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Islam or Jesus - Which one?!?!

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posted on Dec, 2 2014 @ 11:54 PM
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a reply to: Murgatroid

I just finished watching that video. Some things are the same, some are a bit different. Both of us experienced something to which there is no turning back though... that is for sure!

He is right about all the peace and joy.. that alone is so amazing! I was also told the bible was God's word and true. Its like I know now, its true. So strange to just know, beyond any shadow of a doubt!

Thank you so much for sharing that video.. it gives me peace to know there are others!




posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 05:10 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

This is showing a maturity in understanding Christian theology that is well beyond someone who just decided to Convert. I didn't doubt your conversion story at all, and after reading this I"m even more convinced of a special visit to you from God. What you just spoke of here was something I learned only after a few years studying with the Carmelites. I was a Third Order Carmelite (1st Franciscan then switched) in the Catholic church for 20 years. (oh, and Catholics Baptize babies because the bible speaks of 'whole families' being baptized, so that's where they get it from. It's a matter of interpretation. But that's for another thread.)

I'm glad you have found peace and joy, and that you are happy.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 09:31 AM
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originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: windword

As a beside..

Don't expect an instant hey looky here. He will begin guiding you though, and in time, however long it takes you to understand in your heart, true understanding, you will find HIM. You will find your answers.

HE will tell you. Just ask.



OpinionatedB,

I understand that over the past few years you have gone through some traumatic things, escaping an abusive relationship, loosing your daughter and marrying a man you met on line who is of different religious background than you.


But Ruth said, "Do not urge me to leave you or turn back from following you; for where you go, I will go, and where you lodge, I will lodge. Your people shall be my people, and your God, my God. 17"Where you die, I will die, and there I will be buried. Thus may the LORD do to me, and worse, if anything but death parts you and me."…


I understand that because of your lifelong commitment to your belief in God and your desire to see God working in your life, it would be detrimental to your marriage and your personal happiness for you and your husband to be equally yoked, religiously speaking, Therefore I'm not at all surprised to find that your "dreams" led you to your husband's God, Jesus. It's a great convenience to have a visitation that you can use to explain your sudden conversion. And what an added bonus that the Jesus of your dreams told you that the Bible is the world of God, too!

Good for you!

I've had the ability to direct or program my dreams since I was a teenager. I set my mind to a problem that needs insight to be solved, my sights on place I wish to visit, or plan and project my future, and I dream it on through.

Sometimes I'm lucky enough to have a great, old hermit man come and teach me sacred geometry and about my personal power. Once I asked for a UFO/ET experience and got to visit a huge metal ship lurking behind our moon. The "man" I met there showed me all kinds of things about our solar system and human evolution that would make even hard core ATS abductionist raise an eyebrow!

It's amazing what the mind is capable of!


edit on 3-12-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 10:11 AM
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a reply to: windword

You know windword, I have been exactly where you are right now. I DO understand.

There was one time years ago when my car broke down and I was walking alongside the road - didn't have cell phone then - anyway, this lady she stopped and picked me up. Her house wasn't too far so she invited me to go to her house and use her phone, and wait there until someone could come and get me.

The woman's kindness was absolutely amazing. But.. after we got to her house and I used the phone, she gave me a glass of water, and told me Jesus said: "And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is my disciple, truly I tell you, that person will certainly not lose their reward."

And she gave me the water in Jesus' name.

ALL I could think at the time was "Oh God not one of these! Please get me out of here!"

hahaha.. seriously. I thought the woman was crazy!

I don't fault you whatever you think, I really don't care. I've been there... its just that now that I am on this side - I understand..

I do wish you well, and much happiness in your life.



posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 10:19 AM
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a reply to: OpinionatedB

Well, just like you've converted from Islam to Christianity, I've converted from Christianity to whatever it is that I am now. (I don't have a label) I've been where you are. I doubt you've been where I am, tho. But, whatever makes you feel good.

Good luck with your life and your E-book.



posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 10:43 AM
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a reply to: windword

You might be amazed at all the places I have been, and all the things I do understand.
edit on 3-12-2014 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 11:04 AM
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originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: windword

You might be amazed at all the places I have been, and all the things I do understand.


Perhaps I would be. But the "justifications" that Christians confuse with "understanding" never ceases to amaze me!



posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 11:41 AM
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originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat

originally posted by: Rtardx
a reply to: CagliostroTheGreat If only things were that simple.



