Transgender girl awarded $75,000 in lawsuit over school bathroom access, page 11

posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 09:21 PM

link

posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 09:29 PM

link

Hmmm it appears there are more people in this world than I thought who give a crap about the poo being dumped in the next stall to them.

I know I ALWAYS kick down the stall doors to check there is no transgendered person in there pooing.

Thanks

Gryphon66

posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 09:50 PM

link

a reply to: Grovit

Thanks for restoring my faith in humanity at least one tiny incremental bit.

Now, see? We have even less understanding about why some folks are introverted and extraverted than we do about gender identity.

Do you think there's a part of your brain that makes you different? Was it something that happened to you as a child?

Or ... were you just "born this way?" And it's nobody's danged business why you are the way you are.

There is no "reason" why folks are trans* or why some folks are straight, or gay or what have you?

Brain structure and chemistry are one solid focal point for "difference." As is prenatal development.

As is genetic inheritance ... as are some developmental/environmental conditions.

You obviously have strong feelings about "being alone" ... and I can tell you, that probably no more than you understand the "why" of your need for solitude, trans* people can't tell you "why" they identify the way they do.

It just is. We are who and what we are. We should all have that right.

Good talking to you Grovit, sorry if i became overbearing at any point.

American-philosopher

posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 09:51 PM

link

a reply to: rubbertramp

Well I think depending on the age/grade the student is in different situations might have to play out. parents or guardians should be notified and the principal/faculty leaders should seat down with the parents and tell them whats going on

so no you can't just up and diagnose a kid without parental approval. that's gotta be left tot he parents right??

Grovit

posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 10:29 PM

link

originally posted by: Gryphon66

Thanks for restoring my faith in humanity at least one tiny incremental bit.

at least you have another shred of faith for humanity, i still have none

Do you think there's a part of your brain that makes you different?
i lean towards a childhood event. i have been this way my entire life as far back as i can remember. i just dont care about people all that much...of course not all people. i love my kids. i love my wife...other than that, i dont have much use for people

Was it something that happened to you as a child?
if i had to wager a guess i would say yes..between an event i am getting ready to tell you about and my father being the biggest abusive dick on the planet...when i was 7 someone broke into out house(i still remember his name). he was tuned up on pcp and saw my dads bumper sticker on his car. harley davidson. well this was florida and even at night it was hot so we had the front door open but the screen door locked. he kicked it in and came into the house pointing a gun and demanding my dad give him the keys to his sled. a sled he didnt have mind you. he hit my dad on the head with the butt of the gun and when he did the clip fell out. my mom dove on the clip and the guy and my father started fighting...it went from the front room to the hallway to the kitchen...it looked like the manson family massacre scene. the phone was ripped out of the wall. fridge was knocked over. blood everywhere. my mom was struggling with him as my dad was fighting him. my mom got pushed into the sink and grabbed a knife that was in the sink and jumped on his back and started sawing at his throat. he still wouldnt go down. i was doing nothing but screaming. my mom then grabbed me and ran me across the street to the neighbors, dropped me in their front door and told them to call the cops and then ran back into our house.....from there i dont know how long it was but the cops show up...i also remember my dad was sitting on the porch holding a shirt on his head with blood running down his face and the medics that were there were all tending to the guy that just broke into the house.....that is pretty much my first memory in life. i have fleeting memories but i think its not even that i remember other things but i think i do cause i have heard stories.....i may be wrong but i think that event caused me to be the way i am

Or ... were you just "born this way?" And it's nobody's danged business why you are the way you are.
dont think i was born this way but im not for sure. and it is nobodies business unless i decide to tell them like i am talking to you now

It just is. We are who and what we are. We should all have that right.
we do all have that right and we should. everyone has the right to be happy, safe, secure

Good talking to you Grovit, sorry if i became overbearing at any point.

nope. its fine. good talking with you too. i love to debate.
i just get uptight when there is an implication that i am lying or that i feel a certain way but dont want to say it and act like i dont...it bothers me because im not that way.
if i say i feel this way or that, then i do...no games and lying bull #.
thats why i got uptight.
im honest to a fault(cause i will be honest with people no matter if they like it or if it hurts their feelings)

so when i say i am trying to understand i really am trying to understand.

