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Chemtrail pushers/believers: you should be ashamed of yourselves

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posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 12:29 AM
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Why?

Because you clearly believe that something quite dramatic and bad for the human population is being done on a daily basis and you are doing nothing about it.

You could be mankind's savior, become famous, earn lots of money and shut us debunkers up...

Insults have been hurled by both sides...sure. But far more from your side calling us paid shills, disinfo agents etc...

So, what an i suggesting? Why don't you:

- Go to lots of airports from around the world (organise yourselves) and get sample of jet fuel and take it to independent labs and get it tested for additives that should not be in there. This alone, if you find anything, will be a HUGE deal since it will be indicative of a major crime being committed.

- Track thousands of flights over months/a year that you think are spraying. Use binoculars and online tracking sites to record the flights, that way a pattern will emerge on which planes are spraying, when etc....

- Take thousands of photos of said planes, build a case file.

- While you are doing that, go online and get the air conditons for that day and your area. Consult Appleman charts for EACH specific day to see if long contrails might be due to weather conditions. Tie these to each day in a manner that can be easily referred to by anyone. Again, if something is going on, it should start to become evident.

- Keep a detailed not of the weather conditions on each day. Since long contrails form frequently ahead of rain, a big deviation from this might be proof of something nefarious happening.

- Hang around airport back roads (as much as you can without being arrested) and keep a detailed diary of which trucks are delivering what and to where. Is the fuel going to a weird location at the airport? Write it down. Maybe its somewhere where they are adding the stuff you think they are adding. Keep notes of what other trucks deliver what to that area.
Keep special note of any chemical trucks. If they are unmarked. Follow them when they leave. See where they originate. It might be a chemical company. Since no one has ever done thins, it might be this simple. The important thing here is to build a case, keep a note of times, when things are delivered. etc...

- A bit harder to do...but make friends with aircraft engineers in bars frequented by the staff at airports. Get to know em, speak to them. Build up a picture of ANYTHING they might find weird about the planes they work on. It might not reveal much, but ANY info they might be able to tell you might be the missing piece to the info you have collected above.

- This one is very important: Debunk the science of persistent contrails. Go to contrailscience.com and tell the owner of the site where he is wrong. If the science is wrong, PROVE IT. He has asked you countless times to do so and no one has. Now...i understand. You say "its not up to me to prove it", but if you want to save humanity, your children's futures, bite the bullet, take on the challenge and show us that it is US who have misunderstood 100 years of meteo science. This is exceedingly important thing to do as it will be the foundation of your case.
You have got to tell us where we have misunderstood about cirrus clouds not creating rain etc... You have to (pardon the pun) pick holes in our theory of the start and stopping on contrails due to gaps in the supersaturation of the air. Please please please (a hundred times) tell us what we are misunderstanding.

- Stop using known liars who routinely post doctored photos or easily debunked articles. If they are selling stuff on their websites or have a "donate" button, then don't use them as proof. They have an ulterior motive and will only harm your case. Stay as FAR away from these people as possible. They WILL harm your case. Come in clean and honest.

- Use your detailed log of the flights going over you and the weather on that day to prove that the checkerboard patterns you are witnessing that day are not simply due to regular jet airway patterns and wind blowing the previous planes contrails to the side a bit until the next one comes...I mean, it seems fairly straightforward, but armed with your detailed notes, you can throw egg in our faces.

- Finally, start a kickstarter fund or find a rich chemtrail believer to pay money to hire one of the many air sampling planes you can hire to fly into the chemtrails you see and take samples. Obviously samples from the ground cannot be used since there are way too many sources of pollution down here. And remember that pollution can travel for thousands of miles. Here in London we routinely wake up to find fine sand on our cars that has come over from the Sahara. Sure, this might be pricey, but if that guy could get 50K to make that silly film, i'm sure you can raise the money for a plane hire for the day.


Now, i realise that all this is extremely time consuming and some aspects can be expensive. BUT, think of the service to mankind you will be providing. You will saving 7 billion people. You familes, your kids, their future kids...the world will be in your debt for exposing this heinous crime against humanity. You will be rich. Famous. And everyone will owe you a debt.