What is complicated about that? I have made my choice. If God (or lack thereof) doesn't like it, I guess its eternal Hellfire for this poor soul. If that's the case, God is a real baddie. Either way, I'm not sceerd.

Kallisti


My version of Christianity doesn't allow for a lake of fire. I've rejected that notion ever since I was a child and some Jehovah's Witnesses tried to convince me of one - they failed. Thinking back on it, though, those incidents probably ARE what set me off on a quest for God, just so I could ask it what in the hell it wants to set people on fire for.

The one I found said "I don't. Someone has been drinking while reading, and that's not necessarily a good combination."



posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 11:51 AM
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originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: methuselah969

I have a perfectly happy and healthy relationship with my deity of choice. Its just not your deity. So according to you, I will be going to hell, right?


Doesn't really matter - if you do, you'll never know it, so why worry?



posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 12:55 PM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm

it seems to me like christianity mirrors a few other spiritual systems in its thought and behavior. the only major difference is that its absoluitely crucial to accept this one particular person as your personal savior otherwise it all means nothing.

so if you dont accept this one person as your god but do all the other golden rule stuff because its appropriate and necessary, is that not a worthwhile pursuit? or does failing to check off that one thing out of the entire list still cancel out every good thing you have ever done?



From my perspective, that all depends on what you want to get out of death.

Humans are incapable of doing any objective "good", left to their own devices. All of the "good" that people think they are doing is entirely subjective - what is "good" for them isn't necessarily "good" for another.

In order to determine if it is objectively "good", they would have to view it from a distance, a vantage point outside the self.

Humans can't do that. Leaving the self to take a peek would kill them dead, cease their existence. They would no longer be their "selves".

The "good" people do is solely to salve their selves, because it is is based upon their own subjective perceptions.




i guess what im saying here is i feel like the only thing that makes christianity what it is, is accepting jesus as your savior. take away that detail and you could basically swap christianity out for a number of other spiritual systems, as far as behavior and philosophy are concerned. this means that you could be something other than christian and still be every bit as good a person as a christian.

thoughts?


That is correct - christians are not "good", either. A decent one will tell you that up front. If a christian thinks he is "good", he missed the lesson, and if he missed the lesson, can he legitimately be called a christian?



posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 01:01 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: the2ofusr1




Christianity teaches that children are not held accountable for their sins .


Does Christianity teach that children under "the age of accountablity" CAN commit sin?



It probably depends on the flavor of christianity - all of them teach different things from one another, else there would not be so many flavors of it.

it doesn't matter what christians think. A man can be sincere, and still be sincerely WRONG.

Would YOU think a person is responsible for an action over which they had no control - accountability without authority? What do you think "sin" is?



posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 01:27 PM
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a reply to: windword
Damn, i've been trying to do that lately, how do i program my dreams?



posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 01:40 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: the2ofusr1

Is lying a sin? Why does a child lie? Why should one be compelled to always always tell the truth, even when it's detrimental their survival, or may cause someone harm.



One is never compelled to lie - although at times one may be compelled to bite one's tongue to keep from telling the truth.

Is lying a sin? One must first determine what a "sin" is to answer that question.



posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 01:45 PM
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originally posted by: Rtardx
a reply to: Sahabi

Woah, them sounds like fightin words. Hope a muslim doesn't read this, but i do agree with you about the religious superiority complex. "We're the world's fastest growing religion"!! As if that's some sort of proof, their's is the the right one.


Armies are always bulked up and supplies laid in on the eve of a war.

It's just a matter of whom they truly obey as Commander in Chief of their army. The actual power behind the throne may not be the same as the face they think they are obeying.

During the Cold War, both the Soviets and the Americans had huge armies - which was in the "right"?



posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 01:47 PM
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originally posted by: Rtardx
a reply to: windword
Damn, i've been trying to do that lately, how do i program my dreams?


Meditation, prayer, dance, yoga, "tea".......Faith in yourself, or your spiritual guides..... Focus on what would be your best outcome, (usually I find there is a better outcome) or imagine the place you want to be, Do it however you find that you can do that best.

Relax and have faith in your higher self (or GOD) to lead you, then let it. It's amazing what we already know!



posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 01:55 PM
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a reply to: nenothtu




it doesn't matter what christians think. A man can be sincere, and still be sincerely WRONG.


