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BREAKING: No Charges in Eric Garner Chokehold Case for Officer

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posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 09:22 PM
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originally posted by: gorsestar
a reply to: Collateral

What facts have you brought forth that we don't already know? You're constructing the evidence in a way to fit you're law enforcement affinity. Additionally, you suggested a racial motivation.


You seem to have missed my earlier post when I said that I believe he is in the wrong and should be charged.




posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 09:24 PM
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originally posted by: Collateral
I am not suggesting that your opinion is irrelevant as you well know, however in the context of the legality of the situation, it is irrelevant.

If a police officer killed a bank robber, should he be charged with murder?


It's absolutely relevant. My opinion is that the law is wrong.

Depends on the circumstances. So in order to verify and hopefully avoid nitpicking I'll rephrase. Any law that allows police to kill an unarmed, non violent, non threatening individual is a broken law. This case was not self defense.



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 09:42 PM
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a reply to: FraggleRock

It is IRRELEVANT in the CONTEXT of what happened.

Would your argument as a lawyer be "I know thats the law your honour, but I dont agree with it" ?
How do you think that would fair?

As I have said all along, I agree that they were in the wrong. Did they intend to murder him? Not in my opinion.



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 09:56 PM
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a reply to: Collateral

I'm not a lawyer and I'm not arguing anything in a court of law so your hypothetical is irrelevant.

I'm simply sharing my opinion that the legality of this case needs to be seriously questioned. If the law wants to dictate that force which causes death is not deadly force then it is wrong. If you feel my opinion in this regard is irrelevant then feel free to ignore it and move on. Because the topic of this thread isn't whether you think my opinion is irrelevant but rather it's about a grand jury deciding not to press charges against a police officer who killed a man for selling cigarettes.



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 10:03 PM
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originally posted by: masqua
In the choke hold, it's not just air to the lungs that's stopped, but also blood to the brain.

Just saying'.


most chokes are not an actual choke as we think anyway.
youre right.
ive been grappling for more than 20 years. been in a lot of chokes and been choked plenty of times.
most chokes compress the arteries running down the side of the next.

you can choke someone to sleep in only a few seconds if you do it right.
this guy did not do it 'right' in that sense...

i think he might have been restricting the blood a bit but he was closing off the air.

it was clear the dude couldnt breathe.

saying 'i cant breathe' does not mean you cant get a drop of air in or out.
people know that though....
people like to be dense on purpose.

was he supposed to give him a percentage of difficulty?

this cop should be in jail.
i just wanted to expand on your comment about the choke



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 10:04 PM
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a reply to: FraggleRock

You are going so deep into semantics its almost not worth replying to anymore.

Nobody is arguing your right to an opinion.
Nobody is arguing the validity of your opinion in general conversation.

You can kill someone by turning an airconditioning unit too low...so is that excessive force? Where do you draw the line in the sand?



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 10:11 PM
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I'm noticing some serious sociopathic tendencies among those defending the cop in discussions of this incident. Saying things like, 'if you don't want to be killed by a cop, don't break the law.' Instant murder isn't the punishment for...any crime, letalone selling cigarettes individually without proper registration and taxation. If you want to live in a society where they can just kill you for breaking a law, find an overt authoritarian dictatorship. Killing-on-the-spot isn't how we punish crime, letalone something so petty as selling cigarettes. If you want it to be, hey it's a democracy. Go start a petition, to make the punishment for breaking the law an allowance for police to kill you without repurcussions. Good luck with that.
edit on 4-12-2014 by TheJourney because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 11:04 PM
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Here is my opinion on both these cases. What we are seeing in this case and the Mike Brown case are Grand Juries doing their job correctly BECAUSE the prosecutors have given them access to everything. What isn't fair is the countless cases of cops trumping up charges on people, then, the prosecutor takes it to a Grand Jury and doesn't give the jurors any exculpatory evidence and this is where you get the term ' you can indict a ham sandwich '.

