Finally saw the full effect of Illegal Immigration in Los Angeles. We're in trouble.

originally posted by: whyamIhere

Hispanics I know are some of the worst critics of Illegal immigration.

Yep, the ones who already have their family here are.

The ones still trying to make their family whole again have a different story.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: whyamIhere

Hispanics I know are some of the worst critics of Illegal immigration.

Yep, the ones who already have their family here are.

The ones still trying to make their family whole again have a different story.

Why do you think that is ?

Are they just selfish or do they know something we don't.

That's always made me wonder.

How to cut to the front of the welfare line, in los Estados Unidos.



Why is it that Illegal Aliens Get Free Food Stamps, Health Insurance and Pay No Taxes?

Americans who are struggling to survive due to high unemployment and low wages may be asking why illegal aliens receive benefits from state and federal governments. Federal law does prevent illegal aliens from receiving benefits meant for American citizens. The only benefit that illegal aliens are allowed is emergency medical care.

Just because illegal aliens are not legally entitled to these benefits does not mean they do not apply for them. Yes. It is true that illegal aliens have received grants, professional accreditations, loans, WIC, disability, public housing, college educations, food stamps, unemployment benefits, and tax credits from state and federal agencies.

a reply to: Krazysh0t
And yet you fail to see that we can not just merely give the money to the country and what you are suggesting is only going to make things worse. So we ship businesses over there to make things better, while at the same time, the US loses more jobs due to the shipping of jobs to a third world country. How many more jobs are going to be lost due to this?

And companies, well they will exploit all of the loop holes in the laws to ensure that they get the best deal, like GE who one year for all of the money they raked in paid 0 in taxes in the USA. How is that benefiting the USA? And if you look at what happens when a US business moves a manufacturing company to a third world country, they are no longer bound by US law, and can pay the employees far less than what the same worker would make in the USA.

The facts are is that the USA can not afford to go and make things better in other countries. How many more countries does the USA need to make enemies out of before we stop interfering in other countries policies. And to do a total change, it would be considered an act of war.

What is not working? Perhaps if we took the kid gloves off and started enforcing the law, and fully to the extent of the law, instead of the min, it may be a different story. And the sad fact is for the length of border there is, the US does not have nearly enough persons and manpower to keep up with the entire length. And do you honestly think it does not work, but keeping up the high numbers? Guess what it does. The facts are, and this is well documented, that when they increase the number of boarder patrol in one area the number of people trying to cross in those areas illegally drop down, though areas where there is less numbers, tends to see an increase. The only way to stem the tide is to put military down there, as a deterrence, and then to get around the Posse Cometeus, would be to deputise them, making the law enforcement with full powers of such.

In order to cause the drop in illegal immigration, and to gain the public support, in short, the US military would be there for the national defense and start used to stem the tide of people crossing at points and to give the border patrol assistance in the terrain where it is difficult, and to continue to patrol. Don’t you realize that the US border patrol, is not allowed to pull any of the firearms that they have on them, to do such, and they can be suspended without pay or even end up shot or assaulted, cause their hands are tied.

There you are wrong, our in the Korean conflict never ended, as there was no end to it. All that was declared was an cease fire and that is it. To this date, there exists on the Korean peninsula a constant state of war, while it is not a shooting war, it exists and based off of the stuff that goes on, could and has flared up from time to time. So the USA is still involved with North Korea, if not then why is the USA still involved in the talks to try to disarm North Korea? Or why are there 30 thousand troops stationed in that country? A military base of a moderate size is about half of that number at the most.

First the federal government needs to make a tough stand, it needs to state that illegal immigrants will no longer be tolerated, that there will be no amnesty that all of those here illegally. You make it hurt and painful for breaking the law, toughen the penalties and include prison time, for those who break those laws. By giving the tougher rhetoric, and showing that you mean business, including increase patrols and taking the kid gloves off, words gets out. While that is happening and a few high profile deportations from the USA, it gives a message that such will not be tolerated any more. This will give the government time to come up with a new plan, to deal with those here already in the USA, giving them an option become a citizen or leave, and once that happens the new policies are put into place, the people are trained and then you relax a bit, but keep ever vigilant on what is going on. It makes it where if people want to immigrate here or come here to work, that is fine but they do it within the constrains of the law and not break the law.