How can you just sit there on your a**es while you watch the world getting poisoned?
How can you just sit there on your a**es while you watch your kids breathe in this filth?

Get organised and do the above. Notice i used the word "detailed" a lot...because it is with scrupulous note taking and collecting ALL the details that you can get the basta*ds who are poisoning you mums and dads and your newborn babies...

No one has said this so far in 20 pages of chemtrails posts...but this is the big one. If true, this is one of THE most important things to bring into the public eye. This isn't about moon landings or even 9/11...this would affect us all and i cant think of any greater conspiracy to uncover.

OR:


Just keep coming on here and posting links to youtube videos and unrelated patents..Your choice. Your move. Prove US wrong. Be the bigger man/woman and prove to us that you are right and we are being sprayed. This isn't a playground, this is serious (if you are right)

Good luck!
edit on 4-12-2014 by 3danimator2014 because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-12-2014 by 3danimator2014 because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 12:36 AM
link   
a reply to: 3danimator2014

You should be a lawyer.



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 12:42 AM
link   
you fail to understand how things work in the conspiracy world:
people just want to hear that they are right, they don't want to offer any real solution to the problem.
it is "clear" that 9/11 was an inside job, and yet they sit all back and circlejerk. kinda like the occupy wallstreet movment, a bunch of people just sitting in a park, hoping things will change or justice will come via magic.
it's just about proving who is smarter.



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 12:44 AM
link   
a reply to: FalcoFan

Well, i studied physics at university, maybe that's why i'm a firm believer in data, data, DATA! lol

But seriously, I just want to see some people take responsibility for what they believe in and get some results instead of seeing the same patent links, badly (if at all) understood science speak and typical "let me throw everything i possibly can against the wall and see what sticks" that chemmies have a habit of doing. The only thing that will save mankind is good ol' hard data. Proof. Hard proof. Not even definite proof is needed, but at least get the ball rolling by getting hard proof that something is up.

For the life of me, i cannot understand how anyone who believes in chemtrails can just go on with their lives and do nothing. If i thought my son was breathing in barium/aluminium/nano particles/ chemtrailed viruses etc...i would get off my arse.



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 12:47 AM
link   

originally posted by: IShotMyLastMuse
you fail to understand how things work in the conspiracy world:
people just want to hear that they are right, they don't want to offer any real solution to the problem.
it is "clear" that 9/11 was an inside job, and yet they sit all back and circlejerk. kinda like the occupy wallstreet movment, a bunch of people just sitting in a park, hoping things will change or justice will come via magic.
it's just about proving who is smarter.


Maybe so...but lets not start by pointing fingers and by insulting the other parties (i know you didn't mean it that way, don't worry)...


+8 more 
posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 12:51 AM
link   
You could say the same thing about a lot of conspiracy issues. Who is going to spend the money and countless hours doing the necessary research and investigations? Easier said than done. Much easier just to sit here and argue about it. I'm neither pro or con on the chemtrails, I don't know enough to make an informed decision. Heck, Monsanto and large corporations spray chemicals right under our noses, feed the cattle growth hormones, which are proven unhealthy for the cattle, so who is to say what is or is not going on "under the radar" ?



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 12:56 AM
link   
a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

The point is that feeding cattle hormones, spraying chemicals onto crops etc...is very feasible. We can believe that it CAN be done even if we are not sure that it is.

Chemtrails rely on hundreds of thousands of people worldwide being in on it. It requires aircraft tanks that are too big to for on planes and it requires our understanding of the weather and of how planes handle to be very wrong.

So, you see, there is a very big difference.

Not only that, but this is poisoning on a global scale. This would be by far, the most important conspiracy theory to prove right.


edit on 4-12-2014 by 3danimator2014 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 01:00 AM
link   
a reply to: 3danimator2014

Fair enough, I won't get into debating because I just don't know. Just sharing my perspective from where I sit.



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 01:09 AM
link   
a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

I understand where you are coming from. Cheers
edit on 4-12-2014 by 3danimator2014 because: (no reason given)


+6 more 
posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 03:07 AM
link   

originally posted by: 3danimator2014
Why?

