Total US Debt Rises Over $18 Trillion; Up 70% Under Barack Obama

originally posted by: babybunnies
So, most people know that most of the debt accumulated under Obama were just payments for programs authorized by previous Presidents (both Democrat and Republican), right?

Everyone except Republicans seems to know this.

I think it's more current than past.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: xuenchen

thats exactly right

and lets not forget that what they CAN collect, are our resources......

Shillington said above that we had land......

You think that they wont try and come for that? I dunno, I would HOPE not, but its not off the table .....

We have oil reserves, shale, natural gas, and lots and lots of land, just like any collateral you have as a private citizen, if you have any equity in anything and default, what do you think the banks come for? what do you think they seize?

Think of the US as a private citizen, what are her assets.....and what are the banks of the "world" going to come for when she defaults.....

We dont get to say "Welp sorry were bankrupt" lol the US doesnt get that luxury

Think of the US as a private citizen, with his own farm, his own oil, his own private security force, and his own button that can literally end the world.

If that citizen says he doesn't owe you anything, are you going to try to come steal from him?

Ironically the only private citizen that would be likely to invade that person is the Americans.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: windword

You are completely misunderstanding what U.S. Treasury Securities are.

It's true - this is mostly federal "securities" that people buy. For example, you buy a federal bond and now the government owes you 105% of the purchase price when the bond matures.. It is still government debt.

We're definitely in a heap of debt.. I just think pointing the finger at a single guy or administration even is immature. The problem doesn't originate from the President or his administration, but from some fundamental flaws in our economic system. Pretending to care about the actual problem while using it as political bait is masturbation, both on the individual and global scale.


ETA: To be fair, those securities would be the first thing the federal government defaulted on, so you can almost justify assigning that debt to private parties.

a reply to: babybunnies

Most U.S. Treasury securities are open market traded.

The value can collapse just like anything else if a panic starts.

United States Treasury Securities are government debt instruments issued by the United States Department of the Treasury to finance the national debt of the United States. Treasury securities are often referred to simply as Treasuries. Since 2012 the management of government debt has been arranged by the Bureau of the Fiscal Service, succeeding the Bureau of the Public Debt.

There are four types of marketable treasury securities: Treasury bills, Treasury notes, Treasury bonds, and Treasury Inflation Protected Securities (TIPS). There are also several types of non-marketable treasury securities including State and Local Government Series (SLGS), Government Account Series debt issued to government-managed trust funds, and savings bonds. All of the marketable Treasury securities are very liquid and are heavily traded on the secondary market. The non-marketable securities (such as savings bonds) are issued to subscribers and cannot be transferred through market sales.


United States Treasury security

a reply to: xuenchen

Yeah but what exactly would happen then? The debt would be owed in a largely worthless currency which could be replaced pretty much overnight because, as a previous poster said, the actual property and real value is still there.

Then we would look at these countries and say, "What?" and see what they do about it.

a reply to: TinkerHaus

But Obama said .....

Obama says adding $4 trillion to debt is unpatriotic
www.youtube.com...

The Drama of it all !!!

On July 3, 2008 -- the day before Independence Day -- Barack Obama said that adding $4 trillion in debt was irresponsible and "unpatriotic.

Obama: The problem is, is that the way Bush has done it over the last eight years is to take out a credit card from the Bank of China in the name of our children, driving up our national debt from $5 trillion for the first 42 presidents - #43 added $4 trillion by his lonesome, so that we now have over $9 trillion of debt that we are going to have to pay back -- $30,000 for every man, woman and child. That's irresponsible. It's unpatriotic.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: windword

federal debt held by individuals

That means they are the recipients of the interest and principal, not in debt.

It also means that my credit card debt and my mortgage are included in the number.

originally posted by: TinkerHaus
After awhile I figured out all of this money is fake. It's a lot less stressful when you realize and accept that it's imaginary.