Here is something else for you to chew on: For every illegal immigrant who steals an ID, and social security number, someone who is a citizen pays the price. This means if a person is on social security, they can lose it. And the citizen ends up also having to pay the tax bill if there are taxes due and they get no reprieve or refund if it is proved that their ID was stolen and used by an illegal immigrant.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: whyamIhere
What do you tell the people doing the hard work to become a legal citizen ?

Life isn't fair. Immigration is an issue in flux and must be dealt with differently than we have dealt with it in the past. That's what you tell them.

To the OP. Sounds like it's time to learn Spanish! Buena suerte!

I know more Spanish than you do I bet.

Should I also learn Armenian? How about Tagalog? How about Korean too while I'm at it???

originally posted by: sheepslayer247

originally posted by: lme7898354
Another fact is yes Mexico has been around a lot longer than the United States, so if Mexico is so great why can't they take care of their own? Corrupt government, drugs, gangs and no jobs, that's not the fault of the people of this country, but Mexico is bleeding refugees over our borders. They have no skills, can't speak the language so who do you think picks up the bill for this? If the Hispanic people love Mexico so much why don't they take the initiative and fix their own country instead of becoming a burden on an already overtaxed American economy.

Wow...the ignorance is strong with this one. How much intelligence does it take to say "if you love Mexico so much, why don't you marry it"?

Did you know that illegals do pay taxes? In fact, they even have taxes taken out of their payroll checks, yet many do not file taxes for a return? That money is just left for the government to use. Do they not pay sales taxes, state and local taxes and property taxes?


Pot meet kettle?

How can one who is here Illegally and Undocumented pay PAYROLL tax when it's Illegal to work under Federal law in every state without a valid SSN or work Visa under Federal Law?

Please....let us all know.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: whyamIhere

Hispanics I know are some of the worst critics of Illegal immigration.

Yep, the ones who already have their family here are.

The ones still trying to make their family whole again have a different story.

You do know, that there are Millions of Hispanics in America that have no family South of the border, and have never even been South of the border. Right?

Make their 'families whole again"? So what? why is that our responsibility?

When someone commits check fraud, bank fraud, identity fraud...and goes to jail...do I feel bad that they aren't with their families? Is that a condition of law being law? Family members?

What do silver spoons and amnesty for illegals have in common?

Could being carried through life on the back of cheap human labor, be the secret to acquiring wealth?


Zuckerberg: Undocumented Immigrants 'Should Be Part Of Our Future'

Billionaires Call for Amnesty as Obama Plans to Legalize Millions of Illegal Aliens with Executive Power

a reply to: FyreByrd

I said quite plainly that I am half Portuguese...I am NOT Brazilian.
Brazilians speak Portuguese. BRAZIL is in SOUTH AMERICA
Portugual...is in EUROPE.

Next to us...is SPAIN...SPAIN birthed SPANISH....Mexicans never spoke SPANISH....until the SPANIARDS invaded.

So if I am "racist" for not wanting to almost be killed in a F***ING Hospital because people speak SPANISH...

Then I would have to be "racist" against SPANIARDS also.

And since MEXICO is not a RACE. And most are Mestizo or European blood also...
I would have to also be "racist" against Europeans? Especially Southern Europeans like myself??

Do you see how incredibly stupid this is?

Thank you...

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: sheepslayer247

originally posted by: lme7898354
Another fact is yes Mexico has been around a lot longer than the United States, so if Mexico is so great why can't they take care of their own? Corrupt government, drugs, gangs and no jobs, that's not the fault of the people of this country, but Mexico is bleeding refugees over our borders. They have no skills, can't speak the language so who do you think picks up the bill for this? If the Hispanic people love Mexico so much why don't they take the initiative and fix their own country instead of becoming a burden on an already overtaxed American economy.