Being WRONG is NOT a sin.



Would YOU think a person is responsible for an action over which they had no control - accountability without authority?


Moi? Of course not! But that's exactly what Original Sin is.


What do you think "sin" is?


Sin is a religious term that is defined as those things that defy a religious code or law. I personally don't believe in such a thing as "sin". Therefore I strongly disagree with you here:



Humans are incapable of doing any objective "good", left to their own devices. All of the "good" that people think they are doing is entirely subjective - what is "good" for them isn't necessarily "good" for another.

In order to determine if it is objectively "good", they would have to view it from a distance, a vantage point outside the self.

Humans can't do that. Leaving the self to take a peek would kill them dead, cease their existence. They would no longer be their "selves".


There's no such thing as objective good. Everything, good, bad or in between, is all subjective.

Humans do have the ability to foresee and plan from a distance, a distance that is so far off that it outlives us. That's what we call civilization, and mankind did it, and it is "good".



One is never compelled to lie


Society requires people to lie all the time. Being honest is what get's people in trouble.







edit on 3-12-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 02:20 PM
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a reply to: windword

You know, I've never been a Catholic, and so I've never been able to figure out why they baptize children. The concept is alien to me. All of the christian churches I've ever been to, without exception, are horrified at the thought of baptizing someone who doesn't have the capability of understanding and agreeing to it. At best, they believe it's a waste of time.

So if you can, please enlighten me - why DO Catholics baptize babies?



posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 02:23 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: the2ofusr1

What society sees as wrong is not necessarily "sin".



Ah! Now we may be getting somewhere! We have acknowledged one of the things sin is NOT - it's not based on societal preferences.

Now, what IS it?



posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 03:37 PM
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originally posted by: nenothtu
a reply to: windword

You know, I've never been a Catholic, and so I've never been able to figure out why they baptize children. The concept is alien to me. All of the christian churches I've ever been to, without exception, are horrified at the thought of baptizing someone who doesn't have the capability of understanding and agreeing to it. At best, they believe it's a waste of time.

So if you can, please enlighten me - why DO Catholics baptize babies?





Well, I was raised Pentecostal, Assembly of God. So I was also raised by horrified adults who thought infant baptism was an abomination. My Aunt, a Catholic Nun, (going to hell according to my mother) said it was to keep the babies out of limbo when they die. Why God puts babies who die in a place called limbo, and why sprinkling water on them saves them a place called limbo, is beyond me!


Since the New Testament era, the Catholic Church has always understood baptism differently, teaching that it is a sacrament which accomplishes several things, the first of which is the remission of sin, both original sin and actual sin—only original sin in the case of infants and young children, since they are incapable of actual sin; and both original and actual sin in the case of older persons.
www.catholic.com...


I guess unbaptized children that experience the wages of sin, death, are just out of luck!



Now, what IS it?


Sin is breaking a religious rule or law. Outside of religion, I don't believe sin exists. Social mores, accepted behavior, empathy, common decency, an inner moral compass, self introspection are all human attributes meticulously developed through trial and error, over generations and through aeons of survival and social evolution. In my opinion.



posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 04:32 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: OpinionatedB




No the child is not sinning, the child is learning right from wrong.


I don't believe that children NEED to be taught right from wrong. We are all (most of us anyway) born with a moral compass and empathy.


That's one of the problems with the "western" world - no one wants to teach their children any more. Evidently a lot of folks think their little hellions are somehow magically born way above the station of the apes they are. I can't speak for yours, but MY little hellions were, well, little hellions. They had to be taught, but turned out pretty well.




Christianity teaches that ALL of mankind is corrupt, including little babies. I think it's a morally flawed outlook on hope and humanity.



It's not all brands of Christianity that teach that - and even among the ones that do, most have a different view or definition of "corrupt" than society at large in that particular context. That right there is one of the problems with a number of Christians - they have "catch phrases" or "buzz words" that, when they speak, even I (and I have been often accused of being a "christian" or a "quasi-chriatian" or something like that - I ain't gotta take that crap from nobody, though!) can't figure out what language that is, and tend to often just tune them out. They seem to be sublimely unaware that in order to communicate their "message", whomever they're speaking to ought to be able to decipher it, and if their target audience speaks plain English, maybe that speaking Christian ought to give that a try, too.




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