Because you clearly believe that something quite dramatic and bad for the human population is being done on a daily basis and you are doing nothing about it.

You could be mankind's savior, become famous, earn lots of money and shut us debunkers up...

Insults have been hurled by both sides...sure. But far more from your side calling us paid shills, disinfo agents etc...

So, what an i suggesting? Why don't you:

- Go to lots of airports from around the world (organise yourselves) and get sample of jet fuel and take it to independent labs and get it tested for additives that should not be in there. This alone, if you find anything, will be a HUGE deal since it will be indicative of a major crime being committed.

- Track thousands of flights over months/a year that you think are spraying. Use binoculars and online tracking sites to record the flights, that way a pattern will emerge on which planes are spraying, when etc....

- Take thousands of photos of said planes, build a case file.

- While you are doing that, go online and get the air conditons for that day and your area. Consult Appleman charts for EACH specific day to see if long contrails might be due to weather conditions. Tie these to each day in a manner that can be easily referred to by anyone. Again, if something is going on, it should start to become evident.

- Keep a detailed not of the weather conditions on each day. Since long contrails form frequently ahead of rain, a big deviation from this might be proof of something nefarious happening.

- Hang around airport back roads (as much as you can without being arrested) and keep a detailed diary of which trucks are delivering what and to where. Is the fuel going to a weird location at the airport? Write it down. Maybe its somewhere where they are adding the stuff you think they are adding. Keep notes of what other trucks deliver what to that area.
Keep special note of any chemical trucks. If they are unmarked. Follow them when they leave. See where they originate. It might be a chemical company. Since no one has ever done thins, it might be this simple. The important thing here is to build a case, keep a note of times, when things are delivered. etc...

- A bit harder to do...but make friends with aircraft engineers in bars frequented by the staff at airports. Get to know em, speak to them. Build up a picture of ANYTHING they might find weird about the planes they work on. It might not reveal much, but ANY info they might be able to tell you might be the missing piece to the info you have collected above.

- This one is very important: Debunk the science of persistent contrails. Go to contrailscience.com and tell the owner of the site where he is wrong. If the science is wrong, PROVE IT. He has asked you countless times to do so and no one has. Now...i understand. You say "its not up to me to prove it", but if you want to save humanity, your children's futures, bite the bullet, take on the challenge and show us that it is US who have misunderstood 100 years of meteo science. This is exceedingly important thing to do as it will be the foundation of your case.
You have got to tell us where we have misunderstood about cirrus clouds not creating rain etc... You have to (pardon the pun) pick holes in our theory of the start and stopping on contrails due to gaps in the supersaturation of the air. Please please please (a hundred times) tell us what we are misunderstanding.

- Stop using known liars who routinely post doctored photos or easily debunked articles. If they are selling stuff on their websites or have a "donate" button, then don't use them as proof. They have an ulterior motive and will only harm your case. Stay as FAR away from these people as possible. They WILL harm your case. Come in clean and honest.

- Use your detailed log of the flights going over you and the weather on that day to prove that the checkerboard patterns you are witnessing that day are not simply due to regular jet airway patterns and wind blowing the previous planes contrails to the side a bit until the next one comes...I mean, it seems fairly straightforward, but armed with your detailed notes, you can throw egg in our faces.

- Finally, start a kickstarter fund or find a rich chemtrail believer to pay money to hire one of the many air sampling planes you can hire to fly into the chemtrails you see and take samples. Obviously samples from the ground cannot be used since there are way too many sources of pollution down here. And remember that pollution can travel for thousands of miles. Here in London we routinely wake up to find fine sand on our cars that has come over from the Sahara. Sure, this might be pricey, but if that guy could get 50K to make that silly film, i'm sure you can raise the money for a plane hire for the day.


Now, i realise that all this is extremely time consuming and some aspects can be expensive. BUT, think of the service to mankind you will be providing. You will saving 7 billion people. You familes, your kids, their future kids...the world will be in your debt for exposing this heinous crime against humanity. You will be rich. Famous. And everyone will owe you a debt.

How can you just sit there on your a**es while you watch the world getting poisoned?
How can you just sit there on your a**es while you watch your kids breathe in this filth?

