Ferguson Corruption PROOF

a reply to: deadeyedick

Threatening? Really. Ill cut you some slack here because you dont read these things, I see. You should before you look worse than you do now. It is the logic of firearm instruction classes.

By more than a few of us, the training we received, and by those who know.

Ill give them your address. Youll have aprox 0.5 seconds to make your point.

Again...in case youre arent reading this all the way through either...its taught in FIREARMS INSTRUCTIONS..give or take a few seconds and ft.

No more threats please. Its foolishness and silly on your part.

Respectfully speaking.

a reply to: deadeyedick

Make up your mind. First you said he was hiding behind a tree. Now you say he was behind a car. Pick a made up story and stick with it please.

Again, once the initial confrontation took place Wilson never saw the other subject again. And at no point was Brown ever 100 feet away from Wilson. Now you're implying that Brown ran nearly 150 feet away and that Wilson was 100 feet away from him and somehow closed that gap down to 10-20 feet in the time it took Brown to turn around and start moving back towards Wilson, and THEN Wilson reversed direction and backed up 10-20 feet. Wilson must be a track star in your mind.

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: deadeyedick



Threatening? Really. Ill cut you some slack here because you dont read these things, I see. You should before you look worse than you do now. It is the logic of firearm instruction classes.



By more than a few of us, the training we received, and by those who know.



Ill give them your address. Youll have aprox 0.5 seconds to make your point.



Again...in case youre arent reading this all the way through either...its taught in FIREARMS INSTRUCTIONS..give or take a few seconds and ft.



No more threats please. Its foolishness and silly on your part.



Respectfully speaking.

i agree that it is what is taught. itt was not a threat at all. it was an invitation. i will stand by it. knife vs gun the winner depends on the mindset. .5 sec is .3 more than it would take if one has the weapon of choice and holster of choice. yes if you are giving instruction to your average gun purchase then it is somewhat needed to prove a point but outright there are too many factors for me too accept it as fact cause i have seen different.

originally posted by: Grovit
'you' are the one using the distance of 25 feet as fact even though it is an approximate
'you' are the one that decided how long it takes to say what 'you' say wilson said
'you' are the one that brought kenyan distance runners into this discussion
'i' am amused by 'you'

Technically, it's a bit more than what the Grand Jury estimated, and he's getting the 25 feet from my analysis.
Here's what the grand jury said:
Grand Jury Volume 24 (pg. 88-90).

GRAND JUROR: I know we've heard evidence that Michael Brown after he turned around and advanced back towards Officer Wilson, and we have our diagram of the crime scene with the measurements on it and I just want to make sure I'm interpreting all of this right. So as far as physical evidence, we have the blood on the ground that was about 21 or 22 feet from where Michael Brown ended up. So we know for a fact that's a minimum distance he might have advanced and from eyewitness testimony that placed him at the corner of Coppercreek, that dimension looks like it is closer to 48 to 50 feet; is that correct? So that would be like an outer --

Witness: I'm going to look at this diagram also just so I'm sure we are on the same page here. this. So you're saying, obviously, would be zero right here, right.

GRAND JUROR: The distance was 48 feet

Witness: Correct, yes, sir. So we would say, and you made reference to the blood on the ground. So from this point here, the red stains in the roadway are identified what was later determined to be Michael Brown's blood as Items 19 and 20 on the key for the diagram. So Items 19 and 20, so the zero is here, identified as being 31 feet and 26 feet 7 inches, and this direction here, and then you're correct in saying if we continue to move west on Canfield Drive, Michael Brown's left foot and right foot for that matter are, 48 feet 2 inches, yes, sir.

GRAND JUROR: If I did the calculation that was 21 and a half feet?

Witness: Yes, sir.

GRAND JUROR: Physical evidence, eyewitness reports would have doubled that.

Witness: 21, 22 feet between the blood and where Michael Brown's body was when we arrived, yes.

Point 0 is the point grand jurors established as the point Michael Brown likely turned around, per witness testimony, some 48 feet from Brown's body. The first bloodstains are documented at the crime scene and simple math gives a distance of 21-22 feet from the furthest bloodstain to Brown's body. 25 feet was an approximation on my part, giving a little bit more distance than the grand jurors settled on. By Wilson's testimony, Brown was running at him and didn't really stop or slow down.

After the shots at the SUV, the maximum distance Brown could have traveled if Wilson opened fire immediately is 48 feet in 6.57 seconds, which is an average speed of 7.3 feet per second (running is a bit more than 20 fps, so the distance would have been closed in about 3 seconds if that were true). It is more likely that there was a delay, as testified by Wilson, where he ordered Brown to stop. Additionally, it takes a little under 0.2 seconds for the average person to respond to visual stimuli. Hence, it is likely that Wilson fired his third shot (first in the audio) at Brown somewhere between 21 feet and 48 feet from where Brown ended up dead.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: deadeyedick



Make up your mind. First you said he was hiding behind a tree. Now you say he was behind a car. Pick a made up story and stick with it please.



