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Religious consequences of Israel jewish state proposal

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posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 04:15 AM
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With the myriad challenges the Israeli government currently faces – regional turmoil, unrest in Jerusalem, and opposition to a highly contentious budget — this might seem like an interesting time for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to promulgate a new law defining Israel’s identity as “the nation state of the Jewish people.” The bill, which was supposed to have been voted on this Wednesday but has now been delayed, would recognize Jewish religious law as an inspiration for legislation, and affirm that, “The right to the fulfillment of national self-determination within the State of Israel is unique to the Jewish people.”

At first glance, the timing for this bill is odd. The past months have seen the most unrest in years among Israel’s Palestinian population. The murder of 16 year-old Muhammad Abu Khdeir, who was kidnapped and set on fire in revenge for the murder of three Israeli teenagers in July, have fueled tensions that are high after decades of neglect at the hands of the Israeli government. Anti-Arab demagoguery by Israeli politicians, and anti-Arab attacks by Israeli citizens who take that demagoguery seriously, is on the upswing In the view of Israel’s non-Jewish citizens, who make up some 20% of the population, the new law would make clear that they are second-class citizens.

The move is understandable, however, when one takes into account that Netanyahu needs to protect his right flank from rising contenders like Naftali Bennett, Minister of the Economy, who recently wrote a New York Times op-ed declaring the two-state solution dead. Netanyahu is also pressured by critics within his own Likud Party, where he finds himself representing the left-leaning camp in an increasingly right-wing party.

Israeli centrists and liberals, including former Israeli president Shimon Peres, have roundly criticized the proposed law. “The bill will damage the country both at home and abroad and it will erode the democratic principles of the State of Israel,” Peres said, calling it “an attempt to undermine the Declaration of Independence for political interests.” Israel’s current president, Reuven Rivlin, who has been waging an admirable campaign against racism in Israel, also criticized the proposed law. Leaders of two centrist parties in Netanyahu’s governing coalition, Tzipi Livni of Hatnua and Yair Lapid of Yesh Atid, have said that they will oppose the bill.


Source : Reuters

Add to that perspective, the recent governmental cracks in Israel : Israeli leader orders ministers out, sets stage for new elections

The point I would like to bring to your attention about this actuality is, the religious implications for Judaism itself.
Should Israel consider proclaiming itself as the Jewish state, we would have to consider that the we are living in world where the Jewish people have their own land according to the most distributed understanding of their scriptures.
What further expectation - but local teritorialism - about their return on the Holy Land should the Jews then expect ?
None - the fulfilment of the return of the Jews on the Holy Land should probably be understood as complete.

What are the practical implications of this ?
Palestinians - even Israeli citizens - are not Jews ...
Would Jews from the diaspora gain dual-citizenship with Israel ?
Then, there is no need for Israel to expect any further prophet.
Since the prophet is the one who is supposed to bring the judgement upon Israel and allow their return on the Holy Land.

Should Jewish people want to consider that they should still have a prophet. I'd like to debate with you about the fact that they already got two. Jesus, and the other one.
The one who's crime led ultimately to the very uncomfortable situation the world and Israel now has to deal with.

The creation of modern Israel dates back to the end of WWII. The holocaust has been viewed as the reason of the creation of modern Israel, therefore opponents of Israel existence tend negate the historical fact. This crime would then have been the judgement applied on the Jews as of their scriptures.

The embarrassing problem comes when you consider that it's actually the prophet who delivers the judgement.
This would then mean that the instigator of this manslaughter, would be ... the prophet of the Jews.
A Jewish individual

Everything fits.
Should Israel proclaim itself as a nation defined by ethnic proselytism then it would make perfect sense that they get this guy as prophet.
Any thoughts ?
edit on 3-12-2014 by theultimatebelgianjoke because: Spelling




posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 08:57 AM
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I'm not religious, so I can't say I agree on anything with you. IMO, the Jewish scriptures not worth the paper they are written on.
The "National Law" is an attempt by right-wing Israeli politicians to constitutionally anchor the Jewish nature of Israel.
Bibi is suggesting a "softened" version of the law but still an anti democratic one.
For example, the following part which is present in the Israeli proclamation of independence is excluded and replaced by a vague formulation:
"equal social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex".
The good news - this proposition is a political tool and have very slim chances to actually pass.
The bad news - In March, Bibi will be elected again and will have an even more right-wing government than now.
Not to much hope for Israeli/Palestinian people.

