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The Kingdom of God, the Word & the Tree of Life -- Kabbalah

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posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 07:13 AM
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originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: Utnapisjtim



Originally posted by a reply to Utnapisjtim
Apart from the books already mentioned, I can highly recommend an author called Daniel C Matt, and two of his books, 'Zohar - Annotated & Explained' and 'The Essential Kabbalah'


Thanks for those book recommendations. 2 days ago I was wondering which books on the “Tree of Life” and “kabbala”, would be the best to read. Those 2 books you mentioned above, come highly recommended, from a few sources I found online…If you have any other suggestions, that would be great…


Most of what I know about Kabbalah I have from conversations and from reading translations of books like the Sefer Yetzirah (Book of Formation/Creation) and the Bahir, a book I just recently found available in English translation. Bahir means Illumination or Brilliance. Amazing books, and widely available for all to learn from. This is fire of the gods.


My own very recent (pdf) collection includes…

“The Zohar” by Rav Michael Laitman, PhD,


You can actually buy a complete set of The Zohar with an entire bookshelf thrown in for a bargain. Zohar is a school and a library, it's vast. It's like the neverending encyclopedia of the mind. Like vethumanbeing said earlier here, it takes years and years of your life, but nice to have as pdf. I should really make some efforts to download some of the stuff available out there, I should get at least the ones I can't afford in hard copy.


“The Book of Creation – Revised Edition” by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan


That would be the Sefer Yetzirah or atleast a book relating to it.


“Jewish Gnosticism, Merkabah Mysticism and Talmudic Tradition” by Gershom G. Scholem PhD

“A Depth of Beginning - Notes on Kabbalah” by Colin Low


I'm definitively not an authority on these things, and mostly I am searching for good literature on the subject meself at all times. Most of written material on Kabbalah is as dry as cardboard, so finding ways around the stuff takes an effort. I'd say you're set up for a good month's read on these last few books you mention.

The priest in my parish is a student of the bookes and knows his way around the mystical. I'm not a Christian, though, I don't identify with Christianity which I see as moral bondage and a lying religion served at false pretences and forced on people as a link in a chain of oppression and greed. I have however had the pleasure of being baptised twice and I do attend the meal from time to time. Life itself is my religion. It covers all aspects of reality-- and all the rest of it. A booke like the Bahir is like the soma of the gods to me, that I can open up, see the light emerge as I follow the endless serpent carrying the word of God and swosh, I am in a better world, it's like coming home for Christmas



I haven’t read any of them yet…but judging by the contents pages, and the knowledge of the authors, they look pretty good.

I managed to find this pod cast/stream of Daniel C Matt, discussing his translation of the Zohar…which can be found here…if anyone wants to listen…


Looks promising. I'll have to wait with this one though. Far too much I should have done yesterday. But link saved for laters. Thanks



On side note – And I know this is a little off topic, but what does your avatar mean or symbolize…just curious…


Ah, the ol' dragon with the two-fold white rainbow? I wouldn't know where to start. It's based on an Akkadian "lion-griffin". Quite kind. To the kind. Sad story really. Like I said, I wouldn't know where to start, and it would probably end in tears.


- JC


Hehe, nice initials




posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 11:49 AM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing


Not understanding the 'broken part' as YOU agreed to the 'terms and conditions' of your incarnation as per your contract; (suffering as you say to experience another sort Dantes Inferno/or you meet/oblige the terms of your incarnation. Playing the finger pointing blame game is beneath you.

Finger pointing, is part of questioning everything as means to figure out what exactly it means to free one's self from all obligations, all "terms and conditions" to revoke all agreements and return to sovereignty and from that sovereignty one can then go within and start to find Source. Why would anyone agree to suffer is crazy because we don't have to, there is free will.


Concieving the idea form 'psychology' as relates to what; the human understanding of being in a 'what when where' social setting; or the universal, no place anywhere at any time (where is the angst component) CONFUSION? for the human. Who was ever forced to incarnate HERE? It WAS A CHOICE to progress the individual soul. IT WAS A GIFT.

Actually, I've found 3 people who remember being forced to incarnate against their own will. Those 3 testimonies, bring to question this life being a "gift." Its relative. If you are born to money or somewhat comfort, then its a gift. But if your born in starvation, war, genocide, suffering, molestation/prostitution, then you are literally in hell, and its going everywhere



Not hearing any statistics proclaimed or given as to success rate. Your questions are where is the source, where is the teacher, you see yourself as the watcher, negotiating a truce (between WHO?) YOURSELF (as a higher being with infinite wisdom). Put in time to practice what exactly? that is just not feasible unless you paid your higher self off.

who says anyone has to be paid off. Ultimately there is sovereignty. Revoking all agreements you reclaim your sovereignty and start from this freedom.



Who cares if tomorrow as an ideaform (unless hope for a better future is in that equation pushed a positive) never happens. Past rememberance as the sticky glue rules, STUCK remorse past regret. Why think ODDS? what are you measuring exactly in your fatalism; proof of the AUO having an Achilles heel? (you realize you are at this point in revolt).