Again, once the initial confrontation took place Wilson never saw the other subject again. And at no point was Brown ever 100 feet away from Wilson. Now you're implying that Brown ran nearly 150 feet away and that Wilson was 100 feet away from him and somehow closed that gap down to 10-20 feet in the time it took Brown to turn around and start moving back towards Wilson, and THEN Wilson reversed direction and backed up 10-20 feet. Wilson must be a track star in your mind.

take your lies some place else i have never typed the word tree in any furguson thread.

It does not matter if wilson seen him again. He was only 50' away from wilsons vehicle and if he had been a real armed thug wilson would be dead.

do me a favor and address the op.

a reply to: Phage

Okay, I never thought I'd find myself saying this publicly, but I've run out of stars to give you, Phage. Seriously, my finger cramped from clicking the mouse.

Not only did I wholeheartedly agree with every comment you've made (my head's still spinning on that one), but you've actually managed to insert logic into the Michael Brown discussion (I might get whiplash from that mind-numbing fact).

Now that I've made the above statement, I'll standby for you to say something that aggravates me.

Other than that, I have nothing to add to this discussion, beyond, "Pants up, don't loot!".

a reply to: deadeyedick

Nope nope nope. The current world records for fastest draw and fire are somewhere between .219 and .404, depending on the event type. Again, spouting off "facts" with no proof or evidence.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
. i will stand by it. knife vs gun the winner depends on the mindset. .5 sec is .3 more than it would take if one has the weapon of choice and holster of choice. .

why do you stand by this?
what are you basing this off?
thanks

a reply to: deadeyedick

Now now. You can't be willing to take your debate all over the map to try and find something to be right about and then demand that others stick to the OP. It's your thread bubba, but don't tell everybody else they can't do the same thing you are.

so now you're saying that the other subject ran 50 feet away and hid behind a car? So why is it that Wilson should've been worried about him instead of the guy standing at his window who just assaulted him? I don't see the logic in worrying about somebody who has run 50 feet away from me and has been no threat to me at any time, and ignoring the person who's assaulted me and is next to my vehicle?

Bottom line: the other subject wasn't armed and wasn't involved in any physical confrontation. Wilson pursued the subject who he was in a confrontation with. It's NOT proof of anything. At all. Whatsoever.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: deadeyedick



Nope nope nope. The current world records for fastest draw and fire are somewhere between .219 and .404, depending on the event type. Again, spouting off "facts" with no proof or evidence.

you are very misleading in every thought you type.

Show me where i said anything about drawing a weapon.

the scenerio fails because the one with the knife never had intentions of using it but only to prove a demo. in real life and death things are much different.

forget that just adress the op.

Let's debate those facts and if all the haters want to create a thread where me and all the off topic comments made here are the topic i will be there to enjoy the chuckles.

wilson lied in his statments about mikes actions.

wilson lied in his statments about mikes actions.

wilson lied in his statments about mikes actions.

originally posted by: deadeyedick

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: deadeyedick



One man has a knife and is 20 ft in front of a man with a gun. The one with the knife starts to come at the other quickly.



Who wins? Gun or knife?



Knife does....because in 3-4 secs he will reach the gun holder before he can draw and fire.



Knives wielding threat will travel 20ft quicker every time.



Learned that in 3 (three) sep. Firearms training classes



So...your proof...isn't.

i will give you my address if you ever want a real life demo of your flawed logic

See? That's exactly what you said actually. That a person can draw a gun before a person with a knife 20 feet away can get to them. And then volunteered yourself to prove yourself right. But now the speed with which a person can draw and fire a weapon suddenly doesn't matter, and you want everybody else to address the OP when you yourself won't stick to it?

a reply to: deadeyedick

Given all the potential factors...you just admitted you can't accept that. Oh...and my classes were not for purchasers...it was advanced law enforcement and military based suppositional training about understaning potentially misunderstood situations.

Just because youve said you cant accept it, doesnt mean its not true. Nor that it IS true.

These Range Instructors-instructional training points were well taken for this "what-if"?. And according to a few other members, they were also made aware of the same outcome for the premise presented.

Maybe we could send an instructor over to your place so you can correct them? I mean...given all the potential variables n all...???

a reply to: mysterioustranger

No man, now it doesn't matter. It's not pertinent to anything apparently.

wilson had ample opportunity (split-second decision?) to engage the guy utilizing less lethal means; a tazer would do, but he chose to unload his weapon on him instead. endorsed live on tv..."policy is to shoot to kill"?