By the way, every Jew from the diaspora, already entitled to Israeli citizenship.



posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 10:28 AM
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a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

Imho this is a step in the wrong direction. Way too drastic.

From what i know, the citizens of Israel are not happy with this, not one bit.



posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 12:00 PM
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a reply to: MaxMech
a reply to: combatmaster

Thank you for your replies. I wasn't expecting much religious answers, I should have posted elsewhere to draw more attention for that part.
The problem is that the topic stretches across religious and political views, as often.
But no Zealot showed up either to manifest his obfuscation ...

Israel is indeed likely to look further to the far right after these elections.
Another interesting article :
Here's What Israel's Early Elections Are All About



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 06:39 AM
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originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke
March 17 date expected for new Israel elections


Interesting, the total solar eclipse between the 4 blood moons is on March, 20.



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 07:43 AM
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a reply to: Emma3

For me, it all started with this : thread.



posted on Dec, 9 2014 @ 04:44 AM
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Jesus or Adolf ?



Pick your own version of the cross.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 11:17 AM
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Rabbi David Rosen Reveals The Most Dangerous Thing For Religion



What is the biggest danger facing religion today? One could make an argument for declining numbers or morality debates, but Rabbi David Rosen says there's something else that looms largest.

The International Director of Interreligious Affairs at the American Jewish Committee, Rosen spoke with HuffPost Live's Alyona Minkovski during the World Economic Forum in Davos about the major challenges facing religion today.

"The most dangerous thing for religion is when it's married to political power," Rosen argued. "When it's an instrument of political power then it betrays its own message."



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 04:42 PM
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posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 01:32 PM
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This news is somewhat related to this blog: Is Israel a Jewish State? While this concept is doable, it entails utmost complexity. Investigating and confirming that you're indeed a Jewish (and your ancestors were) isn't a walk in the park.



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 04:01 AM
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a reply to: trishsfetish

The problem is the persepective you want to have on the question :
Is it an ethnical/racist consideration that you feel the need to enforce ?
Is it a religious belief ?
Is it a geostrategical question ?
Is it a matter of big money ?

It's hard to figure out and since it's about the jews, it's difficult to speak for them. Let's ask some jewish philosopher on the topic :



Extract from show 'Bibliothèque Médicis'
Public Sénat
21st June 2013

J : For the first time, you confess a few family stories : your sister Véronique – can I talk about it ? - your sister, who convert to christianity.
BHL : You do it … You can apparently.
J : Have you been surprised ?
BHL : Yes, I've been surprised, yes.
J : You can't do anything against her choice ? You went along. The christ …
BHL : Well, listen, she's my younger sister – a lot lot lot younger than I'm – but she is legally responsible. She does what she believes she should do.
The only point through which this relates to me is …
First there are questions of …
I'm Jewish and deeply Jewish. And my judaism is a way to remain in line with a certain legacy.
J : And universality ?
BHL : Yes legacy and … universality of course. And …
J : OK. Legacy.
BHL : So I must consider that by doing she breaks some legacy chain. She helps breaking it.
And this come at the time when I happen to be struggling with myself …
Well, This little sister name is Véronique – the daughter of my mother and father – and I just happened to learn about her conversion at the time when I'm chasing all museums of France and Europe in order to find portraits of Véronique's – thus the young jewish girls present at the 6th station of christ in order to wipe his face. And thus printed the christ face on a towel.
For me it's a key moment because that's the moment where iconography – previously evilish – becomes holy.
And then I learn about this news and it fells on me like I'm thunderstruck …
J : Véronique Levi maybe understands better judaism and the jews today ?
BHL : …
J : Well, ...





posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 03:01 AM
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posted on Mar, 18 2015 @ 05:20 AM
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originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke

"The most dangerous thing for religion is when it's married to political power," Rosen argued. "When it's an instrument of political power then it betrays its own message."