they way you compared it to my need to not be around people really helps but i still dont totally get it. it may be one of those things that i just cant get.

i would never ridicule someone for being a certain way or dressing/acting a certain way....

i also feel certain ways about things cause if my kids. my perspectives changed on just about everything when my son was born and then again 18 years later when my daughter was born.
i keep thinking about my daughter in this situation.

not the so much how would she feel if a transgender girl used the same bathroom as her cause first, i dont think she will care..my wife and i will not tolerate her 'hating' people over that.
it is more about this issue leading to the argument for unisex or gender neutral(or whatever the hell the term is bathrooms)

i am absolutely fine with there being unisex bathrooms in schools as long as there are male/female bathrooms as well.

a few people have said this girl has the right to privacy and she does. they said she has the right to feel safe and she does.
so do all the other girls though.
i know i speak in a lot of what if's but they are legit concerns..its not like any of my what if's could never happen.

my head goes to the asshole kid that likes to be 'cool'(you know the type) by picking on the girls...for whatever reason. my wife got picked on day in and day out in school cause she was fat. kids were cruel to her and especially the boys...belittling her in the hallway, spit balls in her hair during class, etc etc.

so i think about that boy following my daughter into the unisex bathroom cause he is perfectly within his rights and allowed to do so. i think about him tormenting my daughter as she goes to the bathroom or handles her monthly business.
thats not right.....my daughter and all the other girls have a right to privacy and safety as well. i dont want it to be easier for the bullies. i dont want there to be yet another place with no teachers and probably not many other students to torment my daughter.

that was the real crux of my issue with the unisex bathrooms in school. i didnt want a school, or a state, or a nationwide policy to go into effect to have unisex bathrooms only because of a few(in the grand scheme of things) isolated issues of a transgender girl not being able to use the ladies bathroom and then taking it to court.

i have no issue with unisex bathrooms in schools, just not only unisex bathrooms.

as far as every other place in the world besides schools where adults go, then fine. unisex it up all the way.
its different when we are talking about adults.

so that was my issue with the bathroom thing.

as far as not understanding it, i really didnt. honestly, i still dont but you did help a lot with the comparison. i never thought it was just her wanting to wear a dress. never once thought it was as simple as that.

its hard to wrap my head around how a person born a boy feels they are a girl.

as far as me saying she chooses to live as a girl, i will admit now(after your comparison) that it was wrong of me to say she is choosing it.
i mean i do not choose to flip out when i am around people. i just cant help it.
i get cranked up and agitated.
so by your comparison i can see how this girl NEEDS to live as a girl much like when i am around too many people or in a certain environment, i NEED to get the hell out of there.

so i understand that need but i still dont understand the why..
maybe there is no why.
much like my feelings about people, maybe she just had that perfect storm of body chemistry, parenting methods, and environment to cause her to identify as female.

sorry about the rant about the break in....just wanted to relate the situation as to why i think i am the way i am.

that taught me that people can not be trusted. it taught me that people will hurt you if given the chance.

so, all my life i have put up walls...i put up walls and i dont let people in because if i let people in then they can hurt me(and i dont mean just physically)

Gryphon66

posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 06:48 AM

link

a reply to: Grovit

Thanks for sharing all that, Grovit. That's some deep psychic tissue, and I know that exposing it was difficult.

In regard to the topic, though, allow me to say to you that I don't understand how trans* folk feel either, not on the visceral level I think you're trying to understand it on, and I'm gay, which society thinks means I automatically understand all differences.

I have always thought that it must be the most ... disturbing, displacing, thing to feel like "I am in the wrong body." Our bodies are our fundamental reality. How horrible would it be to always be "in the 'wrong' one?"

But just like there's no one reason that people are gay, or introverted, I don't think there's one reason they are trans*

And more than that, we, as individuals in society with trans* folks, don't necessarily have to "like it" ... we just have to make sure that we treat trans* citizens are fairly as we do all other citizens, that we make reasonable accommodations for their differences, and that we don't inflict hateful actions on them.

Beyond that, no one has to "understand" me, or you, or anyone else. Sadly, we aren't put together like a machine so that we can take the pieces apart and see what each one does. Nor do we get a Human Body Owners' Manual with this puppy.

NavyDoc

posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 07:39 AM

link

originally posted by: prisoneronashipoffools

originally posted by: mikeone718
This will be my excuse, going forward, to gain access to the girl's bathroom.