If you have trumped up charges, have money and no real criminal record then a good attorney can get you out of it. But if you have trumped up charges, no money and no real criminal record counties will bank on you for settling to lessor offenses.

Now, I realize that neither the Garner or Brown cases qualify for either one of the scenario's mentioned above because one resisted arrest and the other tried to take a cops gun.

All day long I've heard talking heads make light of the fact that Garner had 31 arrests. I even heard the mother of Mike Brown say if her son had stolen cigerlla's that's something they could have taken care of. Huh? 31 arrests for anything is ridiculous.Lol My God. At what point does someone get labeled a habitual offender? And with Mike Brown he had just stolen from one man and moments later trash talking to a cop who told him to get out of the middle of the road. One of the witnesses that testified in that case said her and her husband had just passed Mike Brown and his friend and she told her husband those boys need to get out of the road. The man and woman saw most of everything that happened. She saw the cop pull up and say something to MB and his friend and even though she didn't hear what the cop said she knew the cop was telling Mike Brown to get out of the middle of the road.

Both of these men would be alive if they had just followed the directions of law enforcement. We all know they are paid to enforce the law. That is their job. Both of these men comprehended what was being told to them and they opted to take the road less traveled and it cost them.

One more thing - thousands and thousands are demonstrating, but I can guarantee you that millions and millions feel the jurors got it right.

It's sad that these guys are dead but they had a hand in their own deaths.
edit on 4-12-2014 by Myrtales Instinct because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 11:23 PM
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He was killed because too many cops have too big an ego,and was desirous to take a big guy down perhaps if he had lived they would have been high fiving each other all the way back to the precinct ..man you see how I took that big mfkr down..like booyah!! it would have been a good day,too bad it ended very very badly.
and I am surprise that Glenn Beck,Al Sharpton,Andrew Napolitano even big daddy bear himself Bill O Riley is not with the prosecutor on this, do anyone saw pigs flying where you live.
:



posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 12:06 AM
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a reply to: Spider879

Papa bear bill agreed the grand jury got it wrong?!



posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 12:32 AM
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a reply to: Sremmos80

This is just ridiculous rhetoric.

Barry couldn't have made it into office with white vote.

Plus Barry is half white silly.



posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 01:08 AM
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a reply to: Collateral


You can kill someone by turning an airconditioning unit too low...so is that excessive force? Where do you draw the line in the sand?


Reductio ad absurdum.

Is that seriously the counter you want to make to my opinion that force which leads to death is deadly force? That I would entertain the notion that death by air conditioning would constitute as excessive force?



posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 02:26 AM
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To give you guys a picture of what is happening here in NYC.. it is like this:

(I am telling you this from first hand experience.)

In many of the black and Hispanic neighborhoods here, there is a heavy police presence. I mean REALLY HEAVY.

You have these things in residential neighborhoods.. especially the projects:



Some people call them 'Stormtroopers'.

---

You have kids playing on the sidewalk, and police just standing there, doing absolutely nothing. Imagine that, as a kid you can't even play games without police watching over you. In certain neighborhoods, there are like 2 or 3 police on EVERY BLOCK!

I was in the Bronx one day and I saw these three kids just standing there doing nothing, just hanging out. 2 kids on a bike, and one holding a skateboard. They looked like nice kids. They were just standing there talking.

A police car rolls up. Starts questioning them about what they are doing.. Next thing you know, they are up against the wall and the police are going through their pockets.

It's really ridiculous. And we are paying the salaries for these people with our taxes to do this..

