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White Guilt...The Newest Form of Racism

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posted on Dec, 1 2014 @ 02:53 PM
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originally posted by: whyamIhere
That's right...White Guilt is the newest form of racism.

Can I help what color I was born...Can You ?

It seems that I must pay for the sins of members of my family from 200 years ago.

My family did own eight slaves....Am I responsible for this outrage ?

People pretend hating white people is not racism...It is.

So let me ask, what is it these white haters want ?

What do we owe people of color ?

When will people realize they are doing the exact same thing as whites did.

Hating people for the color of their skin.









1) First, there is a continuing system of both overt policies and subtle subconscious perceptions that is stacked against many minorities. So, racism and oppression continues.

I have been working to address such issues for a while, mainly through poverty and education work. We do have a responsibility to address such inequities. However, beyond that a white person does not have any responsibility nor should be judged by their race.

2) Having said that, I too have seen people take potshots or make hateful statements against random white people (including me) or say themselves what should be considered racist, stereotyping, or essentializing statements about all white people. I've seen it and it pisses me off, even though I know about the first point I made.

3) What is infuriating is when someone says such a statement or acts prejudicial towards white people, and I say something, then immediately someone will go back to point number one, "but there is a history of oppression and institutionalized racism, therefore reverse racism is impossible." I've seen that argument trotted out so many times I can't even count.

The problem with this argument is that it tries to claim that because there is historic oppression in one direction, therefore it is impossible for a minority to display ignorance or hate towards a white person or white people in general. This not only is inaccurate experientially but ignores social science and the EQUAL ability for a person of any race to do good or bad things, including be racist.

It also sets up a double standard and seeks to give license to any negative behavior towards whites because of slavery or institutions. "It's wrong to stereotype, judge someone, speak badly to, or essentialize a person or group based on being of African descent" but "How dare you be offended that we just did that to White people?"

4) Final point: Not all of us white people have ancestors that owned slaves. Not all white people even had ancestors around during those times. My ancestors were poor Swedish and German farmers who moved to rural Minnesota around 1900. My whole family line was largely uneducated and poor Mennonite farmers until basically after WWII.

So when people talk about "ALL white people" and what their ancestors did, it is stereotyping and historically inaccurate. I mean sh$t, hordes of white ethnic groups didn't even participate personally in colonialism or in slavery.

This doesn't excuse slavery in the slightest, but is merely providing a nuanced more accurate view of history.




posted on Dec, 1 2014 @ 02:54 PM
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If you did all those things then I stand corrected. As you say "we" can only assume you took part in these things.

Everyone has the means to resist. Everyone. It's when people behave like cattle that they are treated like cattle.

One side can shout "Wounded Knee" as an example of the atrocities committed by the US Government while the other can shout "Little Big Horn" to prove the Indians ability to resist.

Accepted genocide was easier than a bloody war? Can you condone that for a people? Would you accept that for your people?

I have enough guilt over the things I did without further burdening myself with the sins of my great-great grandfathers.



posted on Dec, 1 2014 @ 02:56 PM
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If you think owing slaves 200 years ago is bad how do you think I feel my father actually bought a YUGO!!




posted on Dec, 1 2014 @ 03:01 PM
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originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Yeahkeepwatchingme

But we haven't, still to this day if you bring up the plight of a minority you are " race baiting" or "pulling the race card".
People act like the way to go is to just not talk about it and it will just go away, not the case.


I'm with you on one acknowledging the past and educating ourselves on the effects of it on various groups, especially marginalized groups. It is also our responsibility to dismantle whatever vestiges of oppression remain. Also, we have to acknowledge and address the effects in the form of poverty caused by much of the history.

However, a problem I have, as someone who has been doing all of the above professionally actually for a decade, is when people start saying racist, ignorant, stereotyping, essentializing, hateful statements about all whites. I've seen it happen now a lot.