Get organised and do the above. Notice i used the word "detailed" a lot...because it is with scrupulous note taking and collecting ALL the details that you can get the basta*ds who are poisoning you mums and dads and your newborn babies...

No one has said this so far in 20 pages of chemtrails posts...but this is the big one. If true, this is one of THE most important things to bring into the public eye. This isn't about moon landings or even 9/11...this would affect us all and i cant think of any greater conspiracy to uncover.

OR:


Just keep coming on here and posting links to youtube videos and unrelated patents..Your choice. Your move. Prove US wrong. Be the bigger man/woman and prove to us that you are right and we are being sprayed. This isn't a playground, this is serious (if you are right)

Good luck!


What I am suggesting is the following :

Why don't you do exactly the same thing that you are "suggesting" too in order to debunk once and for all this theory?

Why not post peer reviewed articles from "trusted" sources, supply hard evidence and post links to solid proof here on this thread and let the "beleivers and non-beleivers" discuss this in a polite and mature way?

I remember right at the very beginning when I first joined ATS I wrote a thread about what I thought were Chemtrails... how agressive and unpolite the debunkers were with me for my first thread... I was ripped to pieces... I can understand why some people are put off by sites such as ours when certain people show such a display of aggressivity and lack of respect and tolerance...

Good luck and now the ball is in your side of the court...

Kindest respects

Rodinus

Ps. Please be assured that in no way is my post an agressive response to your thread... just weighing both sides of the story up and being totally open minded
edit on 4/12/14 by Rodinus because: Phrase changed



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 03:57 AM
link   
a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

Michael Murphey spent $50,000 on making What In The World Are They Spraying.

And that "documentary" just further clouded an already cloudy subject.

He should have spent that money on hiring a plane designed to take air samples and approached the subject scientifically.

And why don't the skeptics do it? Well I guess we're already pretty convinced by the established science...oh and if a skeptic did go and get direct samples, do you really think the believers would accept the truth?



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 05:50 AM
link   
a reply to: Rodinus

Someone already did that for us. but it is actively ignored.

It's amazing, nobody is telling anyone it CANNOT happen, just that those white lines in the sky look like contrails, and until it can be explained why they cannot be contrails, those who believe in science will continue to believe they are most likely contrails.

It's like if people kept posing pictures of their kitties in the crypto forum claiming they were bigfoot. Someone would come along and explain they were wrong.

Look, Bigfoot!



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 06:09 AM
link   
a reply to: network dude

Thanks ND.

Going to take some time to visit that site today after lunch.

Couldn't help but notice this in the introduction of that link :


While the title of this post is “How to Debunk Chemtrails”, the actual debunking depends on what version of the theory needs debunking.

The most common version is simply that “normal” contrails should not persist, so the persistent trails must be “chemtrails”.

The simplest way to debunk this is to note that all known books on clouds and weather say that contrails sometimes persist.

After that, there’s a variety of common claims, and variations on those themes.

The best approach is to debunk the individual claim (such as: contrails only last a few seconds), rather than trying to debunk the entire theory.


Kindest respects

Rodinus


edit on 4/12/14 by Rodinus because: Word added



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 06:55 AM
link   

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Rodinus

Someone already did that for us. but it is actively ignored.

It's amazing, nobody is telling anyone it CANNOT happen, just that those white lines in the sky look like contrails, and until it can be explained why they cannot be contrails, those who believe in science will continue to believe they are most likely contrails.

It's like if people kept posing pictures of their kitties in the crypto forum claiming they were bigfoot. Someone would come along and explain they were wrong.

Look, Bigfoot!


And the ones who tell us that they are chemtrails simply because they must have chemicals of some kind in them (like H2O) would come back and say "well, his NAME is Bigfoot so I'm still right!"



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 07:00 AM
link   
a reply to: Chadwickus



I know a couple of people who have invested a lot of time and energy into the chemtrail conspiracy theory, as in trying to raise awareness in their local area, they are good people and mean well, it was through these guys that I began to examine the CT theory more closely. But when I raised questions and pointed out what I saw as flaws in the CT conspiracy the result was heated arguments. I'm still friends with these guys, but I don't discuss chemtrails with them anymore. I now see that they have become so entrenched in their views that the statement I often hear them say "I wish this wasn't real" has become a lie, they are so obsessed with proving that chemtrails are real that the truth has quietly slipped out the back door and over the wall at the bottom of the garden and probably won't return again.



