96

You condone street-sanction capital punishment with cops as trial and jury. Subhuman.

More lies from NewsMax? New York City is not even in the top-14 most-dangerous US cities, let alone the world.

You forget I lived there for nearly ten years.

edit on 6-12-2014 by SkepticOverlord because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 12:32 AM
Daniel Pantaleo waving at the camera starts @ 6:55 into the video for those who don't want to sit through 9+ minutes to see it.
edit on 6-12-2014 by Staroth because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 12:34 AM

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: theNLBS

I don't KNOW--that the officer's actions led to his death.

BUT, you seem to have a tendency in these recent cases to confuse opinion with facts. You call the act "murder," yet, it's only "murder" if a jury convicts someone when evidence has been shown in court to have satisfied all of the elements of the charge.

What more evidence do you need? You just watched one man strangle another to death. Do homicide victims need to start coming back from the dead to confirm to people they were murdered? "Yes, that was me, i am dead, and when i stopped moving right there that was the last time i ever moved."

Please get out of american legal fantasy land. Someone does not have to be convicted for a murder to take place. There are unsolved murders. Explain yourself lol.

You police defenders are just astounding. You will literally say anything no matter how stupid and nonsensical to make a cop look innocent. I literally facepalmed the # out of myself when i read the part i quoted from you. I may have a concussion.

posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 12:49 AM

top 100 most dangerous cities in America list. Guess which city didn't make the list??? C'mon guess.

posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 11:20 AM
a reply to: Bundy
Bundy,You can't rationalize with these clowns.They are prob Pi..Cops themselves,or have a relationship with them.They live in a bubble of self righteousness.We need to Rise Up against this Bs..

edit on 6-12-2014 by greydaze because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 03:31 PM

originally posted by: theNLBS
With all the media hype surrounding the Staten Island Grand Jury's decision not to indict NYPD officer Daniel Pantaleo in the strangulation death of Eric Garner, we wondered if there was anything we could add. After a deeper look, there most certainly is! Many have cited the NYPD's Broken Windows Policing policies and the fact that Eric Garner was supposedly selling loosie cigarettes as a lame rationale for the confrontation. Not only did we discover that a detailed 8-year old study has proven that Broken Windows Policing doesn't work, but also that the NYPD selectively applies when and where they do it. And if that wasn't enough, we found officer Daniel Pantaleo smiling and waving at the camera, just minutes after he killed Eric Garner.

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I agree with the video guy. How could this not qualify at least as involuntary manslaughter, enough to indict the officer? Michael Brown's death is less clear, but this?

posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 03:40 PM

originally posted by: neo96
I am curious about something.

How can the SAME legal system that let OJ loose be rigged against AA's ?

And, that is an entirely different issue with the legal system, i.e. that if you are rich and famous and have enough money to hire $1,000,000 lawyers, you often get off.

posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 03:46 PM

originally posted by: Tardacus
if you won`t accept the grand jury`s decision and move on then you`re basically saying that you don`t support our system of due process,without due process we would have anarchy.
when you commit a crime and then resist arrest you have accepted responsibility for whatever might happen to you.
if you value your life then you won`t put it at risk by committing crimes and resisting arrest.
when you choose to cross the line and become involved in criminal activity, one of the occupational hazards is that you might be killed.

Eh, not to say that some criminals don't get themselves into such situations, but no, petty crimes should never equal death by police. The guy in the video obviously wasn't assaulting the officers or truly a threat, so you can't argue that.

And, there were no "loosie" cigarettes found on him, so we aren't even sure about the claims of selling them.

posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 03:50 PM

originally posted by: Hefficide
a reply to: neo96

If you're implying that I get my information solely from ATS, then I need to let you know that is not the case. As far as trusting the Grand Jury and Prosecutor?

Neo... when did you become a fan of Big Brother?

I find it really ironic and interesting that so many uber conservatives on here are always talking about the danger of Big Brother, how our police is becoming militarized, how the UN will take over the US, etc ad infinitum. Then, suddenly, African Americans are killed and "omg why don't you guys just trust the police and court system. I have faith that they acted in good conscience. If you don't want to get killed don't break the law.''

Isn't it kinda strange?

I don't mean to generalize all conservatives but I guarantee more conservatives across the US are on the side of the cops here than liberals are.

posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 10:49 PM
I must have seen clips of this vid for days now, but I was not aware the guy died. I stoped watching the news or anything really years ago, I only now just see clips when i am walking by, or if they have anything really interesting. Most times however they do not. But from what i seen of the video, that's murder as far as I am concerned, and from all I seen he was doing nothing and whats more broke up a fight moments earlier before he got harassed by the cops in the vid.