And I thought I was having a bad day

Great. Get started on hormone replacement therapy and when you have felt the full effects of that you tell us how well your plan went.

After all when done you will lose strength and muscle mass, grow breasts, you penis will no longer be able to get a complete erection and will more then likely shrink as well, you will no longer be able to produce sperm and very little ejaculation, you will become far more emotional; with a tendency to cry more at silly little things and not to mention your sex drive will completely change since the majority of the male sex drive is testosterone driven and you will find that you don't have that driving need for release.

Now are you telling me you want to go through all that just to get in a bathroom to spy and perv on women. I doubt it I doubt anyone but people who really are transgendered would bother and any man taking hormone replacement therapy to do so would shoot themselves in the foot because the need that drove them would be dissipated as well.

Sounds like a great plan.....totally legit.

But that is no longer required to be treated as the opposite gender. No hormone replacement or surgery required--just stating that you "identify" as the opposite gender is sufficient.

NavyDoc

posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 07:44 AM

link

originally posted by: Grovit
from what i am reading it seems that gender has more to do with sociology and culture.

en.wikipedia.org...

In the Oxford English Dictionary, gender is defined as, "n mod. (esp. feminist) use, a euphemism for the sex of a human being, often intended to emphasize the social and cultural, as opposed to the biological, distinctions between the sexes."

Some people maintain that the word sex should be reserved for reference to the biological aspects of being male or female or to sexual activity, and that the word gender should be used only to refer to sociocultural roles. Accordingly, one would say The effectiveness of the treatment appears to depend on the sex of the patient and In society, gender roles are clearly defined

A working definition in use by the World Health Organization for its work is that "'[g]ender' refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviours, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women"
In 2011, they reversed their position on this and began using sex as the biological classification and gender as "a person's self representation as male or female, or how that person is responded to by social institutions based on the individual's gender presentation.
---------------

and on and on

seems to me this girl is a boy....still. despite how she chooses to live

You should not be ashamed or embarrassed for being confused on the issue. Absent identifiable chromosomal abnormalities, there really are no scientific based facts of the matter and no real consensus. Some studies have shown some physical differences in the brain and some studies have shown the opposite that there are no differences. And, for those that show differences, there is no real demonstrable cause and effect as we know that behavior can alter brain structure as well, not the other way around.

Thus, absent ideological stances, there really is nothing objective or definite. You are not "ignorant" for having trouble coming to grips with something that all of the "experts" debate and disagree on.
edit on 4-12-2014 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)

Gryphon66

posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 10:51 AM
link

So aside from the known physical (and dramatic) differences that result in inter-sexed individuals, despite psychological, sociological and neurological evidence regarding trans* people to the contrary, there is no "scientific consensus" on the issues before us, and therefore, nothing needs to be acknowledged, understood, or taken into account, and discrimination is A-OK?

BS.

Plain and simple, BS

The androgen receptor (AR), also known as NR3C4, is activated by the binding of testosterone or dihydrotestosterone, where it plays a critical role in the forming of primary and secondary male sex characteristics. Hare et al. found that male-to-female transsexuals were found to have longer repetitions of the gene, which reduced its effectiveness at binding testosterone.

Androgen Receptor Repeat Length Polymorphism Associated with Male-to-Female Transsexualism

A variant genotype for a gene called CYP17, which acts on the sex hormones pregnenolone and progesterone, has been found to be linked to female-to-male transsexualism but not MTF transsexualism. Most notably, the FTM subjects not only had the variant genotype more frequently, but had an allele distribution equivalent to male controls, unlike the female controls. The paper concluded that the loss of a female-specific CYP17 T -34C allele distribution pattern is associated with FtM transsexualism

A polymorphism of the CYP17 gene related to sex steroid metabolism is associated with female-to-male but not male-to-female transsexualism

Two easily discovered scientific studies (which are only the tip of the iceberg) which put the lie to the "no evidence, no scientific proof" statement.

As far as "consensus" goes ...

Transgender is an umbrella term for persons whose gender identity, gender expression, or behavior does not conform to that typically associated with the sex to which they were assigned at birth. Gender identity refers to a person’s internal sense of being male, female, or something else; gender expression refers to the way a person communicates gender identity to others through behavior, clothing, hairstyles, voice, or body characteristics. “Trans” is sometimes used as shorthand for “transgender.”