He chose a more lethal means against an *unarmed individual* when (he didn't have to), and i'll give a rat's ass if that is why he resigned after not only soiling himself, but the whole department.

If wilson is/was not in the wrong, why did he resign?

originally posted by: loveguy
wilson had ample opportunity (split-second decision?) to engage the guy utilizing less lethal means; a tazer would do, but he chose to unload his weapon on him instead. endorsed live on tv..."policy is to shoot to kill"?
cant use a tazer if you dont have one. he didnt have one and was not required to have one. thats been stated a bunch of times

He chose a more lethal means against an *unarmed individual* when (he didn't have to), and i'll give a rat's ass if that is why he resigned after not only soiling himself, but the whole department.

If wilson is/was not in the wrong, why did he resign?

the resignation has nothing to do with guilt.
this has become a world spectacle
there was a bounty on him and his family
there is absolutely no way he could be a cop in ferguson right now...

has zero to do with guilt

a reply to: loveguy

Brown had no arms?!

Wilson resigned because if not he would be ambushed and murdered.

No if, ands, or buts about it.

I don't know of any LEO that wouldn't resign in his position.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Phage

the witnesses that said he was shot in the back could have been telling the truth givin that wilsons testimony has now been found to be some what false. there were 6 or so shots that could have been fired whild browns back was turned to wilson but they missed. there was one injury to the arm that could have come from behind or from the front if his arms were elevated. so when you look at it the other way that is another piece that fits.

their is enough evidence to return a true bill but was ignored.

25' 9 seconds and charging does not fit.

you can not just dismiss these facts just because you do not like what they point to.

Somehow missed this. Was bored and reading through again.

So...we know Wilson fired two shots in the car. You say "6 or so shots could have been fired at Brown but they missed." That's a total shot count of 8 so far. Brown was struck by at least 6 shots. So we know one of the initial two rounds missed. So we're at one hit and seven misses so far. Brown still has to get hit 5 more times. So that's a total of 13 rounds fired, minimum. Wilson still had one round left in his weapon. I think we've stumbled on a second gunman!

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: deadeyedick



Given all the potential factors...you just admitted you can't accept that. Oh...and my classes were not for purchasers...it was advanced law enforcement and military based suppositional training about understaning potentially misunderstood situations.



Just because youve said you cant accept it, doesnt mean its not true. Nor that it IS true.



These Range Instructors-instructional training points were well taken for this "what-if"?. And according to a few other members, they were also made aware of the same outcome for the premise presented.



Maybe we could send an instructor over to your place so you can correct them? I mean...given all the potential variables n all...???

Nobody i know round here would even wait for the knife to be drawn. The lesson would be cut short. That was the just of my response that if i came to your house with a knife i would likely get shot and the other way around.

It is true both ways that we are limited by our training. think deep about that one

putting that aside it still shows that wilson was off with his remarks about distance and actions. The comment may have been aimed at showing what one could do in 25' but it only shows that all the things brown said happened in that time could not fit in the time and distance aspects of his statments.

originally posted by: deadeyedick

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: deadeyedick



Given all the potential factors...you just admitted you can't accept that. Oh...and my classes were not for purchasers...it was advanced law enforcement and military based suppositional training about understaning potentially misunderstood situations.



Just because youve said you cant accept it, doesnt mean its not true. Nor that it IS true.



These Range Instructors-instructional training points were well taken for this "what-if"?. And according to a few other members, they were also made aware of the same outcome for the premise presented.



Maybe we could send an instructor over to your place so you can correct them? I mean...given all the potential variables n all...???

Nobody i know round here would even wait for the knife to be drawn. The lesson would be cut short. That was the just of my response that if i came to your house with a knife i would likely get shot and the other way around.

It is true both ways that we are limited by our training. think deep about that one

putting that aside it still shows that wilson was off with his remarks about distance and actions. The comment may have been aimed at showing what one could do in 25' but it only shows that all the things brown said happened in that time could not fit in the time and distance aspects of his statments.

I find it absolutely stunning that you're sitting here railing endlessly against Wilson for over reacting, making things worse, not doing things "normal" people would do, going outside what you believe policy is, and you say something like this.

You just said you know people, and given that you offered to provide your own address I think it's safe to include YOU in that "people" you know, who would shoot somebody who they believed had a knife but that hadn't drawn the knife yet, and were over 21 feet away. You just said you and others you know would shoot somebody based purely on the belief that they were armed and may have intent to harm you, but had not displayed a weapon and were not close enough to touch. And you say that after everything you've posted the last several says. That is utterly mind blowing to me.

I was told there would be proof in this thread. Do we have to get to a certain higher page count to unlock it? How many gamer points is it worth?