I dont think this speaks for all cops, but there seem to be many of them drunk on there own power. Personally I have never ran into something like this, I have had tickets which were questionable given to me and I was pissed but you get over it, and once a younger cop from what I remember was what I think trying to show off to a female cop as I was coming out of a store and for some reason it looked like he was about to try and mess with me as I was going to my car, but thought better of it when the female cop and the other one told him to come along already. It would be stupid to ruin your hole life over an idiot trying to show off to a girl. But # happens.

Lets just say if it came to it, one of us would be face first on the concrete in a few seconds, and it would not likely be me, but I would still be going to jail and that would likely give me a record and then it would all go downhill from there as such things are wont to do. And stupider things have happened over stupider reasons, believe me I know and seen them, I was even present or at least not that far away when somebody slapped somebody else and killed them. I am not making that stuff up, it did really happen, at a job I had, lets just say it was not hand slap, from all accounts it was more like a full arm swing with the palm open, and it was light out and the guy latter died in the hospital. Eventually I quit that job for that and a bunch of other reasons.

But in all you can choke out somebody and put them to sleep very easily, even if they dont know what there doing and not going for the carotid artery's and just the jugular so he cant breath you can still put them out, depending on the person at least. And all you really have to do to kill the is hold on to the choke for about 5 seconds more then you need to, basically cut off all bloodflow to the brain by closing the two major vains on the side of the neck the whole breathing things chocking the air out of them is something that people who have no clue do, but it can still be serious.

Seriously its that easy to kill somebody, it only takes seconds to put them out, and to kill them all you have to do is hold it for seconds more after there out and there dead or brain dead, once you cut off blood flow to the brain by putting pressure on the arteries, even if there physically breathing you can still kill them. That and some people are really not used to it, do to never been in such a situation, and seeing the guy had Asama from what I heard, well you get the picture. Its like tasers, some would get tazed get a buzz and then get up and be on his way moments later, others would probably have a heart attack right then and there and it would be over for them. Like tasers chocking somebody could have serious life and death consequences depending on the person, even if you have no clue on what your doing.

The rear naked choke is not something to play at. I mean most people would take a look at garner see his size and think something like that wont phase him. In reality overweight people and people that size would likely be just as easy to knock out and kill with such a choke as anybody else, infact more so probably as there likely to have severe blood flow problems due to there size and overweight. Like I said, in mma its called the mata lion ie the lion kill for a reason, its pretty much game over if you get a guy locked up in that choke, no matter how big or strong they are.

I think most kids when young probably rough house or choke eachoter out, or it could just be me. You can even put somebody out by using pressure points if you get them flushed in a fight and hit them hard in the right spot, yes you can even ko somebody if you punch them in the neck in the corated artery area if you do it at the right time and moment, you can even call it a pressure point. Its not likely to happen but it can be done, and you can even put somebody out with the Russian bear hug wrestling move that you seen in movies. You would need to be extremely strong and it would only work after they have exhausted themselfs, but it can be done, you can probably even kill them if you really squese there ribcage and put enough pressure on the heart and bloodflow to the heart.

Also even while a kid we used to play the put to sleep game or when we were wrestling, that to is no joke and depending on the person it can be fatal, I see kids have found out about the game now a days as well, while it may not be life and death even that game is something which can turn fatal at a moments notice.

Heres a vid of them playing the sleep game, though the captions got it wrong, the knock out challenge is a different thing and we got plenty of dumb asses playing that game as well, or we did a few years back, remember were a bunch of young dumbasses would try to punch and KO random people, there was even threads about it here on ATS, or at least they played that game till they try it on the wrong person, and end up face down on the floor. Geez...Morons. Though this reinvention of the knock out challenge game may be mild in comparison and more something kids would do over a sleepover party, however it can still be just as dangerous.

So ya! To treat something like that by that cop like its fun or a game, well that's no excuse and as far as I see it. I would call it murder, most especially since garner was not doing anything illegal, if you call selling cigarets as illegal, or the whole glass window thing. Well then your an idiot, as none of that would accomplish anything at all, but dramas like this.

posted on Dec, 7 2014 @ 07:10 AM

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Cuervo

The grand jury most likely ruled the way they did. Because the evidence could not substaniate the 'choke hold' was the cause of death.