American Psychological Association - Transgender FAQ

[T]he American Medical Association released a statement recommending that states not require sex-reassignment surgery in order for a person to change the gender designation on their birth certificate.

The new policy was adopted at the AMA’s annual meeting of its House of Delegates, which last year welcomed the Gay and Lesbian Medical Association (GLMA) as the first LGBT organization represented among its membership.

“For many transgender people, a needless operation should not be a government requirement to amend a sex designation on a birth certificate,” AMA President Ardis Dee Hoven announced. “State laws must acknowledge that the correct course of treatment for any given individual is a decision that rests with the patient and the treating physicians.”

American Medical Association - Surgery Should not Be Required to Legally Change Gender

H-65.992 Continued Support of Human Rights and Freedom. Our AMA continues (1) to support the dignity of the individual, human rights and the sanctity of human life, and (2) to oppose any discrimination based on an individual's sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, race, religion, disability, ethnic origin, national origin or age and any other such reprehensible policies. (Sub. Res. 107, A-85; Modified by CLRPD Rep. 2, I-95; Reaffirmation A-00; Reaffirmation A-05; Modified: BOT Rep. 11, A-07)

American Medical Association - Policy Regarding Sexual Orientation, Gender Identity, Etc.

The two most prominent scientific associations regarding physical and mental health in Americans certainly do and clearly acknowledge a scientific consensus in regard to the existence, legal status and human rights of Trans* folks.

Anyone who tells you differently is not telling you the truth.
edit on 10Thu, 04 Dec 2014 10:56:20 -060014p1020141266 by Gryphon66 because: Posting Craziness

NavyDoc

posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 11:26 AM
link

And you are not being totally honest and are interpreting the study with a biased eye.

From the article that you, yourself provided:

From the first article:
"Conclusion: This study provides evidence that make gender identity MIGHT (bold mine) be PARTLY mediated through the androgen receptor." Where I learned the scientific method "might" and "partly" is not proof.

From the second article:

Our study has limitations. For example, selection bias has to be acknowledged when interpreting the results of this study as we only enrolled transsexual individuals visiting our outpatient clinic; thus, we cannot rule out bias by self-selection. Furthermore, we have only documented an association between carriage of a CYP17 SNP and FtM transsexualism. A cause–effect relationship cannot be established by an association study. Therefore, the interpretation of our data that loss of a female-specific CYP17 T−34C SNP allele distribution pattern predisposes women to develop transsexualism has to be interpreted with caution. In addition, the control population was not specifically investigated as to their sexual orientation and may also be biased by self-selection.

SO yes, it the truth is that there still is no definite scientific evidence that there is a physical manifestation that "causes" transgenderism and yes, there is not a consensus of the scientific validity of the claim and I see how you completely ignored the conclusions of both articles because the conclusions of the very authors of the articles did not match with your claim of your ridiculous assertion of "the science is settled and anyone who tells you differently is a liar." Even the authors of both the articles did not make such a claim at all.

The AMA piece was an OPINION piece about treating people with dignity, and that's a good thing, but still not consensus on the science--it is a consensus that we have to be nice to people, not a consensus of the science. There is a difference.

Of course there is not scientific consensus because there are many studies that show things differently:

The corpus callosum was studied in MtF transsexuals because it is larger and differently shaped in men than in women. In 1991, a University of Texas team reported comparing the corpora callosa of 10 MtF transsexuals, 10 FtM transsexuals, 20 control males, and 20 control females. No significant differences were found

Emory, L. E., Williams, D. H., Cole, C. M., Amparo, E. G., & Meyer, W. J. (1991). Anatomic variation of the corpus callosum in persons with gender dysphoria. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 20, 409-417.

BSTc becomes sexually dimorphic only in adulthood, suggesting that differentiation of the BSTc does not cause transsexualism

Chung. W., De Vries, G., & Swaab, D. (2002). Sexual differentiation of the bed nunucleus of the stria terminalis in humans may extend into adulthood. Journal of Neuroscience, 22, 1027–1033.

