Finally saw the full effect of Illegal Immigration in Los Angeles. We're in trouble.

a reply to: sheepslayer247

So it seems to me that people are just whining because they are inconvenienced and do not like the fact that some people may speak a different language.

I think it's also about a perceived lack of respect and deference - among other things. How uppity of them to speak in their own language and demand that things be done in Spanish (even if it's a logical result of not being here for that long and not so much an actual demand)

When one of my great grandfathers brought his daughters to this country they spoke Italian. Back then, the Italians were the Mexicans of today. They were leaving a country with fewer opportunities during hard times and arrived here by the thousands. They worked hard jobs for less money and were competing with citizens that had been here for a while and with other newly arriving immigrants from other places that were also going through hard times

My great grandfather never did learn to speak English - but his daughters did. They were living in an Italian neighborhood - no surprise there - why wouldn't they? Assimilation takes time. Also - not everyone learns a new language right away or as easily as some demand. Especially if you're older

My other grandparents all came here because they were fleeing difficulties and dangers in their homelands - Ukraine, Russia, Poland - Czechoslovakia...all poor - all speaking languages other than English. Took the next generation or the next to sort all that out. The Poles lived in tight communities and spoke Polish - same with all the rest

There were people back then that said all the same things: they were lazy, dirty, diseased, dishonest. They stole jobs - they had too many kids...

Maybe these people are here illegally, but they're as human as any of these whiners - and they're here for a reason. Those reasons are less important than the letter of the law - apparently. Their illegal status makes them criminals I guess - if you want to get all technical about it. The fact that they're illegal AND won't speak English (yet) - well - the rest is just obvious

This thread is so disappointing, in so many ways

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

ers - and they're here for a reason. Those reasons are less important than the letter of the law - apparently. Their illegal status makes them criminals I guess - if you want to get all technical about it

I do want to get all technical about it.

They broke the law. Rewarding this behavior only encourages more illegals.

What is disappointing is the lack of respect for our laws.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Assimilation takes time. Also - not everyone learns a new language right away or as easily as some demand. Especially if you're older.

Some of the illegals I knew were here for many years, understood and spoke English...when they felt like it.

a reply to: whyamIhere

And that is the large/big issue.

The person here illegally is a criminal. They came here illegally. They are staying illegally. They are criminals.

Rewarding criminals seems to be the way of the world these days.

a reply to: Night Star

When one group came in such uncontrolled numbers illegally, then we were forced to change. Why do you think it is that we never had these problems before?

What changes have been forced on you? Can you not live your life and speak your language?

This all goes back to my original thought. This is all about people not liking to be inconvenienced. So what if you have to press one for english? Are you too lazy to press one button?

Don't like that a restaurant doesn't speak English, take your business elsewhere.

Freedom baby!

a reply to: whyamIhere

Do as you wish - speak your mind

I don't care - doesn't affect my position one bit. I don't respect your position

If you hadn't noticed - they're people. That's good enough for me

It's a burden on our country - true enough. Take a look around at the world these days. What do you see? This is not going to end any time soon. Argue about your special rights and privileges as a citizen all you want. You got born here? Good for you. You came here legally? Excellent

Life doesn't always play out according to the rules however, and if you needed to, you would do exactly whatever it took to improve your lot in life - and to change the circumstances for your family - legally or otherwise

I would rather live in a society that recognizes our humanity than one that plays by the rules only

Until we start addressing the whys of this situation instead of complaining about how you can definitely feel that stupid pea under your mattress princess - we are all in for a miserable future

Have your opinion - and I'll have mine. I feel completely comfortable with that

a reply to: Night Star

Some of the illegals I knew were here for many years, understood and spoke English...when they felt like it.

Naughty naughty Mexicans - how dare they?

Years from now - farther down the road (when it's not at all useful to this thread) most of these people (if not all) will not only be speaking English - they might also be voting Republican

Seriously Night Star - do you ever give this a rest? How does this affect you - other than it just pisses you off?

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Maybe these people are here illegally, but they're as human as any of these whiners - and they're here for a reason.

No kidding! You are so wise OMG! Of course they are human. I can't tell you how many illegals I knew through the years and WHY they came here. They saved money for years so that they could return back to their own Country. They said our money was worth so much more in their home Country and would live well off. I know some who already moved back and are certainly well off. They had no intention of staying here. They were not poor as it cost them for fraudulent documents, stolen identities...

Some women had husbands working under the table while they themselves worked and lied saying they were a one income household with kids. Combined incomes were well above the poverty limit and yet they received food stamps, medical, cheap housing. Not all illegals are here fleeing from danger and poverty. Many said they were told to say they were fleeing danger or lived in poverty and they would get a lot by coming here. There is much deceit that cannot be ignored. We have our own citizens who don't allow their kids to play in their own backyard for fear they would get shot or raped or whatever. They can't afford to move to a safer place.

I have always expressed in these types of threads how I have compassion for all people no matter what color they are or where they are from, but I will also stand strong against what I see as wrong and unfair to the American people.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Then why have laws at all ?