Yes, I revolt against I, against ego, against body because we are none of these things, against this world because we are not from here. So all of the world's philosophies, systems, distractions are to be revolted against except the systems of thought which ultimately lead to freedom from all illusion, form this realm, and from ever having to come back here.

Be an objectivist about this by questioning everything and also studying everything. Just studying kaballah limits your perspective, and taking a stance from it alone makes your subjectivity biased without guaranteeing enlightenment/freedom. Study everything, NDE's, pre-existent memories, those who can leave the body and map things out, all philosophies, all paths, etc.....and eventually in all things you find patterns, universalities, and systems of enlightenment are really the only thing worth persuing



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 04:11 PM
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originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: vethumanbeing

It's like the lot of fortune, confusion, like getting pregnant. Everything changes.

I'd go back to sin of 'pride' that explains/expresses the HOW of the other six existing (why we were given the ability to procreate is beyond me; unless to revel in our progenies successes, or lament their failures). It IS VERY CONFUSING. Do we incarnate as brand new star seeds (fresh and clean innocents); or Karma drenched DNA lab rats.



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 04:52 PM
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originally posted by: vethumanbeing
why we were given the ability to procreate is beyond me


Do tell if you figure out the answer. It's sort of obvious. Self-replication is Alpha and Omega. Life is eternal there is no beginning nor end, and all life is One, bodies wear out like clothes, your body is just a vehicle for the nous experience. That help?



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 04:57 PM
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originally posted by: dominicus
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing

VHB:
Not understanding the 'broken part' as YOU agreed to the 'terms and conditions' of your incarnation as per your contract; (suffering as you say to experience another sort Dantes Inferno/or you meet/oblige the terms of your incarnation. Playing the finger pointing blame game is beneath you.


dominicus: Finger pointing, is part of questioning everything as means to figure out what exactly it means to free one's self from all obligations, all "terms and conditions" to revoke all agreements and return to sovereignty and from that sovereignty one can then go within and start to find Source. Why would anyone agree to suffer is crazy because we don't have to, there is free will.

I don't agree to the 'free or self will' ideology; we incarnated with a contract to improve our souls advantage in progressing back to the Source (myself would find existing in nothingness with 'god' as my No Thing companion FOR ETERNITY the extreme/supremity of hellish experiences). What is worse, or is it the same thing (Hell is on earth) or heaven (existing in blithe unawareness). Finger pointing is accusatory and I would be the first one to shake or poke that appendage at 'God' in frustration. What are the choices, join 'God' in No Thingness or be on earth confused/frustrated as to the point of the experiment (therein lies the question). You either have no interest and unknowingly stay blind trapped in ignorance; or go on a potentially useless quest that could take you years. Your understanding is that to persue eventual dead end paths are wasteful. I say go for it (how else will you ever know) because they will end themselves as necessary and you take another avenue of opportunity/course of study.


VHB:
Concieving the idea form 'psychology' as relates to what; the human understanding of being in a 'what when where' social setting; or the universal, no place anywhere at any time (where is the angst component) CONFUSION? for the human. Who was ever forced to incarnate HERE? It WAS A CHOICE to progress the individual soul. IT WAS A GIFT.



dominicus: Actually, I've found 3 people who remember being forced to incarnate against their own will. Those 3 testimonies, bring to question this life being a "gift." Its relative. If you are born to money or somewhat comfort, then its a gift. But if your born in starvation, war, genocide, suffering, molestation/prostitution, then you are literally in hell, and its going everywhere.

Forced? they volunteered and are in ignorance is all; not exactly lying to you but entirely mistaken. Generally what takes place is a negotiation (you can wait for a perfect opportunity in say 75-150 years or you take the body that is instantly available NOW). To do that you improve your Karma rating; be born in a poor country and contract Aids or Ebola Virus. Even sids deaths are voluntary incarnations. You choose to be born in strife because you are in a hurry to balance out that Karma wheel (which also is a huge misunderstanding as it doesn't EXIST EITHER).


VHB:
Not hearing any statistics proclaimed or given as to success rate. Your questions are where is the source, where is the teacher, you see yourself as the watcher, negotiating a truce (between WHO?) YOURSELF (as a higher being with infinite wisdom). Put in time to practice what exactly? that is just not feasible unless you paid your higher self off.


dominicus: who says anyone has to be paid off. Ultimately there is sovereignty. Revoking all agreements you reclaim your sovereignty and start from this freedom.


I say so. Why not; be inventive and break some rules. Ultimately you can revoke all agreements if you signed your soul over in disappearing ink. You can also just proclaim "I WILL NOT OBLIGE", "I REFUSE" all Dogma as IAM. You have no argument here with me as I agree with you. The outlandishness of having to fight for the sovereignity of the soul/individualized is what is exasperating; and guess who put that archetype out there, organized religion.