Do I understand it based on pure anger and hundreds of years of history? Yes. Does it make it right to turn around and do what you claim to want ended (stereotyping, judging, showing prejudice towards, etc, based on race) to white people? Hell no.



posted on Dec, 1 2014 @ 03:03 PM
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A YUGO!!.....you may be excused to hang your head in shame!a reply to: mikell




posted on Dec, 1 2014 @ 03:06 PM
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originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: sdubya

I was specifically pointing out the economic system and the media as making the US the most racist country on the planet.

You don't see other nations basically running a Salem Witch trial to get the President to show his birth certificate do you?

That's the sort of thing I mean. American politics and media are deeply entrenched in racism. It makes them a lot of money.

`Tenth


But it is not. Go live in Asia for a while, or a lot of other 99% one race country. East ASia is known actually as one of the most racist regions in the world. People say things you could have only gotten away with here in a bygone era.

Yes the US has race problems, but that is partly due to it having all of the races thrown together in a way which no other country has besides maybe England or a few other places.



posted on Dec, 1 2014 @ 03:13 PM
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a reply to: whyamIhere

It's quite obvious something needs to be done. The same apologists that issued statements for their involvement in financing slavery, JP Morgan and other large banks apparently don't give a damn.

These same schmucks are still heavily invested in weapons, prisons and human suffering.

If reparations can be doled out for the holocaust victims then surely these same investors who financed greatly from both atrocities, slavery and the holocaust, can pay up for their role in financing slavery.

Even today, banks that were involved in the slave trade are still invested in human suffering around the world. As a matter of fact l just read an interesting article that points right at JP Morgan Chase and the bank of America, along with Wells Fargo, as still providing financial support for cluster munitions, an internationally banned weapon.

Apologies are moot when you continue to make and help create financial backing for atrocities.

If their is a claim for reparations, then let it be with the elite, not the common man. For these are the ones who indiscriminately provide monetary support for whoever, wherever, and however they can make a buck, regardless of the cost to human life.








edit on 1-12-2014 by Daedal because: edit



posted on Dec, 1 2014 @ 03:14 PM
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originally posted by: Grovit

originally posted by: billyvonhelvete
Same here, im covered in tattoos, shaved head and love very fast heavy metal, in some peoples eyes that makes me neo nazi skinhead!!, the more that people get treated like this, the more likely that sooner or later their abuisive insults will create a racist.a reply to: Grovit



ive been called cracker several times and had things muttered in my general direction. that was the first time i have been called a nazi though.
music does play a part though.
depends what i am listening to when i roll up i guess.
it could be anything from frank zappa to primus to curtis mayfield...


And I am one who thinks that another race calling me or you a "cracker" is a racist action. I'm a liberal. I work in social justice. I work ON these very topics. But I'm getting sick of what would be racist or bigoted actions/statements towards any other group being magically okay when done to a white person.



posted on Dec, 1 2014 @ 03:19 PM
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a reply to: Grovit

These same tired 'points' are always popular with apologists. ("but but the Irish!" FTR, my Irish forebearers owned slaves and had Irish indentured servants)

Time for a reality check. Some free black people did own slaves — that's true — but how many and why? Well in 1830, it appears that of about 2,009,043 black slaves, 12,907 were owned by other black folks. Of black slave owners, about 42% owned a single slave. (see Free Negro Owners of Slaves in the United States in 1830 by Carter G. Woodson). Much of this can be attributed to free blacks purchasing their own family members.

Another interesting thing to note is that when Anthony Johnson died, because he was black and therefore not a citizen of the colony, his property was not transferred to his children but rather to the colony.

It's pretty pathetic that these sorts of arcane factoids are always dragged out by apologists to somehow create an imaginary gray area. Something like 1% of all people are sociopaths so why should it be surprising that a fraction of a single percent of black slaves were owned by opportunistic free blacks?

edit on 2014-12-1 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2014 @ 03:26 PM
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originally posted by: rickymouse

I feel more bad for the way some people are treated to inequality today than what happened a century or more ago. We need to treat others fairly today, and not give them extra because a few slave owners capitalized on slaves.