The Jewish religion, the Islamic religion, Catholicism - Jerusalem, Mecca, Medina, Rome.....

They are all married to politics. Trying to single out one religion while ignoring the others is just naïve.

Going to war over religion is like fighting over who has the better imaginary friend.
edit on 18-3-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2015 @ 05:29 AM
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I agree with you but unfortunately nowadays, it is the central source of violence and hate in our world ...
I found very hyprocritical from the Rabbi to issue that statement towards the Arab world without considering that this should be applicable to Israel as well.
It is the Jewish people who first introduced the separation beween 'state' and 'church' ...
Now the Israelis have voted, let's see how the new government takes shape in the upcomming days and what will be the steps it takes about the Jewish state proposal.

Thank you for your post.




edit on 18-3-2015 by theultimatebelgianjoke because: filled out



posted on Mar, 18 2015 @ 12:17 PM
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posted on Apr, 1 2015 @ 05:25 PM
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originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke


With the myriad challenges the Israeli government currently faces – regional turmoil, unrest in Jerusalem, and opposition to a highly contentious budget — this might seem like an interesting time for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to promulgate a new law defining Israel’s identity as “the nation state of the Jewish people.” The bill, which was supposed to have been voted on this Wednesday but has now been delayed, would recognize Jewish religious law as an inspiration for legislation, and affirm that, “The right to the fulfillment of national self-determination within the State of Israel is unique to the Jewish people.”

At first glance, the timing for this bill is odd. The past months have seen the most unrest in years among Israel’s Palestinian population. The murder of 16 year-old Muhammad Abu Khdeir, who was kidnapped and set on fire in revenge for the murder of three Israeli teenagers in July, have fueled tensions that are high after decades of neglect at the hands of the Israeli government. Anti-Arab demagoguery by Israeli politicians, and anti-Arab attacks by Israeli citizens who take that demagoguery seriously, is on the upswing In the view of Israel’s non-Jewish citizens, who make up some 20% of the population, the new law would make clear that they are second-class citizens.

The move is understandable, however, when one takes into account that Netanyahu needs to protect his right flank from rising contenders like Naftali Bennett, Minister of the Economy, who recently wrote a New York Times op-ed declaring the two-state solution dead. Netanyahu is also pressured by critics within his own Likud Party, where he finds himself representing the left-leaning camp in an increasingly right-wing party.

Israeli centrists and liberals, including former Israeli president Shimon Peres, have roundly criticized the proposed law. “The bill will damage the country both at home and abroad and it will erode the democratic principles of the State of Israel,” Peres said, calling it “an attempt to undermine the Declaration of Independence for political interests.” Israel’s current president, Reuven Rivlin, who has been waging an admirable campaign against racism in Israel, also criticized the proposed law. Leaders of two centrist parties in Netanyahu’s governing coalition, Tzipi Livni of Hatnua and Yair Lapid of Yesh Atid, have said that they will oppose the bill.


Source : Reuters

Add to that perspective, the recent governmental cracks in Israel : Israeli leader orders ministers out, sets stage for new elections

The point I would like to bring to your attention about this actuality is, the religious implications for Judaism itself.
Should Israel consider proclaiming itself as the Jewish state, we would have to consider that the we are living in world where the Jewish people have their own land according to the most distributed understanding of their scriptures.
What further expectation - but local teritorialism - about their return on the Holy Land should the Jews then expect ?
None - the fulfilment of the return of the Jews on the Holy Land should probably be understood as complete.