VHB:
Who cares if tomorrow as an ideaform (unless hope for a better future is in that equation pushed a positive) never happens. Past rememberance as the sticky glue rules, STUCK remorse past regret. Why think ODDS? what are you measuring exactly in your fatalism; proof of the AUO having an Achilles heel? (you realize you are at this point in revolt).


dominicus: Yes, I revolt against I, against ego, against body because we are none of these things, against this world because we are not from here. So all of the world's philosophies, systems, distractions are to be revolted against except the systems of thought which ultimately lead to freedom from all illusion, form this realm, and from ever having to come back here.


The Ego is not your Ameigo; (It is the liar within your consciousness that says "you human; have free will"). I cannot AGREE MORE with this statement of yours as is profound.


dominicus: Be an objectivist about this by questioning everything and also studying everything. Just studying kaballah limits your perspective, and taking a stance from it alone makes your subjectivity biased without guaranteeing enlightenment/freedom. Study everything, NDE's, pre-existent memories, those who can leave the body and map things out, all philosophies, all paths, etc.....and eventually in all things you find patterns, universalities, and systems of enlightenment are really the only thing worth persuing

I study everything. History, philosophy, theology; conspiracy theory; I tic-tac-toe with it. I have OOBE's, see patterns, subpatterns in geometry I reject mans idea of a dogmatic organized religion, I am a free thinker that is dedicated to understanding MY SELFISH truth (sometimes I find another living within the same frequency range). Not so opposed to anything 'faith' based as in what resonates as a Truism Hidden from us. I am tired of being treated like a child by my Creator BECAUSE I AM IT's own expression and it continues to fail throughout human history to TRUST me.
edit on 4-12-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 05:38 PM
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originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
originally posted by: veteranhumanbeing

VHB: why we were given the ability to procreate is beyond me



Utnapisjtim: Do tell if you figure out the answer. It's sort of obvious. Self-replication is Alpha and Omega. Life is eternal there is no beginning nor end, and all life is One, bodies wear out like clothes, your body is just a vehicle for the nous experience. That help?

It adds; as is another truism stated by another self recognized eternal soul (body is a vessel of expression only: limited life time warranty). With enough of these ideas we could revamp redress, pinprick (vanquish) the old archetypes.
edit on 4-12-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 07:44 PM
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a reply to: Utnapisjtim



Originally posted by a reply to Utnapisjtim
You can actually buy a complete set of The Zohar with an entire bookshelf thrown in for a bargain. Zohar is a school and a library, it's vast. It's like the neverending encyclopedia of the mind. Like vethumanbeing said earlier here, it takes years and years of your life, but nice to have as pdf. I should really make some efforts to download some of the stuff available out there, I should get at least the ones I can't afford in hard copy.


The only “book case” I have, is the ebookdroid on my smart phone lol…and my Ebook collection, on my laptop…I like having pdf’s to read on my phone, when I’m travelling around…

Yeah, I didn’t realize just how vast the Zohar actually is, until I noticed just how much has yet to be translated into English, from Daniel Matt, recent translations of Zohar: Pritzker Edition (8 vols. to date).




Originally posted by a reply to Utnapisjtim
I'm definitively not an authority on these things, and mostly I am searching for good literature on the subject meself at all times. Most of written material on Kabbalah is as dry as cardboard, so finding ways around the stuff takes an effort. I'd say you're set up for a good month's read on these last few books you mention.


I’m just starting out in the kabbalic “Tree of Life”, and the Zohar; I probably should have mentioned that earlier lol…

I have a strong analytical and logical mind, mainly from having studied Chess, and Web/php programming…I also have a passion for reaading various religious texts, ranging from Gnostic, Hermetic, Apocrypha, Deuterocanonical, Apocalyptic, OT, NT, Quran etc…

I know that when studying anything from the beginning it’s important, to studying things in the best order, so as to build up an appropriate understanding on the subject…



Originally posted by a reply to Utnapisjtim
The priest in my parish is a student of the bookes and knows his way around the mystical. I'm not a Christian, though, I don't identify with Christianity which I see as moral bondage and a lying religion served at false pretences and forced on people as a link in a chain of oppression and greed.


Yes, I kind of agree, I’m not a Christian myself, although it was where my religious/spiritual journey began, quite a few years back. I consider myself to be more of Gnostic/Essene now…who’s still on a journey of discovery…



Originally posted by a reply to Utnapisjtim
I have however had the pleasure of being baptised twice and I do attend the meal from time to time. Life itself is my religion. It covers all aspects of reality-- and all the rest of it. A booke like the Bahir is like the soma of the gods to me, that I can open up, see the light emerge as I follow the endless serpent carrying the word of God and swosh, I am in a better world, it's like coming home for Christmas


”Baptised twice” lol

I’ve been baptised myself, in what the Bible terms The “Holy Spirit”…Quite a few years back I went through my own spiritual awakening; funny thing was, that it involved reading Jesus words, and meditating/contemplating some key verses, found within the Old Testament.

