Dying man cured with vitamin C, doctors deny it.

I felt compelled to make this thread after seeing an anti-alternative medicine thread.
High-dose vitamin C is considered an "alternative therapy".
Anything outside the accepted procedures of the medical establishment is considered 'alternative'.

Obviously, there are quacks and frauds out there trying to profit from the gullible, but to dismiss anything outside mainstream medical care as bunk or quackery is not fair.


The case of Allan Smith, a New Zealand Dairy farmer, is very well-known.


"The doctors were in unanimous agreement that IV Vitamin C would be useless and a waste of time, and that the patient will certainly die."




After Smith recovered, one of the doctors actually stated outright that the vitamin C had nothing to do with Smith's recovery!!!

When Jeffrey Dach, a medical doctor who cited Smith's case, spoke in favor of vitamin C and other nutritional supplements, he was attacked for "trying to sell supplements and alternative therapies" through his website.
The Jefrey Dach M.D. site.

a reply to: ColeYounger

you can't patent some of the natural remedies, that and the practices of alternative therapies would cut into the bottom line.
that's why they called him a quack and deny that they work.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: ColeYounger

you can't patent some of the natural remedies, that and the practices of alternative therapies would cut into the bottom line.
that's why they called him a quack and deny that they work.

Exactly. One of the pharmaceutical giants (I think it was Merck) tried to patent CoQ10 when it was found to be extremely effective in treating heart ailments. They thought if they worded everything properly in the paperwork, they could actually patent a nutritional supplement, and keep others from selling it.
CoQ10

I have replied about my own condition in the 'alternative medicine is bunk' thread.
The thing is, we don't even know how a lot of traditional medicine works, but big pharma has enough money to push to get the medication approved in order to maximize their own profits. Most people are unable and unwilling to think outside the box, and just want to follow rules, rules that is written in their textbooks, whether it is a medical textbook, or some other textbook. The current push in medicine is that everything is chemical, and a lot of times we use a nuclear bomb to kill a mouse. (radiation therapy, chemotherapy, broad-spectrum antibiotics, etc.) The time has come to realize that the human body is a combination of mental, chemical and electric systems.

Sure, there is a lot of hoaxes in alternative therapies/medicine, but the same applies to any other field. Unscrupulous people wants to make a quick buck, and brings alternative therapies in bad reputation. The hoaxes in 'formal medicine' just gets covered up because the companies perpetrating it have enough power and money to cover it up.

When our bodies do not get the required nutrition, Disease and illness will set in. Modern medicine Does nothing to address that problem, it only deepens the problem. Drugs create a more acidic PH range in the body driving it closer to cellular degradation. When the body is given the proper nutrition it WILL heal its self. Has been proven over and over and over. Big Pharma and the old school medical society will refuse to admit that. Also most doctors are not trained in nutrition and will refuse to believe in anything other than what they were told to believe.

a reply to: ColeYounger

i was gonna watch it but just looking at the image in the screen and seeing him look bloated like he has been dead and floating in the water for a few days, i'll pass

i will stick by my theory that he was not cured with vitamin c though.
no proof. just a feeling

i made my own Liposomal Encapsulated Vitamin C and tried it when i got a bad flue last year and it worked fine for me , my temperature was normal for the first time ever , its easy to make when you have all what it needs to be made.



i had an argument with pharmacist in Munich this summer regarding Liposomal Encapsulated Vitamin C and she didn't believe in it because she goes by the books , books that depended on a researches , researches that were funded by pharmaceutical companies

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Big Pharma makes a mint selling "alternative" remedies. Why? Because there's enough gullible people to buy them and they don't need FDA approval. Same goes for all of these so-called "alternative" therapies.

a reply to: ColeYounger

The plural of anecdote is not data. And yes, some quack doctor hawking "alternative" remedies off his website doesn't exactly do wonders for his credibility. Funny how people are quick to dismiss pharma companies because they're in the money making business but when some alternative quack does it, no one bats an eye lid.

a reply to: GetHyped

The plural of anecdote is not data

I agree. That's why I get my data from sources like PubMed and real life cases, as opposed to anecdotes and heresay.

a reply to: ColeYounger

We can't store vitamin c so with a constant maintaining of high doses running constant...maybe it does something?

originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Big Pharma makes a mint selling "alternative" remedies. Why? Because there's enough gullible people to buy them and they don't need FDA approval. Same goes for all of these so-called "alternative" therapies.

below from my post

you can't patent some of the natural remedies, that and the practices of alternative therapies would cut into the bottom line.

what part of some did your not understand?