I don't know that it's really Obama's fault - seems like the inevitable course this country will take regardless of which major party is in power.


I mean no disrespect - I'm genuinely curious; Are you really this one-sided? I see a ton of posts from you that are really very direct. Inevitably someone counters your claims, and you back-peddle in an attempt to keep anything from sticking to you. I'm just genuinely curious if this is all sincere or an altered persona of who you really are?

But because someone else is also guilty of bad things makes Obama innocent when he does them, so in your view, we should ignore it.

For all the little children that speak like that, let me remind you that it is this:

Little Jane says: Mom! Joey took some chocolates from the dish in the living room!

Little Joey says: Jane did it too!!!

Mom (or you) says: Oh, ok, since you both did it lets just forget about it. No one gets in any trouble unless only one of you does anything you weren't supposed to! If both of you do it, it is fine.

So which one are you? Hint: All three are bad. If you defend wrong things with BS like that, then selfish and eager people with a hand out, or "stuck in the cookie jar" like Obama's is, then the greed and the selfishness, and the hypocrisy continue forever. Thank you for proving out this scenario with your astute reply to Xuenchen.

originally posted by: TheBlackTiger
a reply to: xuenchen

Yeah but what exactly would happen then? The debt would be owed in a largely worthless currency which could be replaced pretty much overnight because, as a previous poster said, the actual property and real value is still there.

Then we would look at these countries and say, "What?" and see what they do about it.

A currency collapse would trigger a debt securities collapse.

The trade deficits would also collapse.

The U.S. imports a lot of merchandise.

Massive inflation would start.

originally posted by: windword

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: windword

federal debt held by individuals

That means they are the recipients of the interest and principal, not in debt.

It also means that my credit card debt and my mortgage are included in the number.

You've got it all ass-backwards.

The National Debt is government Treasury debt. Not personal debt.



google: ' personal debt in america '

Yeah, it's going to go up faster and faster.

That's how compounded interest works.

Not only are we on the hook for the principle, now we are also paying interest... and paying interest on the interest... and paying interest on the interest's interest.... and paying interest on the interest's interest's interest... and the interest's interest's interest's interest... and the interest's interest's interest's interest's interest... and the interest's interest's interest's interest's interest's interest... and the interest's interest's interest's interest's interest's interest's interest... and, much like this sentence, it is out of control and doesn't really mean anything anymore.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

hmm, but if the mother calls out joey and not jane, how is that right?

a reply to: AgentShillington

Interest rates are low and have been for a few years.

When they raise 'em up, that's when the collapse will begin.

As demand for U.S. Treasuries withers, the rates will go sky high.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: AgentShillington

Interest rates are low and have been for a few years.

When they raise 'em up, that's when the collapse will begin.

As demand for U.S. Treasuries withers, the rates will go sky high.

Interest rates are low, they aren't zero.

Interest's interest's interest, mate.

a reply to: AgentShillington

except the gov can still come take those assets away from the private citizen who owns all that......

Thats how assets work, and thats what happens when you default on loans, you dont get a loan without collateral.....

And when you tell the gov to stuff it , they come get your stuff..

Heres the other issue, those other people ALSO have weapons and arms and nukes etc etc etc.......

America isnt the only one with these things, and we are very quickly losing value in currency that we already hold, and much of the world is moving away from it......

When you run up debt to the world, and the currency you were promising to pay them back in isnt worth squat.....

Well you get the picture

a reply to: xuenchen

google: ' personal debt in america '

Okay, done.

Private Credit and Public Debt in Financial Crises

Financial crises are usually credit booms gone bust

Financial crises are notoriously unpredictable. Jordà, Schularick, and Taylor (2013a) show that a private credit boom during an expansion raises the likelihood of a subsequent financial crisis. In fact, several measures proposed after the 2008 global financial crisis aim to increase bank capital buffers in times of economic expansion to slow down the creation of credit.