Wow...the ignorance is strong with this one. How much intelligence does it take to say "if you love Mexico so much, why don't you marry it"?

Did you know that illegals do pay taxes? In fact, they even have taxes taken out of their payroll checks, yet many do not file taxes for a return? That money is just left for the government to use. Do they not pay sales taxes, state and local taxes and property taxes?


Pot meet kettle?

How can one who is here Illegally and Undocumented pay PAYROLL tax when it's Illegal to work under Federal law in every state without a valid SSN or work Visa under Federal Law?

Please....let us all know.

Simple. They get a SS# illegally and use it on their w-4. It's also easy to get a green card.

originally posted by: sheepslayer247

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: sheepslayer247

originally posted by: lme7898354
Another fact is yes Mexico has been around a lot longer than the United States, so if Mexico is so great why can't they take care of their own? Corrupt government, drugs, gangs and no jobs, that's not the fault of the people of this country, but Mexico is bleeding refugees over our borders. They have no skills, can't speak the language so who do you think picks up the bill for this? If the Hispanic people love Mexico so much why don't they take the initiative and fix their own country instead of becoming a burden on an already overtaxed American economy.

Wow...the ignorance is strong with this one. How much intelligence does it take to say "if you love Mexico so much, why don't you marry it"?

Did you know that illegals do pay taxes? In fact, they even have taxes taken out of their payroll checks, yet many do not file taxes for a return? That money is just left for the government to use. Do they not pay sales taxes, state and local taxes and property taxes?


Pot meet kettle?

How can one who is here Illegally and Undocumented pay PAYROLL tax when it's Illegal to work under Federal law in every state without a valid SSN or work Visa under Federal Law?

Please....let us all know.

Simple. They get a SS# illegally and use it on their w-4. It's also easy to get a green card.

Some...sure.

And yet every Illegal Immigrant is estimated to cost the Government and tax payer from $14,000 to $20,000 average annually. Even with local taxes paid.

originally posted by: amicktd
When are we gonna stop looking at the color of the skin or ethnicity. Really who cares, this world is all of ours. The sooner we stop dividing ourselves and act as 1 human race the better. How are we ever gonna progress as a civilization if we act like this?
I say open all the borders and let everyone sort out their differences.

OK lets understand this very same situation in a smaller more

compact, manageable chunk (forget colour and ethnicity)

Through the night or when your at work, three families of three or

four enter your premises, one family puts a tent up in your yard,

another in your garage, and the third in your porch/outhouse. They

have access to an outside tap (your water) and they help themselves

to vegetables from your patch, maybe find and kill a rabbit. They are

very pleased with the accommodation they have found.......


When you discover them and tell them they cannot stay there that its your

home its too late they have already settled in and liked it so much that they

have already texted their other relations to join them ..... so now

you are well overcrowded in your own premises!! with company you

never invited.....


You cant back down now ... what was it you said??

Quote "I say open all borders and let everyone sort out their own

differences"........

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: sheepslayer247

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: sheepslayer247

originally posted by: lme7898354
Another fact is yes Mexico has been around a lot longer than the United States, so if Mexico is so great why can't they take care of their own? Corrupt government, drugs, gangs and no jobs, that's not the fault of the people of this country, but Mexico is bleeding refugees over our borders. They have no skills, can't speak the language so who do you think picks up the bill for this? If the Hispanic people love Mexico so much why don't they take the initiative and fix their own country instead of becoming a burden on an already overtaxed American economy.

Wow...the ignorance is strong with this one. How much intelligence does it take to say "if you love Mexico so much, why don't you marry it"?

Did you know that illegals do pay taxes? In fact, they even have taxes taken out of their payroll checks, yet many do not file taxes for a return? That money is just left for the government to use. Do they not pay sales taxes, state and local taxes and property taxes?


Pot meet kettle?