I knew nothing of the “Tree of Life”, or Kabbala until fairly recently, but I’m now starting to see and realize various interconnections/correlations to the “Tree of Life”, with certain key verses found within the OT/NT, that helped me on my spiritual journey, in the past…

This is one of the big reasons, as to why I’m more drawn to the “Tree of Life”, Kabbala and the Zohar…




Originally posted by a reply to Utnapisjtim
Ah, the ol' dragon with the two-fold white rainbow? I wouldn't know where to start. It's based on an Akkadian "lion-griffin". Quite kind. To the kind. Sad story really. Like I said, I wouldn't know where to start, and it would probably end in tears.


I was more curious about the Arch and the zig zag floor elements…




Originally posted by a reply to Joecoft
- JC




Originally posted by a reply to Utnapisjtim
Hehe, nice initials


Thanks. When I first joined ATS, a poster said my initials reminded her of her father…so I made an unwritten promise, to always sign off, on all my posts…and I’ve doing it ever since lol

It’s funny because Joecroft is not even my real name, it’s just my handle name, so my initials aren’t even JC lol

Although my first name is Yehoseph


Peace be with you…


- JC



posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 06:21 AM
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originally posted by: Joecroft
The only “book case” I have, is the ebookdroid on my smart phone lol…and my Ebook collection, on my laptop…I like having pdf’s to read on my phone, when I’m travelling around…


Aye. A few years back I realised that things like Internet and electricity are delicate things, and what would I do if there was a war or some disaster, I mean, looking through the bookes these scenarios are queued up for release shortly-- so I realised I would have to gather some reading material for the dreadful wait between Judgement Day and whenever the power gets back up.

Now I have four shelves as tall as myself, filled with books on language, magic and religion, spanning from the Vedas and the Sumerian library to the Bible and related literature, lexicons, dictionaries, exegesis and textual criticism, books relating to the classical quadrivium and Pythagoras and the liberal arts and Plato and Aristotle, tons of tables, programs and formulae for astrology, atlases, art, music. I am starting to get a decent coverage of the Greek and Roman historians, and church history, there's a growing section on Rome and the Caesars, medicine, physics, and there are quite a few graphic novels and comics, some classic novels, and most precious, Jenna Jameson's book "How to make love like a porn star" (she is actually a legal genius among other, more obvious, things) and tons of other books and fabes. I love my books and I can find myself sitting in my sofa, just gazing at my books in awe, feeling incredibly lucky and blessed to be able and allowed to own all these mysteries in this sea of wonder and light. Yeah. I've become a bookworm.


I know that when studying anything from the beginning it’s important, to studying things in the best order, so as to build up an appropriate understanding on the subject…


I relate. Take a book like the Sefer Yetzirah. It's what? Ten or fifteen pages? Still there has been written volumes and volumes on it and people have studied it and analysed it for hundreds of years with tons matter produced, probably hundreds of PhDs concluded and still it seems to attract new students. It is like a spark that has lit the whole world ablaze. First time I read the book I didn't understand a thing, but as my journey continued I unlocked more and more of its contents for every time I revisited. Still, there are aspects of that book I am yet to uncover. It's so interwoven and complex, so compressed and profound, and it deals in several dimensional complexes, esoteric layers and there will still be written thousands of books and treatises on it. My point is: You can choose to read the tons of books that has been written on this gem, or you can go to the source and read the original book, do some research, meet a rabbi or two, talk to your priest, ask a Crowleyan and the old fart at the pub, funny thing is, that when you have learned how to understand and read the book, you realise you could have written quite a few books yourself from your studies of those ten or twelve pages. For you have a quired the knowhow to work the mechanics described.


I was more curious about the Arch and the zig zag floor elements…


Well, I could probably say a million things and still not cover everything. Such drawings tend to become extremely complex and nested. As my name indicates, my avatar costume here in this masquerade is Flood-themed. Utnapishtim is the Sumerian equivalent of Noah: If you take the first syllables of the first words of Parashah Noach, you get Ut-na-ish-tim the Neo-Babylonian spelling of the name, so it's coded into the Bible itself. This Flood theme is the backdrop of the drawing as well. The dragon stands upon the Flood (the dragon here is symbolic of the Ark of Noah). The waves are zig-zagged to incorporate the many generations left behind (chalices female, and peaks male), also there are two layers, one for Cayin and one for Seth. The two columns are Boaz and Jachin. The arc is the bridge between the living and the dead, like the rainbow bridge Rimfrost in Norse mythology where Heimdall (Noah) guards the bridge between the humans (present) and the gods (pre-flood). It is also symbolic of the spirit of prophecy and foresight. Well, I could go on for ages
Better?


Although my first name is Yehoseph


And a good name it is. The story of Josef in Egypt was the first story I heard from the Bible that caught my interest. All good I suppose. Once had a grand uncle called Josef. I miss him. He was a nice old man.


