Inuit elders sharing information with NASA regarding Earth's "WOBBLE"

I think a shift like THAT would be a huge mess

Maybe the view depends on the power of the telescope or the mountain you have it set up on . I have very little knowledge in this but do question what other people say is true when I can not observe it first hand .Much like the first nations observed they were being abused first hand but that tptb either ignored or twisted what they were saying to fit a better reality that was just not so . a reply to: eriktheawful

a reply to: jtma508

Polar Aligning a telescope is normally done with a Equaltorial Mount.


Here's a quick link talking about how it's done and what it is

We will all know when the sun is not rising exactly where and when it should, because of various alignments aimed at specific sunsrise/sunsets on certain dates. For example, New Yorkers will no longer see Manhattanhenge on the right day .....

www.independent.co.uk...

Believe your eyes

a reply to: SonOfTheLawOfOne

How would all of these great astronomers, telescopes and satellites be able to tell if we were moving with the precession of the equinox or if in fact the axis of the earth was shifting?

Science.

We as a species have been able to measure this for thousands of years. It is no great mystery. The rest of the planets in our solar system are exactly where they should be.

Axial tilt

Earth's orbit around the sun is not perfect, the distance changes almost daily.

Cyclical dynamics of our solar system, and galaxy that can affect this are not fully known yet...

But that may change very soon...

a reply to: SonOfTheLawOfOne

Not with our instruments, but with those of our ancestors:



Old sundials and most significantly the ancient stone circles in the UK can verify that the Sun has not changed position at least in the last 5,000 years. The rising sun at solstice still appears aligned to the stones where they pin pointed it all those years ago.

This Inuit story has been floating around a fair few years. I heard of it a long time ago because I used to be an activist for an indigenous rights charity called Survival International.

I wonder even if the interviewed Inuit gentleman is even being translated right? It is may be us mistranslating through misunderstanding or deliberate twisting what he and they mean or this Inuit guy is being a bit imaginative for some reason.

The Sun is not different. Neither are the stars. At least since those stone circles were built. I believe the Pyramids are also still aligned, too.

Just because it is indigenous does mot mean it is right. I have big respect for these people, but they are not perfect. They have a lot to teach us about relating to nature respectfully, but they are not Einstein.

originally posted by: intrptr
What about the secret underground Nazi bases up there? Have they found those yet?

Dude..get your facts straight.

Santa is north pole, Nazis are south pole.

Removed because no matter how I try to word it it's going to be offensive, but it basically implies I don't have a lot of faith in their words; having met them several times, along with many other native leaders in various villages here.

originally posted by: Tucket

originally posted by: intrptr
What about the secret underground Nazi bases up there? Have they found those yet?

Dude..get your facts straight.

Santa is north pole, Nazis are south pole.

Wrong, the Nazis are on the dark side of the moon.

originally posted by: eriktheawful
a reply to: jtma508

Polar Aligning a telescope is normally done with a Equaltorial Mount.


Here's a quick link talking about how it's done and what it is

Ok... so an ignorant question here...

If you are aligning your telescope to a fixed position in the sky, or on Earth, then everything else moves RELATIVE to that object. It's no different than 4 cars all driving on the same road in the same direction. (4 different telescopes all pointing at the same destination at the end of the road) Let's put those cars in the blackness of space where they don't know where they are relative to anything else except each other. If those 4 cars are moving at the same speed, they would have no idea because of their speed relative to one another. If one of the cars is moving faster, you would know because your position relative to theirs would change visibly, but you still wouldn't be able to tell from the background where you have no fixed object or position to associate to.

With that being said, if Earth has tilted or moved, but everything RELATIVE to you has not (such as the sun, stars, moon, etc.), how would you know that anything else have moved if you are always pointing to a fixed location that everything else moves relative to?

You are already compensating for the Earth's wobble, both the Chandler wobble and the precession wobble, by using your fixed point of Polaris or the polar alignment your telescope is doing, and then trusting that everything is in its rightful place because relative to your fixed point, nothing has moved. If your fixed point is attached to the thing that is moving, and everything else is relative to that, you'd never know that anything has moved, but you might just feel the effects.

I'm not stating any of this as fact, just applying my understanding against what you are saying.

~Namaste

originally posted by: eriktheawful
... I'll trust what my telescope tells me over what any Inuit elders have to say (with information that was passed down by word of mouth).