How can one who is here Illegally and Undocumented pay PAYROLL tax when it's Illegal to work under Federal law in every state without a valid SSN or work Visa under Federal Law?

Please....let us all know.

Simple. They get a SS# illegally and use it on their w-4. It's also easy to get a green card.

Some...sure.

And yet every Illegal Immigrant is estimated to cost the Government and tax payer from $14,000 to $20,000 average annually. Even with local taxes paid.

Because some not all....Some

Have figured out the system.

Those some, are squeezing every penny they can from our Government.

It's getting worse everyday.

But hey, we are only 18 trillion in debt.

a reply to: FyreByrd

Kind - naw - self-centered much?

Me of all people? Hahahahaha! If you really knew me, you would laugh at that too.

All this same stuff was said about the Irish and Italians before, during and after the Civil War. Don't let fear run your perception and understand that America has always been and will always be a big melting pot, Hispanics are just the latest group to be melted down and stirred into the mix.

originally posted by: sdcigarpig
a reply to: Krazysh0t
And yet you fail to see that we can not just merely give the money to the country and what you are suggesting is only going to make things worse. So we ship businesses over there to make things better, while at the same time, the US loses more jobs due to the shipping of jobs to a third world country. How many more jobs are going to be lost due to this?

With rising standards of living comes rising wages. Mexico won't be so appealing to outsource jobs to if the cost of labor is close to what it is here. Not to mention with the legalization of drugs, a new market (with new jobs) opens up.

And companies, well they will exploit all of the loop holes in the laws to ensure that they get the best deal, like GE who one year for all of the money they raked in paid 0 in taxes in the USA. How is that benefiting the USA? And if you look at what happens when a US business moves a manufacturing company to a third world country, they are no longer bound by US law, and can pay the employees far less than what the same worker would make in the USA.

Again, we are trying to make Mexico NOT a third world country. Stop arguing with existing paradigms... We are trying to change the paradigm. Why is this so hard to see for you?

The facts are is that the USA can not afford to go and make things better in other countries. How many more countries does the USA need to make enemies out of before we stop interfering in other countries policies. And to do a total change, it would be considered an act of war.

At the very least, the legalization of drugs would change Mexico's political and economic makeup. It would only take a good nudge in the right direction from there to get them on the track to the 1st world. It's not like I'm advocating we invade Mexico and establish our own government...

What is not working? Perhaps if we took the kid gloves off and started enforcing the law, and fully to the extent of the law, instead of the min, it may be a different story. And the sad fact is for the length of border there is, the US does not have nearly enough persons and manpower to keep up with the entire length. And do you honestly think it does not work, but keeping up the high numbers? Guess what it does. The facts are, and this is well documented, that when they increase the number of boarder patrol in one area the number of people trying to cross in those areas illegally drop down, though areas where there is less numbers, tends to see an increase. The only way to stem the tide is to put military down there, as a deterrence, and then to get around the Posse Cometeus, would be to deputise them, making the law enforcement with full powers of such.

If it works so well, why are there record numbers of people crossing the border illegally every year? You can self-delude all you want, but I live in reality. In reality, we are just throwing money at a problem that is mostly handled individually by the border states. Part of the make up of our country is states' rights and there is no way to bring a unified front here, because each state has its own government.

And now you are advocating martial law and violations of the Constitution. Do you hear yourself speak? All to keep people, yes PEOPLE, from entering the country. Your thinking has clearly warped. I'm starting to think that your motivations for border security don't all come from them just being illegal.

In order to cause the drop in illegal immigration, and to gain the public support, in short, the US military would be there for the national defense and start used to stem the tide of people crossing at points and to give the border patrol assistance in the terrain where it is difficult, and to continue to patrol. Don’t you realize that the US border patrol, is not allowed to pull any of the firearms that they have on them, to do such, and they can be suspended without pay or even end up shot or assaulted, cause their hands are tied.

That's because using lethal force on unarmed civilians (especially ones from other countries) is a violation of the Geneva Convention. You are starting to go off the reservation here man. You want MORE violence to stop people fleeing violence in their own country instead of just trying to stop the violence at its source. Insanity...