Of course illegals are human beings.

Human beings that flagrantly flaunt the laws of this Nation.

Let as many in as you want...Please just do it legally.

Let me tell you how broken up I am that you don't respect my opinion.

I'm not.

a reply to: whyamIhere

Go ahead - complain about the illegals. It's not going to change anything

The kinds of things that will change this situation are going to come after a great deal of hardship and a lot of concessions. Or a great deal of hardship - and no concessions

You won't be happy

Or - I won't

Either way, all I see are people. There will be plenty more where they came from

Much of my thread (this one) has focused on language. I have a big hand in that fact also. But if people here think my only gripe is the language barrier (Spanish, Armenian, Tagalog, Korean, etc) then you guys are delusional.

I haven't even really spoken about loss of services, higher taxes due to the Illegals THEMSELVES, more cars and traffic, loss of education, degradation of wages in multiple industries, overnight changes in entire neighborhoods, property values TANKING.

Screw the language. We can leave that debate off the table and I still could make 10 OTHER threads like this.

Capisce?

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Capisce?

Not very brave - are you?

:-)

Si, lo comprendo...you dislike the Mexicans

I think we picked up on that

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: whyamIhere

Go ahead - complain about the illegals. It's not going to change anything

The kinds of things that will change this situation are going to come after a great deal of hardship and a lot of concessions. Or a great deal of hardship - and no concessions

You won't be happy

Or - I won't

Either way, all I see are people. There will be plenty more where they came from

Please try to understand what I'm saying.

I have nothing against these people.

To me, it's all about the law.

I will welcome every single person that wants to become an American.

But, I will not welcome people that jump the people doing it right.

I just want them to respect the laws of the Nation the want to become a citizen of.

Why do they get special treatment ?

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Capisce?

Not very brave - are you?

:-)

Si, te comprendo...you dislike the Mexicans

I think we picked up on that

Because you're a disingenuous liar?

I just invited my very Mexican friend to go fishing up in Big Bear. And he's super Mexican.

I've probably dated more Mexican girls than you've been friends with. And guess what? I've actually dated TWO Illegal Immigrants from South America.

How's that race baiter?

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Capisce?

Not very brave - are you?

:-)

Si, te comprendo...you dislike the Mexicans

I think we picked up on that

Because you're a disingenuous liar?

I just invited my very Mexican friend to go fishing up in Big Bear. And he's super Mexican.

I've probably dated more Mexican girls than you've been friends with. And guess what? I've actually dated TWO Illegal Immigrants from South America.

How's that race baiter?

He calls everyone names.

Don't take it personal.

a reply to: whyamIhere

You don't want me to understand what you're saying - you want me to agree with what you're saying

What I'm saying is - they are here for a reason. They're human beings

However angry you are now, there were people 20 years ago that did hate the Mexicans, even if you don't - and those Mexicans are now speaking English and paying taxes

You can all go on and on about all the problems they bring - and try to reduce all your anger and frustration down to silly arguments about how dare they not speak English...

None of this changes anything

There will be more - count on it

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Because you're a disingenuous liar?

I just invited my very Mexican friend to go fishing up in Big Bear. And he's super Mexican.

I've probably dated more Mexican girls than you've been friends with. And guess what? I've actually dated TWO Illegal Immigrants from South America.

How's that race baiter?

How was I race baiting? What did I lie about?

:-)

Go on - let's see what you've got

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: whyamIhere

You don't want me to understand what you're saying - you want me to agree with what you're saying

What I'm saying is - they are here for a reason. They're human beings

However angry you are now, there were people 20 years ago that did hate the Mexicans, even if you don't - and those Mexicans are now speaking English and paying taxes

You can all go on and on about all the problems they bring - and try to reduce all your anger and frustration down to silly arguments about how dare they not speak English...

None of this changes anything

There will be more - count on it

Because you take some Hippie dippy line of "they're human beings" to me, shows you come from a simple mind. You can't understand NUANCED thinking, because you're simple. Things make sense to you in bumper sticker form, or slogans on T-Shirts.

The world is simple to you, like to a child.

I could say "Charles Manson is just a human being". It means nothing.

And the fact that you say "More will come, count on it" validates my thread even more.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

You're lying, because you're trying to goad this thread into being about just language or "Mexicans". You know this isn't true in the face of everything I've written here. But you're a disingenuous liar. And that's what liars do.

No amount of cutsie smiley faces you post with your threads as a passive aggressive 'taunt' can change that. people aren't as dumb as you are, or as you think THEY are. You're actually quite transparent. And your inability for nuanced thinking shows you are simple.

Simple people think they're cute through passive aggression. But you're as obvious as a wart on a nose.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Because you take some Hippie dippy line of "they're human beings" to me, shows you come from a simple mind. You can't understand NUANCED thinking, because you're simple. Things make sense to you in bumper sticker form, or slogans on T-Shirts. The world is simple to you, like to a child.

They are human beings

You think my thinking is simple?

OK - but that doesn't change anything

There will be more

Now, why are they here?