To be fair if their oral history goes back a thousand years then the positions of equinoxes relative landmarks would be noticeably different today than a millennium ago because of axial precession.

originally posted by: Dabrazzo
a reply to: SonOfTheLawOfOne

How would all of these great astronomers, telescopes and satellites be able to tell if we were moving with the precession of the equinox or if in fact the axis of the earth was shifting?

Science.

We as a species have been able to measure this for thousands of years. It is no great mystery. The rest of the planets in our solar system are exactly where they should be.

Axial tilt

Thanks for the drive-by comment.

I get what role science plays here. You completely missed what I was saying.

If there was more than a 20+ degree tilt, you wouldn't know until you reached the end of the equinox. So while things may have been fine for millions of years before, we won't know that there is a problem now until we reach the end of the equinox and find out that it took 1000 years longer to reach.

~Namaste

a reply to: eriktheawful

That's what I figured. So you point your telescope at Polaris (Northern Star) and use that as a reference so the RA and DEC work for all the other stars. So there's the rub. For the sake of argument, IF the earth had shifted ALL the stars will have shifted together. Therefore, if you align your telescope with Polaris (after the shift) then of course all the RA and DEC for the other stars would be the same. Your argument does nothing to prove that the alleged shift hasn't happened. Such a shift could ONLY be detected if we had a fixed terrestrial reference that was aligned with a known celestial object.

a reply to: Tucket

Dude..get your facts straight.

Santa is north pole, Nazis are south pole.

Straight facts on Santa and Nazis?

What about Inuit facts? If white punks on dope think the moon is bigger thats a joke but the inuit say it and its "straight up".

lulz

originally posted by: lonesomerimbaud
a reply to: SonOfTheLawOfOne

Not with our instruments, but with those of our ancestors.

Old sundials and most significantly the ancient stone circles in the UK can verify that the Sun has not changed position at least in the last 5,000 years. The rising sun at solstice still appears aligned to the stones where they pin pointed it all those years ago.

Two things wrong with your statement.

1) The sun has a wobble if it's own, so it's position does change and has.

2) The normal precession of the Earth is going to change where the sun shines but not its position.

The sun and the earth have changed positions in the last 5,000 years... we've tilted due to seasons, we've wobbled from the Chandler wobble, the wobble of precession and from the ice ages, all of which have changed where the light from the sun falls on the surface of the planet.

If you don't trust the ancient knowledge of the Inuit's, why would you trust the ancient knowledge of stone circle builders?

~Namaste

a reply to: jtma508



Thank you for better describing what I was trying to ask.

(removes foot from mouth)

~Namaste

originally posted by: SonOfTheLawOfOne
a reply to: Dabrazzo

How would all of these great astronomers, telescopes and satellites be able to tell if we were moving with the precession of the equinox or if in fact the axis of the earth was shifting?

We wouldn't. Not until we reached the end of the equinox and kept on tilting instead of moving back toward the other side of precession.

~Namaste

WRONG! It does not matter what orientation the earth is . It can wobble around and turn upside down every 24 hrs and astronomers can still detect the difference between the plane of the solar system and our galaxy (hence your equinox issue is resolved). Not only that but the relative position , orientation etc of our galaxy to all others can also be determined irrespective of our earths position.

Can all non astronomers please stop this nonsense.

BY the way on a clear night with no light pollution everyone can detect the change (if there is one) between the plane of our solar system and the milky way.......just look upwards !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for the Inuits think about this : how do native peoples traditionally tell the seasons ? If the world's climate is changing would the seasons change ? Would this affect the "the length of the day at the start/end of the hunting season"...........DUH!!!!!!

a reply to: SonOfTheLawOfOne

You did ask how they would know, and the answer is still pretty much the same.

Science.

You can choose to ignore any and all scientific observations with regards to the tilt in the Earths axis if you like and instead speculate on theory but thats all its going to be. If the planet tilted by 20 degrees???? we would notice an immediate and almost certainly cataclysmic effect on our planet.

a reply to: lonesomerimbaud

I just wanted to add that I think the Inuit people were saying they had noticed a change in the seasons; things going out of sink, ice melting too early and stuff like that. I seem to remember it being used as an example of global warming. May be this got Chinese whispered down the line to be misrepresented as some argument for the change in positions hypothesis.

There is a measured wobble to the earth, that is scientifically proven. It is insignificant in the scheme of positions though.