Admittedly, I'm not a financial analyst and when I took Economics in college, trying to comprehend some stuff changed the shape of my forehead, and I was ecstatic with my "C"! But, it seems to me that personal credit and public debt are inseparable in our current system.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

You're losing yourself in your own analogy.

The United States isn't a private citizen, it's the most powerful country in the world. This isn't some misplaced nationalism here. It is a cold, hard, truth. The United States could give the rest of the world the bird tonight, bring all of it's troops home, close it's borders, and do no international trading for decades and be just fine.

We don't need the rest of the world. We like the rest of the world.

They have been providing us with a very cushy existence for years.

No government in the world can collect on any debts from the United States.

a reply to: windword

The majority of the world is locked in a debt endless loop.



And yes, personal debt is almost as high as government debt.

And don't forget about State and Municipal debt.

a reply to: AgentShillington

lol

Its cute that you think that, but thats not the case...

At one point in time we COULD do that, but we simply do not produce enough in the US to sustain that anymore...

Thanks to special interests groups, and many other things...

Now I love my country, I fought for my country, and I WISH this is the way it was......

But again we simply do not have that type of infrastructure anymore......

For one to simply think that we are untouchable just because we are the United States and we have tech and a military is extremely naive....

Again, we have nothing holding up our currency, and we depend heavily on trade , not only for every day goods, but also for the fuel to run this country......

YES we have lots and lots of oil etc etc etc....but it would take many years to get us to the point where we could be self sustaining , we simply do not have enough of the drilling infrastructure or refineries in place, to produce enough energy if our imported fuels were to stop coming in.....

We COULD if we started getting the infrastructure together.....but again thats simply not the way it is

I think your view of America is great, but, were not a king on a hill that cant be dethroned


On a side note, if our currency drops so low that its not worth anything, they wont have to come collect anything, we will be dead in the water, with nothing to barter in , because they wont be taking our dollars...

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: TinkerHaus
After awhile I figured out all of this money is fake. It's a lot less stressful when you realize and accept that it's imaginary.

I don't know that it's really Obama's fault - seems like the inevitable course this country will take regardless of which major party is in power.


I mean no disrespect - I'm genuinely curious; Are you really this one-sided? I see a ton of posts from you that are really very direct. Inevitably someone counters your claims, and you back-peddle in an attempt to keep anything from sticking to you. I'm just genuinely curious if this is all sincere or an altered persona of who you really are?

But because someone else is also guilty of bad things makes Obama innocent when he does them, so in your view, we should ignore it.

For all the little children that speak like that, let me remind you that it is this:

Little Jane says: Mom! Joey took some chocolates from the dish in the living room!

Little Joey says: Jane did it too!!!

Mom (or you) says: Oh, ok, since you both did it lets just forget about it. No one gets in any trouble unless only one of you does anything you weren't supposed to! If both of you do it, it is fine.

So which one are you? Hint: All three are bad. If you defend wrong things with BS like that, then selfish and eager people with a hand out, or "stuck in the cookie jar" like Obama's is, then the greed and the selfishness, and the hypocrisy continue forever. Thank you for proving out this scenario with your astute reply to Xuenchen.

I love how you didn't even understand the point of the comment, then accused me of having an opinion that I did not in any way express. I also love your silly analogy - it literally made me lol!

No, I said it's pointless blaming our failing economy on one man, or even 30 men. It's a problem that has existed for over 100 years now. That's right, the recipe for disaster was written over 100 years ago! To blame one man is either gross ignorance or political baiting. That's ALL I said - so please stop attempting to put your poor words in my mouth.

I hope you now realize that my concern and the reason for my comment lies in the fact that blaming one person is literally doing absolutely NOTHING to fix the problem. In fact, it's a way for the ignorant and lazy to ignore/completely miss the mechanisms that truly make this kind of debt even possible.

Now that I write this, it makes sense.. You do kind of seem like the type of person who has a finger firmly planted in each ear.