Peace be with you…


And peace be with you too, sir.



posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 10:40 AM
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Kabbalah is allegory about allegory. The key is in the 11th sephira, Da’at, which is transmitted only orally and therefore it is often not included with the other sephirot which serve as a sort of Dewey Decimal System used to classify types of writings. The Da’at contains the real meanings of metaphors that would allow a person to make complete sense of Kabbalah without all of the head scratching that one experiences without it.

It amazes me that so many people fail to see what is “hidden in plain sight” despite the fact they seem to recognize it has some significance. Kabbalah in its various forms (i.e. Alchemy, Philosophy, Astrology, Witchcraft, Demonology, Mystery Religions, etc.) is the key to many of the conspiracies discussed in this forum (even UFO’s). If you just take the time to crack this code, you will have all the evidence of conspiracy you could ever hope for. Hundreds of thousands of coded messages spanning millennia cannot be denied once the code is cracked, and it can be cracked, despite some claims that it is “Unbreakable”. You just need to recognize it and develop the proper context and you will already have a substantial start. “Above” and “below” represent literal and hidden meanings. “Salvation” comes from burying the true truth in the underworld of hidden meanings. If you wish to “Raise the dead” just decipher the code.

I am sure that the first response by some will be “prove it”. I should not have to. For an atheist, the literal non-sense of Kabbalah should be a huge clue that someone is playing word games. For those that wish to seriously examine this approach, I would suggest they start with Plato’s Cratylus which is the closest thing to a “grail” I have ever encountered.



posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 02:18 PM
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a reply to: swordwords

Seeing how people like yourself condemn these divine constructs, calling names comparing kabbalah with witchcraft, claiming there are evil, secret codes embedded, that you will break one day and naturally merely to realise what you have already found obvious (although you don't know this code or how to decipher or even prove its existence)-- seeing how people react to this school of thought, spiritual discipline, wisdom of the ages-- I find it no odd these books were handed from father to son in secret, for hundreds of generations. I don't bother much though. If you don't want the Tree of Life, fine.

As for Daat, I have said enough. Unlike the other ten sefiroth, the sefirah Daat is not a fruit you can devour. It is Life itself. And he rocks!

PS: The reason you should not cast pearls to hogs is because it is bad for their teeth, it's a wicked thing to feed animals stones. I do suspect you, on your hand, think the wisdom of the saying is to indicate that swine aren't worthy of such wonderous food as pearls. This is the kind of wisdom kabbalah teaches. Wisdom you claim is evil and designed to-- what exactly? You're being paranoid man.



posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 03:33 PM
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I like some of the core philosophy of Kabbalah, and In a couple of random (which religion are you) tests, I come up under Kabbalah or Jewish mysticism sometimes. However, My experience is that God would be simpler to understand. If a thing can't be simplified in an easy summary, I don't think it's true. When it comes to philosophy or religion or God. What are your thoughts on that line of thinking? Why so complex?



posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 06:29 PM
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a reply to: swordwords
For me, after spending some time with Malkuth I took the middle pillar and went straight to D'aath skipping Yesod and Tiphareth; (knew it held the answers to all of the other 10 sephira) to be studied later after understanding D'aaths power and hidden influence.



posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 07:01 PM
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a reply to: Utnapisjtim



Originally posted by a reply to Utnapisjtim
Now I have four shelves as tall as myself, filled with books on language, magic and religion, spanning from the Vedas and the Sumerian library to the Bible and related literature, lexicons, dictionaries, exegesis and textual criticism, books relating to the classical quadrivium and Pythagoras and the liberal arts and Plato and Aristotle, tons of tables, programs and formulae for astrology, atlases, art, music.


Now that’s what I call a, Book Collection!!! Nice list…

It’s just a shame your not a Woman, you’d be my perfect date lol




Originally posted by a reply to Utnapisjtim
I relate. Take a book like the Sefer Yetzirah. It's what? Ten or fifteen pages? Still there has been written volumes and volumes on it and people have studied it and analysed it for hundreds of years with tons matter produced, probably hundreds of PhDs concluded and still it seems to attract new students.

It is like a spark that has lit the whole world ablaze. First time I read the book I didn't understand a thing, but as my journey continued I unlocked more and more of its contents for every time I revisited.

Still, there are aspects of that book I am yet to uncover. It's so interwoven and complex, so compressed and profound, and it deals in several dimensional complexes, esoteric layers and there will still be written thousands of books and treatises on it.

My point is: You can choose to read the tons of books that has been written on this gem, or you can go to the source and read the original book, do some research, meet a rabbi or two, talk to your priest, ask a Crowleyan and the old fart at the pub, funny thing is, that when you have learned how to understand and read the book, you realise you could have written quite a few books yourself from your studies of those ten or twelve pages. For you have a quired the knowhow to work the mechanics described.


“meet a rabbi or two” lol

Funny, reminds me of that song from Oliver Twist lol…sorry, whacky sense of humour….

Yes, I can relate too…Sometimes you can read advanced books on a subject and not really grasps it at all. And then later you will study the beginner books on the same subject, and the advanced stuff, you read previously, will slowly begin to click into place.

