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originally posted by: Seede
As far as burning forever. We make that decision ourselves, not God. Once again, God did not make you. Your parents made you with their own free choice. Why blame God for what your parents did? God might have known because of His foreknowledge but He most certainly is not to blame for our actions.
Yes, he does. He hardened Pharaoh's heart against him when Pharaoh was considering letting God's chosen people go. He hardened his heart and then he punished all of Egypt for it. God also sends strong delusions on those who choose not to believe in him. The strong delusion is so that they may believe lies. In my mind this is more free will manipulation. Deluding people so they believe lies would only make it harder for them to find their way to him. Oh and then he destroys their soul in hell because of it.
originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: TzarChasm
First there is no hell, so there is no burning forever for sinners.
Just non-existence for those that refuse to acknowledge God's sovereignty over his planet and creation which includes us.
Secondly genetic imperfection because of sin varies from person to person and God never holds it against anybody, he knows we inherited sin and we had no choice in the fact that it degrades us, especially with age.
originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: TzarChasm
Nah, if billions of people had there genetic code redone to a perfect state you would still have an amazing variety of looks, and personal taste would dedicate you would like some like some looks more than others. But humans in general would be better looking and perfectly healthy. Healthy people actually look better those that aren't generally anyways.
Plus what sin did in genetic terms is after around 21 to 28 years old brand new cells are replaced with new genetically older cells, and every 7 years the process repeats itself to the next level, making a person age. Inherited sin is the cause of this, scientists can't figure out why we actually grow old and die, theoretically the new cells should be genetically as good as the old ones, but they aren't.
The first death people experience is the physical death. But the Bible refers to a second death as well. This second death is that of your soul. The second death happens when you're cast into the crucible of Hell. It's only eternal and everlasting in the sense that it's a permanent death. Not in the sense that it's continual torment. It's permanent separation from God because you were judged and found wanting. The gift of the spirit is eternal life and the punishment for sin is death.
That just means that you are are suffering on account of your forsaking the ways of the world, that if you acted like the world, they would not persecute you.
1 Peter 4:1 whoever suffers in the body is done with sin.
originally posted by: Seede
Rom_9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Exo_7:14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Pharaoh's heart is hardened, he refuseth to let the people go. Exo_8:15 But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said. Exo_8:19 Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.
There are more scriptures on this subject but I chose this to show you my premise. The Pharaoh of Egypt had freedom of choice and chose to disobey Moses and his own magicians. Not once but well over ten times. Even under indisputable proof the Pharaoh denied Moses' God by choice. Pharaoh hardened his own heart by choice and then by action of his choice. God did not interfere with Pharaohs freedom of choice. God allowed Pharaoh to act upon that choice and then God intervened after the choice became an act.
Rom_1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
After the choice was made by the Pharaohs mind and it became a deed of the flesh with no repenting action from the Pharaoh is when God gave him over as a reprobate. The OT declares this as hardened. The Pharaoh hardened his own heart before God gave him up as lost. But that is not to say that God did not allow him the very same freedom of choice that He allows all life. To believe otherwise would be to say that God plays favorites before choice becomes an act. That would be the same as mind control and that is simply not theologically true.
To prove this is to see that if God had manipulated the Pharaohs mind then the deeds of the flesh would not have happened. Because the plagues did occur ten times with warnings of repenting given ten times proves that God was long suffering to a reprobate minded man. So God only intervened after the fact and not before the fact. There is always a choice or decision of the mind before an act because the two are separate happenings. The decision or choice is made by the spirit and the the spirit directs the flesh to act. A choice by the spirit can be changed whereas the act of flesh cannot be changed. God gave Pharaoh well over ten times to change his choice before Pharaoh acted. Pharaoh gave himself over to a reprobate mind and then acted upon that choice.
Broadening the subject of God playing favorites, I would argue that's exactly what he does. As proof I use the story at hand (the Exodus). The story of God's chosen people. Out of all the inhabitants of the world at this time, he chooses a small group of humans to reveal himself to. Then he proceeds to send them on a genocidal war path and commands them to kill other people for this and that petty (especially petty if you're a creator being) reason.