---

Apparently, the establishment is scared #less of Black and Hispanic people here in NYC. Maybe because they are outnumbered, and of course the people who run things live in these parts.



posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 02:29 AM
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I can understand the people's frustrations if you are Black or Latino.



posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 04:21 AM
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NY city should adopt a new policy, no short cops walking the beat! Those little cops always have the tendencies to go overboard, and it takes four or five of them to do what just one tall intelligent officer can handle by himself, put those little guys behind a desk, e.g. answer the phones, sharpen pencils making copies! a reply to: IAMTAT



posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 05:12 AM
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a reply to: IAMTAT

I am so glad I didn't take a job offer in the USA. So much violence and oppression from your own government, people who are supposed to protect and serve.



posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 06:56 AM
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I brought this up with a young white firefighter. This is the guy who said he'll only believe what the grand jury said in the Brown case. He said Garner caused his own death by not doing exactly as the police say. After he strolled out the door, the white man who was making a charitable contribution said the cops involved should be strung up. A white lady with a backwoods accent walked by and heard him. She angrily added that it's time for the police pay for what they've been doing and then walked out. Seems a storm is brewing.
edit on 5-12-2014 by gentledissident because: bad puctuation



posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 07:08 AM
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originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Spider879

Papa bear bill agreed the grand jury got it wrong?!

Oh yes he did..I am asking again are there pigs flying.



posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 07:30 AM
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a reply to: FraggleRock

According to you, that is deadly force as it resulted in a death.

You can punch someone in the chest and kill them. Is that deadly force?

You can push someone and they trip and die. Is that deadly force?

You are the one who wants to define what deadly force is so you tell me where it starts and where it stops.



posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 07:49 AM
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originally posted by: Grovit

originally posted by: masqua
In the choke hold, it's not just air to the lungs that's stopped, but also blood to the brain.

Just saying'.


most chokes are not an actual choke as we think anyway.
youre right.
ive been grappling for more than 20 years. been in a lot of chokes and been choked plenty of times.
most chokes compress the arteries running down the side of the next.

you can choke someone to sleep in only a few seconds if you do it right.
this guy did not do it 'right' in that sense...

i think he might have been restricting the blood a bit but he was closing off the air.

it was clear the dude couldnt breathe.

saying 'i cant breathe' does not mean you cant get a drop of air in or out.
people know that though....
people like to be dense on purpose.

was he supposed to give him a percentage of difficulty?

this cop should be in jail.
i just wanted to expand on your comment about the choke


I think there is some confusion about all of this.

Having gone through training three times to be able to deliver emergency medical aid, I know that just because a victim can speak doesn't mean they cannot breathe ADEQUATELY. There is such a thing as suffocation through obstruction, and it doesn't need to be complete. If there is not enough oxygen to function, you may still be able to speak while being suffocated.

And of course, as you rightly point out, the location of the carotid artery is important here, this is the main artery delivering oxygenated blood to the brain, and if it is obstructed (as would most likely be the case in this instance) that will cause unconsciousness, and combined with lack of oxygen to the lungs, this is exacerbated.

Not only was he being prevented from getting adequate oxygen to his lungs by the choking hold, what oxygen he did have in his system was being prevented from reaching the brain by blocking of the carotid. Combine this with struggling for his life, and having asthma, it's really not so surprising that he died so quickly.

There is absolutely no way this could be seen as anything else, and that's why it was deemed that he was killed. I cannot for the life of me understand how any jury could come to any other conclusion other than the officer who administered that choke hold killed him, this is a fact that cannot be denied, and therefore people have a damn right to be outraged.

In addition to the person administering that hold being tried for murder, every other officer there needs to be fired, at least. When a person is in their custody, they ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR WELFARE.

A suspect in custody has to be given care and attention, especially medical attention, because they no longer have the ability to seek it themselves. The fact that none of those officers delivered BASIC medical aid when it became clear there was something wrong means they all failed in their BASIC duties. None of them are fit to wear any kind of uniform, and every single one of them needs to be fired immediately for allowing a person in their care to die on the side walk.

I don't like violence and I don't like violent protest (primarily because in these cases the racists instantly use it as a reason to justify the murder) but I completely understand the rage people must be feeling. It's right that people should be enraged, this is massive injustice and it needs to be fixed.
edit on 5-12-2014 by Rocker2013 because: (no reason given)



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