And yes, symbolism can be sooo deep at times, and yet multi-layered with varying offshoots, which can bring you into a new understanding of a given text.

I can’t wait to delve into the book, (Sefer Yetzirah) I have the commentary version by Aryeh Kaplan, who by all accounts looks like an awesome Torah Scholar, who’s works include the Bahir (which you mentioned) and a few meditation books, based around the Bible and the Kabbalah…




Originally posted by a reply to Utnapisjtim
Well, I could probably say a million things and still not cover everything. Such drawings tend to become extremely complex and nested. As my name indicates, my avatar costume here in this masquerade is Flood-themed.

Utnapishtim is the Sumerian equivalent of Noah: If you take the first syllables of the first words of Parashah Noach, you get Ut-na-ish-tim the Neo-Babylonian spelling of the name, so it's coded into the Bible itself.

This Flood theme is the backdrop of the drawing as well. The dragon stands upon the Flood (the dragon here is symbolic of the Ark of Noah). The waves are zig-zagged to incorporate the many generations left behind (chalices female, and peaks male), also there are two layers, one for Cayin and one for Seth. The two columns are Boaz and Jachin. The arc is the bridge between the living and the dead, like the rainbow bridge Rimfrost in Norse mythology where Heimdall (Noah) guards the bridge between the humans (present) and the gods (pre-flood). It is also symbolic of the spirit of prophecy and foresight. Well, I could go on for ages
Better?


Yes, much better, you’ve done well. I thought at first it was the typical Masonic motifs, of the two Pillars of Boaz and Joachim, with a chequered floor, that was split in half, for some reason. I was trying to work out what that could possibly symbolize; I was leaning towards light/goodness paths/walked etc…

But anyway, you’ve cleared that up one up for me. So they represent the flood from the Sumerian/Old Testament traditions, and the Dragon is overcoming/traversing the waves, so to speak.

I’m curious though, where have you derived most of your interpretations, for those symbols from? Is it from Gnosticism, Zohar, Old Testament, Sumerian tablets etc…? Let me guess, it’s above top secret, and your sworn to secrecy...right lol

Seriously though – I was wondering if you know anything about Gnostic/Essenes/Zohar symbolism (and it appears you do lol), I think you may be the one, who can help me, based on what you’ve written so far, and if anything, your extensive book collection lol…

You see, I had this waking vision fairly recently, and it seemed to coincided with my study of the book of Revelations, from a Gnostic symbolic perspective…there may of course be no connection to those studies, but the vision felt quintessentially Gnostic in nature…it’s essentially 2 symbols in one…

Anyway, based on your knowledge, I was just wondering if I could run it by you, to see what you make of it…no pressure…


- JC



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 06:07 AM
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originally posted by: Joecroft
It’s just a shame your not a Woman, you’d be my perfect date lol


I could put on a skirt and some make-up?


I can’t wait to delve into the book, (Sefer Yetzirah) I have the commentary version by Aryeh Kaplan, who by all accounts looks like an awesome Torah Scholar, who’s works include the Bahir (which you mentioned) and a few meditation books, based around the Bible and the Kabbalah…


Ya, Kaplan is great, it's "his" Bahir I have.


I thought at first it was the typical Masonic motifs, of the two Pillars of Boaz and Joachim, with a chequered floor, that was split in half, for some reason. I was trying to work out what that could possibly symbolize; I was leaning towards light/goodness paths/walked etc…

But anyway, you’ve cleared that up one up for me. So they represent the flood from the Sumerian/Old Testament traditions, and the Dragon is overcoming/traversing the waves, so to speak.


Well, like I said it's muti-faceted. The waves are also mountains, and the old world «and the Ark was lifted (Heb. נשא that's "NASA", lit. 'NSA') above the highest mountains». As in leaving the old world behind and rise above it. Or travel in the Ark from Mars to Earth. And what do you know, it looks like we are heading back.


I’m curious though, where have you derived most of your interpretations, for those symbols from? Is it from Gnosticism, Zohar, Old Testament, Sumerian tablets etc…? Let me guess, it’s above top secret, and your sworn to secrecy...right lol


Yes, I could tell you, but you know, I would probably have to mute you
Nah, I'm just playing around. Knowledge comes from studies. It started with the Bible some 20 years ago, the red thread is somewhat difficult to trace after that
Not much gnosticism, but Midrash, Zohar, Bible, Hermes, Plato, Pythagoras.... it's a long list.


Seriously though – I was wondering if you know anything about Gnostic/Essenes/Zohar symbolism (and it appears you do lol), I think you may be the one, who can help me, based on what you’ve written so far, and if anything, your extensive book collection lol…


I haven't studied the Gnostics and Gnosticism too well I'm afraid, but I am familiar with them, and do find Gnosticism somewhat interesting, but from a historic perspective mostly and as it relates to early Christendom and also the Diaspora's first few centuries. They relied mostly on Hermetic cosmology it seems, while their often strange ethics and religious doctrines seem more-- what should I say, abstract or absurd even? Rather out of this world. I mean, how can you condemn all matter and everything physical while at the same time living in this mortal world where everything eventually dies or withers away? I mean, even things like light and sound have physical properties....