If you are going to only believe papers that support your preconceived biases and you are only going to interpret the data of those papers in a manner that supports your preconceived biases, you really have no business calling someone else a liar when you have been either deliberately or unconsciously disingenuous in your very own citations.

I now return to our agreement to ignore each other. One cannot have a rational discussion with the irrational.

Gryphon66

posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 12:15 PM
link

a reply to: NavyDoc

Doc:

Oh sweet sassafras! WHO did I call a liar, exactly? Before this post, I haven't even addressed anything to you, so it certainly wasn't you.

Goodness, Doc. come down off the victim cross.

You stated NO evidence, and evidence was provided. You are quite clearly mistaken, and you are quite clearly filtering through your own notable and significant bias on the subject.

Science does not deal in absolutes and you know that. I know that scientific training can be corrupted by political ideology, but you are respected by many on this site for your medical expertise, and you can do better than this.

Science reports the findings and draws what conclusions can be drawn at the time and changes when new data are uncovered, and that's what those studies clearly do.

You're confusing the certainty of belief with science.

There are hundreds of other studies which demonstrate clear evidence of biological differences.

As to your "evidence," you accuse of me of bias and then you cherry-pick comments from a 23 year old textbook and a 12 year old study?

I know you hate the word intrinsically Doc, but, geez, scientific PROGRESS in 12 years? Not to mention 23?

New data, new studies, new information?

C'mon. Who's zoomin' who here?

There is considerable scientific bases for the fact that Trans* folk are experiencing actual physical differences that account for their identification and "feelings."

I have never claimed that there is one causal factor for trans* experience, and shame on you for suggesting that I did.

The American Medical Association and the American Psychological Associations DISAGREE with you, Doc.

There is scientific consensus exemplified in their publications about the existence, presence, and legal descriptions of what trans* means.

That also exists with many other professional organizations that are recognized in the field.

But, you are right on one thing, you can't argue obvious facts with the ideologically malfunctioning.

And I'm very good with "radio silence" between you and I so ... best, and Seasons Greetings!
edit on 12Thu, 04 Dec 2014 12:39:38 -060014p1220141266 by Gryphon66 because: Desnarked.

Heruactic

posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 12:27 PM
link

a reply to: American-philosopher

Think of this as step 1 in preparations for Alien contact. What if aliens urinate by spraying all over the place? What if they just # bricks? They could be less than 1% of the populace, we'd need proper facilities.

NavyDoc

posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 12:40 PM
link

originally posted by: Heruactic
a reply to: American-philosopher

Think of this as step 1 in preparations for Alien contact. What if aliens urinate by spraying all over the place? What if they just # bricks? They could be less than 1% of the populace, we'd need proper facilities.

Well, if they shat silver dollars or gold nuggets, they could use my place.

Gryphon66

posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 01:00 PM
link

World Professional Association for Transgender Health

Publication: International Journal of Transgenderism Link

The International Journal of Transgenderism is a peer-reviewed academic journal covering research on gender dysphoria, the medical and psychological treatment of transgender individuals, social and legal acceptance of sex reassignment, and professional and public education on transgenderism.

Human Rights Quarterly - "Advancing Transgender Family Rights through Science: A Proposal for an Alternative Framework"

Journal of Psychiatric Research - "White matter microstructure in female to male transsexuals before cross-sex hormonal treatment. A diffusion tensor imaging study"

Don't mind these all these professional scientific journals and organizations; just keep repeating "No Scientific Consensus"

(PS: Works for global warming and evolution too!)

/eyerollemoticon

NavyDoc

posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 01:36 PM
link

originally posted by: Gryphon66
World Professional Association for Transgender Health

Publication: International Journal of Transgenderism Link

The International Journal of Transgenderism is a peer-reviewed academic journal covering research on gender dysphoria, the medical and psychological treatment of transgender individuals, social and legal acceptance of sex reassignment, and professional and public education on transgenderism.

Human Rights Quarterly - "Advancing Transgender Family Rights through Science: A Proposal for an Alternative Framework"

Journal of Psychiatric Research - "White matter microstructure in female to male transsexuals before cross-sex hormonal treatment. A diffusion tensor imaging study"

Don't mind these all these professional scientific journals and organizations; just keep repeating "No Scientific Consensus"

(PS: Works for global warming and evolution too!)

/eyerollemoticon

I thought you were going for "radio silence?"