There you are wrong, our in the Korean conflict never ended, as there was no end to it. All that was declared was an cease fire and that is it. To this date, there exists on the Korean peninsula a constant state of war, while it is not a shooting war, it exists and based off of the stuff that goes on, could and has flared up from time to time. So the USA is still involved with North Korea, if not then why is the USA still involved in the talks to try to disarm North Korea? Or why are there 30 thousand troops stationed in that country? A military base of a moderate size is about half of that number at the most.

Having a political relationship with a country (especially a hostile one) ISN'T the same as trying to rebuild it. We are not actively inside the North Korean country working with or overseeing their government to try to rebuild the country with democracy. That is NOT happening, nor has it ever happened.

First the federal government needs to make a tough stand, it needs to state that illegal immigrants will no longer be tolerated, that there will be no amnesty that all of those here illegally. You make it hurt and painful for breaking the law, toughen the penalties and include prison time, for those who break those laws. By giving the tougher rhetoric, and showing that you mean business, including increase patrols and taking the kid gloves off, words gets out. While that is happening and a few high profile deportations from the USA, it gives a message that such will not be tolerated any more. This will give the government time to come up with a new plan, to deal with those here already in the USA, giving them an option become a citizen or leave, and once that happens the new policies are put into place, the people are trained and then you relax a bit, but keep ever vigilant on what is going on. It makes it where if people want to immigrate here or come here to work, that is fine but they do it within the constrains of the law and not break the law.

Prison time for illegals? Do you not remember that they had to RELEASE tons of illegal immigrants from the jails because they were overcrowded with illegals?

Here is something else for you to chew on: For every illegal immigrant who steals an ID, and social security number, someone who is a citizen pays the price. This means if a person is on social security, they can lose it. And the citizen ends up also having to pay the tax bill if there are taxes due and they get no reprieve or refund if it is proved that their ID was stolen and used by an illegal immigrant.

Irrelevant. Ever heard of the Nigerian prince email scam? It's not just illegal Mexicans who are stealing identities. Not to mention there are American citizens who also steal identities. Your point would hold water if that was the majority of people who steal identities, but its not. That is a false equivalence fallacy.

its stuff like this that makes me glad my indian tribe is soveriegn and self sufficient.

we have a layer of shielding against this type of class warfare. mainly due to strict citizenship laws. if you dont have a degree of blood that you can prove a thousand times over you can forget about any freebies.

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: whyamIhere
What do you tell the people doing the hard work to become a legal citizen ?

Life isn't fair. Immigration is an issue in flux and must be dealt with differently than we have dealt with it in the past. That's what you tell them.

To the OP. Sounds like it's time to learn Spanish! Buena suerte!

I know more Spanish than you do I bet.

Should I also learn Armenian? How about Tagalog? How about Korean too while I'm at it???

You should learn the languages that allow you to communicate with all the people that make your life what it is. If you can't order a pizza without learning Italian, either don't order pizza anymore or learn Italian. But if you can order a pizza in Italian or English, there is no reason to learn Italian.

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
I know more Spanish than you do I bet.

Good. But I lived in Phoenix for 15 years and now in New Mexico for 15 as well... So, I'm pretty immersed in the culture. I happen to love it.

I grew up in Texas. Born in El Paso, grew up in East Texas until aged 15 and then back to El Paso to finish HS and go to UTEP. El Paso was the first place I had ever seen a McDonald's menu in Spanish. I can get why El Paso is mostly made up of Hispanics. I've no problem with immigration. My mother's grandparents...came over in the late 20's from Scotland and Czechoslovakia. My father's family has been here since 1649. At any rate....I TOTALLY get what the OP is trying to convey and I also agree with an early responder that this country has PURPOSELY been divided through illegal immigration.