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 07:01 AM
link   

originally posted by: Rodinus

originally posted by: 3danimator2014
Why?

Because you clearly believe that something quite dramatic and bad for the human population is being done on a daily basis and you are doing nothing about it.

You could be mankind's savior, become famous, earn lots of money and shut us debunkers up...

Insults have been hurled by both sides...sure. But far more from your side calling us paid shills, disinfo agents etc...

So, what an i suggesting? Why don't you:

- Go to lots of airports from around the world (organise yourselves) and get sample of jet fuel and take it to independent labs and get it tested for additives that should not be in there. This alone, if you find anything, will be a HUGE deal since it will be indicative of a major crime being committed.

- Track thousands of flights over months/a year that you think are spraying. Use binoculars and online tracking sites to record the flights, that way a pattern will emerge on which planes are spraying, when etc....

- Take thousands of photos of said planes, build a case file.

- While you are doing that, go online and get the air conditons for that day and your area. Consult Appleman charts for EACH specific day to see if long contrails might be due to weather conditions. Tie these to each day in a manner that can be easily referred to by anyone. Again, if something is going on, it should start to become evident.

- Keep a detailed not of the weather conditions on each day. Since long contrails form frequently ahead of rain, a big deviation from this might be proof of something nefarious happening.

- Hang around airport back roads (as much as you can without being arrested) and keep a detailed diary of which trucks are delivering what and to where. Is the fuel going to a weird location at the airport? Write it down. Maybe its somewhere where they are adding the stuff you think they are adding. Keep notes of what other trucks deliver what to that area.
Keep special note of any chemical trucks. If they are unmarked. Follow them when they leave. See where they originate. It might be a chemical company. Since no one has ever done thins, it might be this simple. The important thing here is to build a case, keep a note of times, when things are delivered. etc...

- A bit harder to do...but make friends with aircraft engineers in bars frequented by the staff at airports. Get to know em, speak to them. Build up a picture of ANYTHING they might find weird about the planes they work on. It might not reveal much, but ANY info they might be able to tell you might be the missing piece to the info you have collected above.

- This one is very important: Debunk the science of persistent contrails. Go to contrailscience.com and tell the owner of the site where he is wrong. If the science is wrong, PROVE IT. He has asked you countless times to do so and no one has. Now...i understand. You say "its not up to me to prove it", but if you want to save humanity, your children's futures, bite the bullet, take on the challenge and show us that it is US who have misunderstood 100 years of meteo science. This is exceedingly important thing to do as it will be the foundation of your case.
You have got to tell us where we have misunderstood about cirrus clouds not creating rain etc... You have to (pardon the pun) pick holes in our theory of the start and stopping on contrails due to gaps in the supersaturation of the air. Please please please (a hundred times) tell us what we are misunderstanding.

- Stop using known liars who routinely post doctored photos or easily debunked articles. If they are selling stuff on their websites or have a "donate" button, then don't use them as proof. They have an ulterior motive and will only harm your case. Stay as FAR away from these people as possible. They WILL harm your case. Come in clean and honest.

- Use your detailed log of the flights going over you and the weather on that day to prove that the checkerboard patterns you are witnessing that day are not simply due to regular jet airway patterns and wind blowing the previous planes contrails to the side a bit until the next one comes...I mean, it seems fairly straightforward, but armed with your detailed notes, you can throw egg in our faces.

- Finally, start a kickstarter fund or find a rich chemtrail believer to pay money to hire one of the many air sampling planes you can hire to fly into the chemtrails you see and take samples. Obviously samples from the ground cannot be used since there are way too many sources of pollution down here. And remember that pollution can travel for thousands of miles. Here in London we routinely wake up to find fine sand on our cars that has come over from the Sahara. Sure, this might be pricey, but if that guy could get 50K to make that silly film, i'm sure you can raise the money for a plane hire for the day.