An advocacy group is not an example of "scientific consensus." It is an example of a group with an agenda. Having an agenda is neither right nor wrong, but it is not evidence of science.

A proposal is not science nor is it indicative of consensus.

And thirdly, yes, some papers claim a difference in brain structure, but still others show no differences. Thus you cannot claim definite evidence based on any individual study.

In addition, a 19 individual study has very little statistical power. It is an incredibly small sample and form such a small sample one would be spurious to claim "proof" base on it.

Also the authors themselves point out that their study was limited:

One limitation of this study is that the conclusions are not generalizable to MtF the transsexual subjects since we have not included a cohort of non-treated MtF transsexuals. In our pop- ulation, a high percentage of MtF transsexuals start taking hormones without a physician’s prescription before they contact our gender identity unit (Gómez-Gil et al., 2009a), and this precludes their inclusion in the present study. Although we can conclude that there are a priori structural brain differences suggesting masculinization of untreated FtM trans- sexuals, these differences are not seen in the entire brain, but in specific regions of four fascicles. Moreover, we cannot exclude the possibility that their future hormonal treatment and surgical treatments could affect their brain white matter microstructure after treatment. To solve this question pre and post treatment studies or, at least, comparisons with treated groups are needed

In addition, they studied people who came to their gender studies group both the transgender individuals and the "controls" brought it by newspaper advertisement. We can see selection bias and confirmation bias in the acquisition of subjects, which weakens the paper further.

And, according to the full article, unless I missed it somehow, the test subjects and testers were not blinded.

So yes, the paper is an interesting one, but anyone who knows how to read the literature can see that it is not "definite." I find it amusing when the layman "researches" on the internet and thinks they find papers that "prove" things but have no clue what they are reading and how one can determine the validity or methodology used and what it means in a broader spectrum and if the conclusions match the data reported.

Now getting to the issue of "brain shape," we know that the brain is plastic. It changes based on one's activity so even if there is statistically significant (and this paper does not prove that) we are still left with the question of cause and effect. Was the brain different before the behavior and might have caused the behavior or did the behavior cause the brain to remodel and the differences seen a result of the behavior--not the cause.

So yes, any honest thinking person with any sort of objectivity and belief in the scientific method can say, truthfully, that there is not scientific proof that transgenderism is the result of a physiological process.

There is no consensus--some researchers say it is genetic, some say hormonal, some say psychological, some say as a result of various aberrations in early childhood, or lack of certain gender influence, or even early childhood sexual abuse.

Thus, it was unreasonable to castigate ( in your typical condescending manner) the other member for being confused about the issue.

Grovit

posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 01:44 PM
link

originally posted by: NavyDoc

You should not be ashamed or embarrassed for being confused on the issue.

im not...
not in the least

NavyDoc

posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 01:57 PM
link

originally posted by: Grovit

originally posted by: NavyDoc

You should not be ashamed or embarrassed for being confused on the issue.

im not...
not in the least

This is a convoluted issue with social, legal, ethical, medical, and psychological aspects and it is not as cut and dry as some agenda driven people make it seem. It is reasonable to have questions and concerns and opinions.

Grovit

posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 01:59 PM
link

a reply to: NavyDoc

i know my concerns are legit.

thinking about it int he comparison that he mentioned really helps though..

i just dont like implication that i really feel one way but wont say...that type of #

i always say what i feel

NavyDoc

posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 02:02 PM
link

originally posted by: Grovit
a reply to: NavyDoc

i know my concerns are legit.

thinking about it int he comparison that he mentioned really helps though..

i just dont like implication that i really feel one way but wont say...that type of #

i always say what i feel

TO some advocates, if you do not agree with them or question them, then you must hate them. It is either black or white to them. You must celebrate them or you are a bigot. You must accept what they say blindly or you are ignorant. And if all else fails, they just call you a bigot or a homophobe or a racist. That's the standard operating procedure.

Chrisfishenstein

posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 02:22 PM
link

a reply to: American-philosopher

Geez.....When do the prisoners run the asylum? Kids are told what to use, the final call should be made by the principal and that is that!!

None of this he/she is different BS....Use the effing men's room and stop crying! What a bunch of sissies this world is becoming more and more of...This lawsuit is just plain B mother effing S!!! Go cry somewhere else