I had to go to El Paso in August 2012 to be there during the final months of my father's life as he was dying of cancer. I had not lived in EL Paso since 1986. While there, I needed to update my social security card, (yes, I had been married 13 years at that point...but I AM quite the procrastinator.....), and had gone to the local social security office. Nobody was "white" there but me. I got a "number" and waited in the waiting room....and waited and waited and waited.....after about 30 minutes, I went up to a live person to find out what was going on....I was told my number had been called 15 minutes before! IN SPANISH!!!! The entire time I was sitting there, the numbers were being called in Spanish. At first, they would call them in both English and Spanish....but after about 10 numbers, they just stopped calling the numbers out in English. I was pretty "Texan" about it and bitched to the "agent" that it WAS still America/Texas and last I checked, English was still the primary language spoken in America....(I know to the primarily Hispanic population in the SS office and the wussification of American thru the idea of "political correctness", I must have looked like quite the fool....but I have a strong opinion about certain things, ya know and I ain't shy!) I was able to immediately get taken care of as the agents thought it was pretty funny that I didn't speak nor understand much Spanish.

I now live in Chicago and have made replies and posts about what I feel about the new barrios popping up all over the United States over the past decade. I have NO PROBLEM with immigration.....(hell....I even had a boyfriend in the mid 90's who had to run away from communist controlled Poland in the 80's and came to the US "illegally"!)....but ASSIMILATE A LITTLE BIT!!! I should NOT have to press ONE for English. I should NOT be seeing Mexican flags being waved in the streets with young men yelling "vivo Mexico!"" (I got punched in the face for making a comment to someone about THAT one...and I am a middle aged FEMALE and all I said was, "if you love Mexico so much, go back...").
I work in medicine and EVERY DAY have a patient who comes in for treatment who DOESN'T speak a word of English...and most have been here for YEARS! I work for an Assyrian MD...and the Assyrian patients either speak English or bring someone who does, (it's normally the older folks who don't speak English). These people from Iraq are PROUD to be American and do everything they can to keep their culture, but still be patriotic Americans. The Hispanic ones I se, unfortunately, don't speak English AT ALL. Even the young ones BARELY speak English. Why would they want or even NEED to learn English? There are entire neighborhoods where NOTHING BUT SPANISH is spoken, written....I feel like I am IN Mexico when I am in these neighborhoods, (or Guatemala, Honduras, etc etc)!
I am not rude enough to not use the few words I DO know in Spanish...but for the most part, the exam is done in sign language....as the Spanish speakers EXPECT to be spoken to in Spanish....to be accommodated. My POLISH patients don't expect this.....the Assyrians don't...the Nigerians don't....The Russians don't.....I'm sure ya'll get what I am trying to say. Call me a racists...but I know I am not writing what I am because I think anything LESS of a person because they are of a different race, culture, etc...but DANG IT....at least TRY to not have this "we're gonna take over" attitude...don't EXPECT the rest of the country you have chosen to take advantage of to leaner YOUR language.....learn the one that is MOSTLY spoken by MOST of the people living in that country....and in America...that language may not be "official"...but it IS ENGLISH, (at least for now....)

The ONLY two countries I have been to that have a LARGE amount of English speakers have been Sweden and Saudi Arabia. I didn't have to even try to speak Arabic or Swedish. (though I tried to at least learn a little of both languages as I was in both for about 3 months). In other countries, I am sure there is no "push 2 for English" options.

I can tell this is a very touchy topic...not just on this site, (though I can almost FEEL the tension based on some of the replies here). There are a LOT of opinions bout the subject. MY opinion is that an immigrant from ANY country should at least TRY to assimilate into the predominant culture. If the cities in the US start to get even worse in their separate neighborhoods, etc....we WILL be a nation divided, (though I think it's already too late). It is MUCH easier to control a divided population than one that is united. We should all be AMERICANS...NOT African Americans or Hispanic Americans or Asian American...etc etc

but hey...I'm getting to be an old lady....I'm sure my great grandparents were SHOCKED with the changes THEY saw during their 95+ years on this planet!

Peace, ya'll