Now, i realise that all this is extremely time consuming and some aspects can be expensive. BUT, think of the service to mankind you will be providing. You will saving 7 billion people. You familes, your kids, their future kids...the world will be in your debt for exposing this heinous crime against humanity. You will be rich. Famous. And everyone will owe you a debt.

How can you just sit there on your a**es while you watch the world getting poisoned?
How can you just sit there on your a**es while you watch your kids breathe in this filth?

Get organised and do the above. Notice i used the word "detailed" a lot...because it is with scrupulous note taking and collecting ALL the details that you can get the basta*ds who are poisoning you mums and dads and your newborn babies...

No one has said this so far in 20 pages of chemtrails posts...but this is the big one. If true, this is one of THE most important things to bring into the public eye. This isn't about moon landings or even 9/11...this would affect us all and i cant think of any greater conspiracy to uncover.

OR:


Just keep coming on here and posting links to youtube videos and unrelated patents..Your choice. Your move. Prove US wrong. Be the bigger man/woman and prove to us that you are right and we are being sprayed. This isn't a playground, this is serious (if you are right)

Good luck!



I remember right at the very beginning when I first joined ATS I wrote a thread about what I thought were Chemtrails... how agressive and unpolite the debunkers were with me for my first thread... I was ripped to pieces... I can understand why some people are put off by sites such as ours when certain people show such a display of aggressivity and lack of respect and tolerance...


Then maybe they should do what is being suggested instead of posting on sites such as ours?



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 07:09 AM
link   

originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe
You could say the same thing about a lot of conspiracy issues. Who is going to spend the money and countless hours doing the necessary research and investigations? Easier said than done. Much easier just to sit here and argue about it. I'm neither pro or con on the chemtrails, I don't know enough to make an informed decision. Heck, Monsanto and large corporations spray chemicals right under our noses, feed the cattle growth hormones, which are proven unhealthy for the cattle, so who is to say what is or is not going on "under the radar" ?

If it is true then uncovering it will make the person famous, they can write a book or get someone else to pen it for them. They will have TV and film rights about the story.

They will be RICH, never again have to work surely that is worth some effort ?

I would find it incredible that every single chemtrail believer is too lazy to become a millionaire by merely uncovering what they already believe.



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 07:10 AM
link   

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: IShotMyLastMuse
you fail to understand how things work in the conspiracy world:
people just want to hear that they are right, they don't want to offer any real solution to the problem.
it is "clear" that 9/11 was an inside job, and yet they sit all back and circlejerk. kinda like the occupy wallstreet movment, a bunch of people just sitting in a park, hoping things will change or justice will come via magic.
it's just about proving who is smarter.


Maybe so...but lets not start by pointing fingers and by insulting the other parties (i know you didn't mean it that way, don't worry)...


Well, as for me, maybe I do mean it that way... because I am reading all these comments and waiting, not very patiently, for somebody to mention Mr. Clifford Carnicom, who has been doing exactly what you are advocating in your original post here for 14 years, full-time. Have a nice day. Serious researchers on chemtrails know Mr. Carnicom's name, and yes, I have been following his methodical, unsensational, but totally convincing documentation of an immense body of real evidence for 14 years. But I do it in my spare time, because I also am a coward and an idiot. I supposedly have better things to do with my life than to dedicate it to a lost cause like 'saving the world'. Thank God, someone on a cross cared enough.



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 07:27 AM
link   
a reply to: beforemorning

I hate to be the one to say it but Carnicon Carnicom is regarded by many as a very questionable source.



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 07:45 AM
link   
a reply to: beforemorning

I had sent a message to Cliff asking him why he wouldn't take direct air samples of the chemtrails and end this back and forth bickering, but he claimed it would be too expensive and they couldn't raise that kind of money. When I sent him a link to where he could get this done and for how much, he didn't reply anymore. (actually, it was someone working for him that answered)

It's not terribly expensive, 4-6 thousand dollars including lab work. So for less than the cost of a quality vacation, the answers to the chemtrail conundrum could be answered. But if it was found that chemtrails are actually just contrails, what would Mr. Carnicom do for a living? (that is the key to this whole puzzle)



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