USAF SAUCER PROGRAM DECLASSIFIED not the Avro

a reply to: StratosFear

That would be nice, unfortunately all the really cool stuff will probably just be buried in the desert. Never to be seen again, especially to foriegn eyes.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: StratosFear

I know what you mean. I'd love to see another Johnson working and what they could do with new technology. Especially some of the stuff I've heard about that's hidden.

Well its simple really, we need to create an act of god to bring this technology into the light of day. But the average Joe or Jessica is not ready or responsible enough to handle that technology so we must do without.

a reply to: StratosFear

Sadly. A couple could start a revolution that would start an economic boom for decades.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Wouldn't it be nice if we cornered the metamaterial market via space and used that as the new backing for the dollar instead of oil. Then we being the only ones capable of making the really good stuff hoard it over the rest of the world at a premium. Want quantum boundary layer effect material...pay us. Pay us A LOT. No more economic worries for the USA for another 100 years.

Also, I'm a fan of Victor Klimov's work over at Los Alamos.

originally posted by: Tardacus
a reply to: network dude

That`s an excellent observation, why would they even think that a saucer could fly and be controlled unless.... they had already seen one in controlled flight.

People were experimenting with all sorts of ideas - practical and otherwise. Aerodynamically they are the ideal shape for taking advantage of the coanda effect - and Coanda himself designed one in the 1930's.

It never required "alien tech"

a reply to: Zaphod58

You and or the person in control of your ATS account are the sole reason I will get little sleep tonight. Research to be done, subjects to catch up on, things to find, six and a half hours until work holy crap! Having never heard of "Pumpkinseed" until this very evening, and behold a Bing search yields an ATS thread on the subject as the third result. I`m going to slink away to scour the web for a different reason to find a page or document concerning subjects discussed here.

I`m proof you can spend all sort of time pursuing black projects and still not be aware of some and keen to others.

a reply to: StratosFear

It was a wild design. Never got off the ground, and from what I heard was a stone cold bitch just to get into the wind tunnel. At that point it turned out to be pretty much uncontrollable.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: StratosFear

Sadly. A couple could start a revolution that would start an economic boom for decades.

Without understanding the implications I would be inclined to ask, would that be a bad thing? Or a necessary thing? Your words seem to hint at a good thing with a bad ending, or good for some bad for most scenario.

If so it points to a breakaway technology much further back
than I certainly considered. Or it conjures real ideas of reverse engineering.
So which is it Air Force?

Because in 1956 a platform with a ceiling of 100k
and Mach 5.1 negates the reason for any plane with lesser
abilities. Including planes developed much later.
Like now later..

a reply to: StratosFear

A couple could be extremely good. But then I know of a couple that could be utterly horrifying to let out.

a reply to: Sammamishman

Burying in the sand would be a step up from outright destruction, it could at least be somewhat salvaged and restored for display purposes. I`ll bet those desert sands still hold a ton of cool secret stuff out there in the Southwestern part of the US. But of course anything still too sensitive ought to stay hidden, but how cool would it be to see HAVE BLUE and other technology demonstrators up close and get some first hand stories from the engineers and test pilots that flew them?

a reply to: StratosFear

They might as well be destroyed. They will never see the light of day again, unless some aviation archaeology expedition is given access to Area 51. Hey maybe we all can form one!
They don't even know where they all are. I've even heard stories of excavation for new buildings that uncovered old test aircraft.
There are reported 2 Have Blue prototypes that are buried out there after they crashed somewhere during testing.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: StratosFear

It was a wild design. Never got off the ground, and from what I heard was a stone cold bitch just to get into the wind tunnel. At that point it turned out to be pretty much uncontrollable.

From the little bit I've read and seen so far that seems to be the conclusion I`d reach but some stuff sounds like the classic "Aurora" type sightings with pulse detonation engines. Even uncontrollable airframes get up there somehow, as unstable as the F-16 Falcon is they found a way to benefit from it. I really do not know enough about it just yet to say much.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: StratosFear

A couple could be extremely good. But then I know of a couple that could be utterly horrifying to let out.

You know what I and others would ask but I wont. Many times reading subjects that fall into top secret US knowledge there are stories of people who have been told or discovered things that shocked them to the core, changed them somehow. I would very much like to know what those things are one day, considering what is to be found on ATS its probably not that far fetched. I really didn't know how to respond to that but thought I should. Thanks for the info.

a reply to: StratosFear

They put a PDE on a design once. It sucked. Heh. On paper it should have been Mach 7-8, but in reality it barely broke Mach 1.5, and was less efficient than a standard turbofan.

a reply to: Sammamishman

Ive heard that as well as other stories about crashed aircraft. IIRC there is an organization that checks out old crash site with metal detectors.

I`m pretty big into restoring old cars(and other machines if the price is right) and desert finds are some of the best to work with as they do not rust and corrode. So naturally I figured it must be similar to restore an aircraft to at least be a good display, even if the canopy glass had to be blacked out like some permanent static displays outside military bases. I would volunteer to get onto Area 51 and dig around until my Geiger counter starts clicking up a storm. You`d think a record of burial locations was kept somewhere for things like that.

originally posted by: StratosFear


You know what I and others would ask but I wont. Many times reading subjects that fall into top secret US knowledge there are stories of people who have been told or discovered things that shocked them to the core, changed them somehow. I would very much like to know what those things are one day, considering what is to be found on ATS its probably not that far fetched. I really didn't know how to respond to that but thought I should. Thanks for the info.

A lot of it is amazing. Stuff that makes you go "holy crap that's amazing!"

But then you run into that one that stops you cold. On the one hand it's amazing, but on the other you realize that it could annihilate huge areas without even trying.

originally posted by: StratosFear
a reply to: Sammamishman

Ive heard that as well as other stories about crashed aircraft. IIRC there is an organization that checks out old crash site with metal detectors.

I`m pretty big into restoring old cars(and other machines if the price is right) and desert finds are some of the best to work with as they do not rust and corrode.

Me too, I've got my 55' F-100 in the desert waiting for me to bring it back when I have a dry place to put it.

So naturally I figured it must be similar to restore an aircraft to at least be a good display, even if the canopy glass had to be blacked out like some permanent static displays outside military bases. I would volunteer to get onto Area 51 and dig around until my Geiger counter starts clicking up a storm. You`d think a record of burial locations was kept somewhere for things like that.

If you can find one out there, look me up.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Is that classified? I saw some test footage from an Orion project demonstrator and that thing takes off like a bat out of hell using about 12 good explosions. So maybe good for vertical acceleration but not so much level flight?

OP: Sorry for the derailment this all sort of falls under top secret projects. Not necessarily just solely US projects for those elsewhere.

a reply to: StratosFear

Not really, it's one of those if you look in the right places you can find it. Not advertised, but not classified. They work, don't get me wrong. They just don't live up to their billing. You're better off with a regular engine.

a reply to: Sammamishman

If it ever becomes allowed one day and things change away from a money based society then it might be possible. I`d love to know more antique aircraft are still around somewhere, far as I know 3 Huns are still flight worthy as of 2011, 2 Fs and a D.