You see, I had this waking vision fairly recently, and it seemed to coincided with my study of the book of Revelations, from a Gnostic symbolic perspective…there may of course be no connection to those studies, but the vision felt quintessentially Gnostic in nature…it’s essentially 2 symbols in one…


I have them all the time, it's called daydreaming
Jokes aside, our visual capacity as humans is out of time and dreams and visualisations, abstract thinking and well daydreaming and visions, it breaks the time barrier, so visualising things for your inner eye is useful and you can communicate with yourself in a future-past-present context. Time is like a fluid to me, like a sea you can move about in as in 3d space, but you have to leave your physical self behind for a while-- if you intend to see the future, and try and understand it, for our bodies aren't capable of conscious dreaming and conscious real-life at the same time. We are not really here when we dream.... And since the future is a mystery and somewhat 'floating around' there are no real absolutes. If anything, the future is the consequence of the past, and it is everchanging so it morphs into crystalline structures of this physical reality only as it falls from future into present, and left to wither to dust in the past.


I was just wondering if I could run it by you, to see what you make of it…no pressure…


Could be worth a try I suppose. Drop me a pm or something. I have three symbol dictionaries too
I love a good challenge, so feel free to try me.
edit on 6-12-2014 by Utnapisjtim because: fixed a tag and some minor edits



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 03:21 PM
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originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: Utnapisjtim


Utnapisjtim: My point is: You can choose to read the tons of books that has been written on this gem, or you can go to the source and read the original book, do some research, meet a rabbi or two, talk to your priest, ask a Crowleyan and the old fart at the pub, funny thing is, that when you have learned how to understand and read the book, you realise you could have written quite a few books yourself from your studies of those ten or twelve pages. For you have a quired the knowhow to work the mechanics described.

Its not about theory but practice; as no one can teach you how to acquire an enlightened state of being (although paying someone for their experience as/in book form to do so would make it easier; millions have been made off of the Bible; who has those publishing rights?). You could own the ancient Alexandrian Library and still with all the information within it would not lead to enlightenment/only a path or direction. You are either ready for the knowledge or you tread water, sit on the fence (your higher self knows best when you are ready). Are you searching for someone to give you an easier path? Theirs is an entirely different experience than yours (two individualized souls). One stands near a saltan sea; this body of water available for your eyes to consume, but none that is actually drinkable.


JC: Yes, much better, you’ve done well. I thought at first it was the typical Masonic motifs, of the two Pillars of Boaz and Joachim, with a chequered floor, that was split in half, for some reason. I was trying to work out what that could possibly symbolize; I was leaning towards light/goodness paths/walked etc…

Your making too much of it. Its about obvious 'in your face' polarities is all.


edit on 6-12-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 05:52 PM
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originally posted by: vethumanbeing
a reply to: Utnapisjtim


Utnapisjtim: My point is: You can choose to read the tons of books that has been written on this gem, or you can go to the source and read the original book, do some research, meet a rabbi or two, talk to your priest, ask a Crowleyan and the old fart at the pub, funny thing is, that when you have learned how to understand and read the book, you realise you could have written quite a few books yourself from your studies of those ten or twelve pages. For you have a quired the knowhow to work the mechanics described.

Its not about theory but practice; as no one can teach you how to acquire an enlightened state of being (although paying someone for their experience as/in book form to do so would make it easier; millions have been made off of the Bible; who has those publishing rights?). You could own the ancient Alexandrian Library and still with all the information within it would not lead to enlightenment/only a path or direction. You are either ready for the knowledge or you tread water, sit on the fence (your higher self knows best when you are ready). Are you searching for someone to give you an easier path? Theirs is an entirely different experience than yours (two individualized souls). One stands near a saltan sea; this body of water available for your eyes to consume, but none that is actually drinkable.


To echo your own words; «Your making too much of it.» These books are compressed wisdom ranging from rather archaic cosmology to really advanced physics. And like I'll show below: There is the story Life tells between the lines of the Tree of Life. No sane rabbi would agree, but bear with me. The Tree of life, is the Family-tree of Eve:

There were Three Mothers of The Adam's Family
Just like there are Three Mother Letters in the Hebrew Alefbet. Eve whose name means Life, and the other two whom Adam rejected before he had Eve custom built. Lilith, whom Adam found to be too dominant for his taste, and in Eden she is the serpent in the Tree. Lastly there is the other one, a lady Adam built ground up together with God; but Adam was unable to love her since he had seen all her insides and all the mucus and goo, and well, get the idea? He had to let her go. Lilith then, or one of her daughters, stories differ at this point, later married Cain, the Son of Adam and the firstborn Son of Man, and Abel married the other one. When Abel died, he had no son, so Seth, his younger brother, was put in his place and he married-- the other one. In other words, by the first generation, there were seven married (oath of Eden was marriage) people, just like there are seven wandering spheres in heaven and Seven Double Letters in the Hebrew Alefbet.