What are the practical implications of this ?
Palestinians - even Israeli citizens - are not Jews ...
Would Jews from the diaspora gain dual-citizenship with Israel ?
Then, there is no need for Israel to expect any further prophet.
Since the prophet is the one who is supposed to bring the judgement upon Israel and allow their return on the Holy Land.

Should Jewish people want to consider that they should still have a prophet. I'd like to debate with you about the fact that they already got two. Jesus, and the other one.
The one who's crime led ultimately to the very uncomfortable situation the world and Israel now has to deal with.

The creation of modern Israel dates back to the end of WWII. The holocaust has been viewed as the reason of the creation of modern Israel, therefore opponents of Israel existence tend negate the historical fact. This crime would then have been the judgement applied on the Jews as of their scriptures.

The embarrassing problem comes when you consider that it's actually the prophet who delivers the judgement.
This would then mean that the instigator of this manslaughter, would be ... the prophet of the Jews.
A Jewish individual

Everything fits.
Should Israel proclaim itself as a nation defined by ethnic proselytism then it would make perfect sense that they get this guy as prophet.
Any thoughts ?


I am in agreement that it is very problematic.

The Israeli apologists, especially the right wingers in the West, always claim "Israel is the only secular democracy that allows equal rights for all citizens (Arab or Jewish)." That cannot be true if it gets characterized as "Jewish."



posted on Apr, 24 2015 @ 03:36 AM
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The Jewishness of the state in exchange for a state on paper



According to multiple sources, the relevant international decision-making capitals will launch a political and diplomatic campaign related to the peace process and two-state solution once Benjamin Netanyahu is finished forming his new government in the next two or three weeks. We know that there is currently a French draft resolution in the UN Security Council, and the Washington Post newspaper leaked news of a similar resolution proposed by the Obama administration to the international community, or rather, the administration instructed its friends to propose it in the hope that it would pressure Netanyahu's fourth government, perhaps pushing it to respond to calls for peace and a final solution.

Predictions regarding the Israelis' willingness and desire to end the occupation and enable the Palestinian people to establish their independent state on the 1967 borders are very pessimistic. There is a growing conviction amongst the European community, and even in the US, that there is no "Israeli partner" in the peace process. Of course, there are serious questions regarding the state of the "Palestinian partner" including the question regarding the future of the PA after Mahmoud Abbas and the issue of internal Palestinian divisions.

However, the predictions that still raise questions and divisions among observers and diplomats alike are those related to what Obama will be doing in the remaining 20 months of his term. Some believe that this is the "golden time" for any president who serves two consecutive terms to achieve a "breakthrough" in foreign policy dossiers. There is also some talk of "a window of opportunity" lasting eight months before the president becomes a "lame duck". There is a camp that refers to Obama's deep desire to pay Netanyahu back for his actions in Congress in the Security Council, while there are those who believe it will be very difficult for Obama to deal two heavy blows to Israel at the same time, i.e. the nuclear deal with Iran and an international peace resolution. The opinions and predictions are endless in this regard.

...



posted on Jul, 8 2015 @ 06:43 AM
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The "Jewish State Law" is back in the news !
Just weeks after the rightmost Israeli government was put in place, MK Benny Begin (Likud) has submitted a diluted version, called, "Basic Law: The State of Israel."

MK Benny Begin proposes bare-bones ‘Jewish State bill’

This new version cannot be brought to the Ministerial Committee for Legislation and the Knesset until October, unless Begin requests to waive the required 45-day waiting period.
The main difference with this version of the bill is, that it's now stated that Israel is a democracy and all that citizens, regardless of religion or nationality, have equal individual rights. But only the Jewish people has the right to national self-determination in the State of Israel.
So all people are equals as long as they're Jewish and Israel follows a path similar to the nations that felt the need to ensure their democratic aspect with proper labelling : Democratic People's Republic of Korea (aka North Korea), Democratic republic of the Congo ...



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