FAIRNESS


Yes I believe in fairness, but fairness to ALL.

Not the fairness which is loaded against the best 'person' for

a vacant position.

Employers have to fulfil a 'quota' percentage of immigrants/

blacks, even if their qualifications are not as good as the 'best person

for the job'.


FAIRNESS !



posted on Dec, 1 2014 @ 03:29 PM
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a reply to: tothetenthpower

Thank you.

This is why foreigners are some of my favorite people lol



posted on Dec, 1 2014 @ 03:41 PM
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originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: Grovit

My history teachers never taught me that.

So I don't know if they're racist or just don't want to be called racists. I had to learn that myself, by reading about him on the internet.


same...

he was not the only black slave owner either....
blacks were selling blacks in africa long before slavery in the states

www.theroot.com...

Nicolas Augustin Metoyer of Louisiana owned 13 slaves in 1830. He and his 12 family members collectively owned 215 slaves.

R. Halliburton shows that free black people have owned slaves "in each of the thirteen original states and later in every state that countenanced slavery," at least since Anthony Johnson and his wife Mary went to court in Virginia in 1654 to obtain the services of their indentured servant, a black man, John Castor, for life.

And for a time, free black people could even "own" the services of white indentured servants in Virginia as well. Free blacks owned slaves in Boston by 1724 and in Connecticut by 1783; by 1790, 48 black people in Maryland owned 143 slaves.

Perhaps the most insidious or desperate attempt to defend the right of black people to own slaves was the statement made on the eve of the Civil War by a group of free people of color in New Orleans, offering their services to the Confederacy, in part because they were fearful for their own enslavement: "The free colored population [native] of Louisiana … own slaves, and they are dearly attached to their native land … and they are ready to shed their blood for her defense. They have no sympathy for abolitionism; no love for the North, but they have plenty for Louisiana

So what do the actual numbers of black slave owners and their slaves tell us? In 1830, the year most carefully studied by Carter G. Woodson, about 13.7 percent (319,599) of the black population was free. Of these, 3,776 free Negroes owned 12,907 slaves
---------------------------

you dont hear about that in history class.

quite frankly im tired of hearing about the big bad white man and slavery.
people enslaved other people..
i was not one so i do not feel a shred of guilt



posted on Dec, 1 2014 @ 03:42 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

I think that is mostly due to the rewriting of English history


Cromwell's Campaign is simply "the Irish fleeing economic hardship at home".
(we will gloss over the 500K-900K killed in 3 years or roughly 1/3 of the Irish population).

We will write that famine required many to seek better lives elsewhere.
(we not say that in a single decade Irelands population was decimated due to deaths and slavery)

We will make it all about the EVIL white man and argue racial lines to skip the simple fact that they ran out of Irish people worth turning into slaves.

The fact the blacks owned slaves even a minute amount (like New Orleans 28% of the population) is important for one reason. The topic white guilt. You say a small ratio of blacks owned slaves. Did a large ratio of whites own slaves (1.45% by population)? Why then should whites have guilt over this period in history?


edit on 1-12-2014 by 200Plus because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2014 @ 03:48 PM
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a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

im tired of it too.
even being called 'white boy' which has happened many times, mostly while in school.

im just supposed to be ok with it

what do you think the reaction would be if i said 'hey black boy'

the fit would hit the shan

and as far as educating about slavery....i agree...
but the real story..the whole story...
and in school too.
school teaches about slavery. school does not teach about the thousands of blacks that owned slaves...
i never heard about it in all my years in school

did any of you?

let me say that being called white boy many times over didnt in fact bother me. it bothers me that if i were to use the term black boy it would be the damn end of the world, but white boy is totally cool

thinking back to the school days...from elementary school all the way through

i was called cracker lots of time. in front of other kids and in front of teacher..
a teacher never once said to the person calling me that not to use that term

had i said the word that is never to be uttered though, forget it...
talking expulsion for that

real fair and equal

edit on 1-12-2014 by Grovit because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2014 @ 03:51 PM
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a reply to: Grovit

Or for that matter can you imagine what would happen if someone on ATS used a slang against black people? Instant ban. Use words meant for white people though.....

