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Trinities in old pagan religions (Air, Water, Death)

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posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 10:06 PM
a reply to: Tangerine

I thought you might know the Land Sea Sky trinity, I left out the linking of the two via Imbas, as thats not an "element" so much as a thread.

I am always amused when people get bent out of shape when someone challenges their belief system. Its like people assuming deity X was a god of Y. Most deities were far more complex than that. Thor for example is a fertility god as well as god of "hitting giants to death with his hammer ...uh I mean war". Lugh is more than a Sun god etc But people cling to these ideas.

I also seem to have angried the natives up. Oh well, such is the life of the Druid

posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 11:16 PM
a reply to: Noinden

I'm not chiding anyone

I do not intend to stir hostilities, but it sure appears condescending and chiding to say things such as:
"Sigh This thread had a great deal of potential, but its now become a dogma fest."


"What confuses me is the quick segway into the classical 4 elements, but I guess it is what people are msot familiar with."

It was actually you who were the first to mention the "classical 4 elements" in this thread. The OP did not mention the "classical" 4, but instead, mentioned a triad of Air, Water, Death,.... with the inclusion of a 4th (Creator),... and the consideration of a 5th (Heaven). The OP and myself later discussed the "classical 4" in continued speculation of the op's initial 3, 4, and 5.


"I was offering alternatives, which is more than anyone else has done."

In my opinion, Akragon and 3NL1GHT3N3D1 gave wonderful on-topic and supplemental information directly related to the op, and others beside yourself gave alternatives.

Instead of elaborating on the specific 3, 4, and 5 archetypes of the op,... you ignored it to speak of different 2, 3, and 9 systems of the Indo-Europeans and Gaels, and to defend and propagate your understanding of paganism.


"if the Greeks did it, every one else in the area must have"

Incorrect. This has nothing to do with giving priority to Greece or incorrectly attributing anything to paganism. The OP actually mentions this sharing of archetypes between the Sumerian, Canaanite, Greek, Roman, and Indian mythologies.


"I am always amused when people get bent out of shape when someone challenges their belief system."

"I also seem to have angried the natives up."

I have not a single belief to defend or propagate in this thread. I even said that any and all numbers, elements, and archetypes are merely for our own individual understandings and reasonings. All systems are lacking and none are absolute. Why? Because no matter what we name a thing, it will always "Be What It Is." No set of archetypes, elements, or numbers can contain the true essence of existence. "It is what is is."

I am simply seeking discussion related to the op to better understand why these archetypal systems are shared by the Greeks, Romans, Canaanites, Sumerians, and Indians. A way different Indo-European or Gaelic system is for another thread and a different discussion, unless you can come full-circle to relate it directly to the triad of Air, Water, and Death, or with the inclusion of a 4th Creator and a 5th Heaven.


"you are being rather sensitive which makes me wonder a number of things."

I had no idea that discussing your replies was synonymous with sensitivity. I called you my brother, which is how I feel about all humans, and I also communicated in a clear fashion.

Perhaps it is my fault that somehow you incorrectly assume that I am "sensitive", or "bent out of shape", or "angered". These character attacks aren't true


Since you are familiar with Indo-European and Gaelic systems,.... could you please elaborate for us if there are any significant correlations to the specific groupings of (Air, Water, Death), or (Creator, Air, Water, Death), or (Heaven, Creator, Air, Water, Death)

I'd love to learn more about Indo-European and Gaelic systems, but that is for another thread. Perhaps you could make one?

edit on 12/3/14 by Sahabi because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 03:17 PM
a reply to: Sahabi

Moving on since the back and forth is not good for hte therad.

You are going to have a huge issue with finding the "creator" aspect in any Celtic lore. It no longer exists. In the Cymric, Gaelic, and what we know of the Gaulish mythos, there are no "creation myths" thus no "creator deities" to slot into that. Now absence of something is not proof it did not exist, but one can not fit that in. But the aspects that might include air, water and death can be identified (but deities are much more complext than that and its sort of a false classification but anyhow ....)

Sticking to what we know of the Gaels (and please remember there is no "Irish pantheon" as each kingdom in Ireland saw it a little differently).

Water would either be Lir or his son Manan (though he is more of a psycopomp than anything else).
Air: Uh thats hard Lug may or may not have been associated with storms (his spear may be a representation of lightning, or a sun beam, or just a spear). In the Gauls I'd say Teutatus is a likely candidate.'
Death: Balor could be seem as this, though its more likely Donn, the lord in the house of the dead, and first Gael to die on Irish soil

Like I said its more complex, and people have a habit of pidgeon holing deities, and missing the point. For example An Morrigan (the Morrigan) is a title, one held by Danu (one of the only times the name Danu appears in the myths!) Danu is seen by many as a "creator goddess" or mother goddess. Thats not really all she does (she's a crafter as well). But the Morrigan is seen as the Goddess of war, death and sex to some. SHe's also sovereignty of the land, prophesy, magic and more. Thats just "Stuff she did" as opposed to "what she is supposed to do". I find it helpful to see Indo-European deties as part of a tribal structure for hte people they are in, so its complex political interactions.

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