That's like saying the bullet in a dead man's head wasn't the cause of death, it was the heart attack he suffered that was.

The cops had no way of knowing Garners underlying health conditions.


Garner did 'resist'. All he had to do was comply with the LEO's orders as required by law.

Hell a medical alert bracelet, and necklace could have saved that guys life.

Speculative. But no, most likely it wouldn't have.
edit on 7-12-2014 by Flux8 because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 7 2014 @ 12:10 PM
a reply to: theNLBS

Wow, seriously, best episode yet IMO! I just shared it with quite a few of my NYC friends.

I know I mentioned language on the last episode, so I found the counter hilarious as well.

posted on Dec, 7 2014 @ 12:25 PM
First off, to some people in this thread, this issue is not about race. This issue is about LEO's who rush to use excessive force.

I'm sure my post history shows I agree with the Wilson/Brown GJ, but I cannot agree with the one in NYC.

Secondly, officers are held to a different standard when it comes to cause of death as part of their job potentially entails the use of force, sometimes deadly force. When faced with rules concerning officers the GJ probably had no option but to not indict.

The level of force allowed, especially for an unarmed noncombative perp must be reconsidered by law enforcement. The potential use of excessive force could inadvertently lead to fatal encounters as evidenced by this case.

There are cases of tasers being used when not necessary that have resulted in deaths. Core values and training of US LEO's must be reassessed.

posted on Dec, 7 2014 @ 07:45 PM

originally posted by: ausername
Now would be an excellent time for one of those ATS polls.

Do you believe there was enough evidence in this case for an indictment?

Was this case worthy of a criminal trial?... Etc

The real issue is that Indictments depend upon a set of rules that make it impossible for any fair minded jury (even when there are black jurors, I.E. the Michael Brown case) to prosecute on a reasonable assumption of judgment and restraint by police officers. The indictment system is an unethical legal instrument based on ambiguous departmental rules, used to stage what appears to be a fair process of sorts. In the end, the jury cannot know whether a white police officer had any specific intend to kill a black man in a given circumstance, and the burden of proof is unfairly placed upon the deceased victim. Such rules are intended to obfuscate other considerations, such as the competency of an officer to assess when to use force and by what means at his disposal. This should be coupled with procedures and equipment, such as body cams, tasers and rules of engagement that force law enforcers to use logical assessments and actions. Thus far, the system places all emphasis on the actions of the victim.

I think its quite obvious that prosecutors can manipulate the outcome of grand juries and even trials by bringing false or outrageous charges against police officers guilty of much lessor infractions in terms of ethical behaviors we would all expect as a minimum. If a suspect dies while being arrested or incapacitated, then that officer should have to answer to simple rules of engagement established to prevent such tragedies. The findings of any subsequent grand juries or other committees of judgment should be predicated on such a draft.

But if Police Chiefs and Mayors continue to evade these preventable scenarios, they are placing national security within the means of unscrupulous individuals who would spread chaos and destruction. People who would aspire others around them to violence, arson and other crimes. Further instances of white justice, incorporated by government authority will only become a social liability to the country and economy at large. Consider what happened in Ferguson, happening in hundreds or thousands of cities and towns around the country.

This has been thought of as one scenario and the federal government has been quietly building its assets in preparation to contain it for over a decade.

posted on Dec, 8 2014 @ 03:16 AM
I couldn't get through the first minute of this one. You're supposed to be exposing bullsh!t, yet within the first 30 seconds you boldly claim that Garner was strangled to death, which is some serious bullsh!t. Did YOU see the video?

People who are strangled to death don't say "I can't breath" 11 times after their attacker STOPS choking them. Common sense is quickly becoming uncommon around here.

posted on Dec, 8 2014 @ 04:42 PM
This case does seem a bit different from the Wilson case. Chokehold banned so cops shouldn't be using it!!!!!! They shouldn't be above the law either.

That being said......

an odd thing about the Ferguson protests is that they are getting help from the same lawyers as Occupy

Just a coincidence though right?

edit on 8-12-2014 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 8 2014 @ 04:43 PM

originally posted by: Bone75
...within the first 30 seconds you boldly claim that Garner was strangled to death...

Yes. We and the Medical Examiner stand by the statement.

posted on Dec, 8 2014 @ 04:50 PM
a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

You mean lawyers from the National Lawyers Guild?

It's kind of what they do... so...

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