I'm always called white boy, then I sit back and listen to them complain about the white man keeping them down. What a pathetic state of affairs. I suggest many look into mirrors, and realize if anyone's holding them back, it's themselves. No one holds another back, it's personal responsibility. Accountability and responsibility, the system needs it and so do the civilians.



posted on Dec, 1 2014 @ 03:53 PM
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originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme

Or for that matter can you imagine what would happen if someone on ATS used a slang against black people? Instant ban. Use words meant for white people though.....

.


yup.
totally cool to to say cracker...it is not blocked out
the term for blacks that is never to be uttered is censored out and if you try to type around it, youre gone

but we can cracker it up all day

thats how it is every where



posted on Dec, 1 2014 @ 03:53 PM
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a reply to: Grovit

And it's ignorant. All I'm going to say.

Absolutely ignorant.



posted on Dec, 1 2014 @ 03:54 PM
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originally posted by: Grovit
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

im tired of it too.
even being called 'white boy' which has happened many times, mostly while in school.

im just supposed to be ok with it

what do you think the reaction would be if i said 'hey black boy'

the fit would hit the shan

and as far as educating about slavery....i agree...
but the real story..the whole story...
and in school too.
school teaches about slavery. school does not teach about the thousands of blacks that owned slaves...
i never heard about it in all my years in school

did any of you?


And i agree with you about if some statements that are said about white people or phraseslike "White people can't dance" or what have you were made about a minority, there would be immediate condemnation of "racism." But magically it's okay now for minorities to say such statements.

A perfect example was recently there was a Salon article by I think an American of Middle East descent. The title of the article was "Why I cant stand White belly dancers," and proceeded to shred all White belly dancers for cultural appropriation. www.salon.com...

I'm like, okay, sure, SOME people disrespect other cultures and the context of various cultural practices. But i guarantee if I was to run an article entitled "Why I hate Black classical piano players," and bitch about how African Americans dare to "act white" and play our holy European classical music, people would flip a lid in the media.

So it's not so much that I disagree that we should respect each other's cultures, it's the double standard.
edit on 1-12-2014 by Quetzalcoatl14 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2014 @ 04:04 PM
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I'm reminded of a story one of my Brothers told me (he is Jamaican):

His sister was on her way to a Black Power rally of some type when she was a teenager and wanted their father to go. "come on Dad you have to go" she kept saying to him. "Why should I go?" he kept asking her over and over again because he didn't want to go. She got tired of the argument and said "you have to go because your black!" and he responded "But I'm not black, I'm Irish"

It's all a matter of what you identify with I guess. A state of mind I suppose. His father fought with the RAF and considered himself Irish. My brother was Jamaican and I'm American. It was never white/black or anything else, but that's the rub.

People can get along closer than families, while Peoples will always find conflict eventually.
edit on 1-12-2014 by 200Plus because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2014 @ 04:08 PM
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a reply to: Grovit

Are you channeling Andrew Brietbart?

You quote line after line of text and then stop mid-paragraph when you see something you don't like?


In 1830, the year most carefully studied by Carter G. Woodson, about 13.7 percent (319,599) of the black population was free. Of these, 3,776 free Negroes owned 12,907 slaves


What's the rest?


Of these, 3,776 free Negroes owned 12,907 slaves, out of a total of 2,009,043 slaves owned in the entire United States, so the numbers of slaves owned by black people over all was quite small by comparison with the number owned by white people.


That's what like 0.6%?




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