This is when it starts getting complicated, for the following involves a bit of fiddling and we're talking about "The Twelve Stars" or the "Crown of Life": Now, first son of Seth, Enosh (like Adam, his name means Man) was counted as Abel's son, and according to the rules, since he was the firstborn, and only son of Abel, he was counted among JHVH's sons together with Cain, his uncle, Adam, his grandfather, and later, Hanok his cousin, and of course his own firstborn son, Kenan and a few others, twelve to be precise: Now, counting the sons of JHVH among Adam's descendants who according to the rules were firstborns takes some fiddling and, well, all in all, the line of the Sons of JHVH among the Sons of Man/Adam ends with Henok/"Enoch" of Abel's leg, and grandfather of Noah; and with Lamek of Cain's leg.

At this point the oaths change. For the world at this point saw its first war. A different oath is sworn, a sort of Martial Law. And Enoch was later taken up to Heaven and his years on Earth counted 365 years, just before the Deluge. The Great Year was completed, and all 22 letters in the Hebrew Alefbet were accounted for with their proper gods and angels, therefore it is said that Enoch received the Alefbet and was the first man to write in Hebrew and draw the Tree of Life, and it is said that God took Enoch up to heaven and he was the first of the children of man to evolve into an Angel of Light, Metatron, without dying first. The same Metatron who later lead Moses through the Exodus. Lamek of Cain's leg, bought free his children and was the first General to lead an army. He had two wives, for the war was raging with the Nephilim and the men were falling left and right widowing their wives. The Twelve Months/Stars were now accounted for, and God started preparing for the Great Deluge. It is at this point God changes the cellular makeup of humanity to genetically limit the general lifespan of humans to a maximum 120 years, by introducing a new telomer-system. The total number of the Man's Sons of JHVH is twelve. Just like there are twelve stars in the Crown of Life, and twelve months in a year. There are Twelve Single Letters in the Hebrew Alefbet.

Hope this helped. Things aren't so devilish as you claim it to be. This is the bollocks told so "even mom can understand it" to copy the slogan of Kodak in the fifties. It's not so much magic as it is the Word of God, promising the Messiah and his Kingdom of God. I can't see why anyone, especially Christians, can call it sacrilege. It's the bleeding Gospel for Christ's sake. And you call it the plan of Satan and Witchcraft. If it is, then feel free to call me a Satanic Witch, and I'd be happy to curse you, or let's say prove to you that the Sun is in the centre of the Solar System. Shambles and ruins, you amaze me!
edit on 6-12-2014 by Utnapisjtim because: added part about Enoch being the first to write Hebrew and a couple of line shifts and a few typos. Removed the faulty post reference. Added a few tidbits about Enoch.



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 06:06 PM
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originally posted by: vethumanbeing
originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: Utnapisjtim


Get the referencing straight. If you can't do it right, leave it as it is. According to your editing here, vethumanbeing, you claim that Joecroft co-authored your reply. Which he didn't, did he? Put the post/user references in their proper place on level with the quoted text, not outside. -- Looks to me you act the false prophet with split tongue and all here. What's next?
edit on 6-12-2014 by Utnapisjtim because: aftre --



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 07:13 PM
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originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: Utnapisjtim


Get the referencing straight. If you can't do it right, leave it as it is. According to your editing here, vethumanbeing, you claim that Joecroft co-authored your reply. Which he didn't, did he? Put the post/user references in their proper place on level with the quoted text, not outside. -- Looks to me you act the false prophet with split tongue and all here. What's next?

Not at all; we are just long time friends that bicker occasionally; as far as I know neither one of us exists in each others consciousness speaking for each other. I claim no thing as I know no thing (just abstracts) (the more I think I understand the universe; the more I experience in triplicate a punishment in thinking I do). You are a perfect example; 'I am not getting it right' and am told so by someone I have yet to know (or they me) any real truths held. I am an acting False prophet? What justifies or edifies this fear of yours. You named me (am I a potential or the real deal) split tongued human serpent.
edit on 6-12-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 07:19 PM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing

The part about being a false prophet was a joke, OK? But are you saying you speak on behalf of JoeCroft in the given post above here?
edit on 6-12-2014 by Utnapisjtim because: ...



posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 08:12 PM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing



Originally posted by a reply to Joecroft
Yes, much better, you’ve done well. I thought at first it was the typical Masonic motifs, of the two Pillars of Boaz and Joachim, with a chequered floor, that was split in half, for some reason. I was trying to work out what that could possibly symbolize; I was leaning towards light/goodness paths/walked etc…





Originally posted by a reply to Vethumanbeing
Your making too much of it. Its about obvious 'in your face' polarities is all


Thanks for the input lol

I didn’t know what the zig zag pattern meant initially (before I enquired) thought it was Masonic chequered floor cut in half for some reason, so couldn’t exactly extrapolate any polarities from there. The above was just me describing my thoughts, before the OP told me it represented water…

- JC



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