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

They don't need to patent them. They just crank out the same crap as the rest of the "alternative" manufacturers. And they make a pretty penny doing so.

originally posted by: Grovit
a reply to: ColeYounger

i was gonna watch it but just looking at the image in the screen and seeing him look bloated like he has been dead and floating in the water for a few days, i'll pass

i will stick by my theory that he was not cured with vitamin c though.
no proof. just a feeling

Here is a non video description of the case of Alan Smith. I hope it doesn't get cut out by mods because it's very difficult to edit out any part of this without skewing the complete picture.

Allan Smith, a New Zealand Dairy farmer, contracted Swine Flu while away on vacation in Fiji. When he returned home, the flu quickly evolved into severe pneumonia which left him in a coma on life support in the Intensive Care Unit. Chest x-rays showed the lungs were completely filled with fluid with an “opaque” appearance called “white out”. After three weeks of this, Allan’s doctors asked the family permission to turn off the machines and let him die. Allan’s wife Sonia had a brother with some medical knowledge, so he stepped in and said, “you haven’t tried everything, You have got to try high dose IV vitamin C on Allan”. At first, the doctors resisted, saying it was useless. Next, the three sons weighed in with a persuasive argument to try the IV vitamin C, saying there was nothing to lose.

The doctors were in unanimous agreement that IV vitamin C would be useless and a waste of time, and that the patient would certainly die. However, one doctor felt “slightly uneasy” with the decision to turn off life support, without first acceding to the family’s wishes, and so they reluctantly agreed to give the IV vitamin C. Their plan was to give the IV vitamin C, show it was useless, and then turn off life support.

That day, Allan Smith was given 25 grams of IV vitamin C in the evening and another 25 grams in the morning. The next day, a CAT scan of the lungs showed improving air flow and a few days later the chest x-rays showed the lungs were no longer white, indicating air movement. The improvement was dramatic, clear and plain for all to see. However, the doctors denied it was the vitamin C, and instead, attributed the improvement to “turning patient into a prone position”.

Soon after starting the IV vitamin C, Alan could be taken off ECMO life support, and started breathing on his own. However, unexpectedly, a different physician consultant came in, took over the case and stopped the IV vitamin C. Alan Smith’s condition promptly deteriorated. Allan’s wife, Sonia, called a meeting with this new doctor to no avail. The new doctor rolled his eyes, looked up at the ceiling and uttered, “No More Vitamin C “. Not giving up so easily, the three brothers again weighed in, and demanding the IV vitamin C for dad. The three brothers again used their powers of “persuasion”, and the new doctors reluctantly gave in, restarting the life saving IV vitamin C, but only at low doses of one gram a day. The brothers said, “Mucking about with the vitamin C showed in his fathers health”. “You had to be thick not to see it.”

Allan’s condition continued to improve and was eventually transferred to a hospital closer to home, still breathing with ventilator assistance. Here, the family had yet another battle with a new doctor who again stopped the IV vitamin C. This time, the family brought in a lawyer who sent a warning letter to the hospital threatening legal action. The hospital was forced to restart the vitamin C, however, allowing only low dosage. Finally, Allan Smith was able to sit up in bed and take oral liquids. On their own, the family gave their dad 6 grams a day of oral vitamin C. This was a highly absorbable form called Lypo-Spheric Vitamin C.

Allan continued to improve and was discharged home from the hospital.
- See more at: healthimpactnews.com...

a reply to: mysterioustranger

Actually, we can and do store vit c ... for around a month or so. What we cannot do is MAKE it in our bodies due to a genetic mutation. Only six or so animals we know of cannot synthesize vit C in their bodies (usually in the kidneys and liver), and must get their c from food sources (or supplements)... the unlucky animals that have to get it from diet are humans, great apes, Guinea pigs, a parrot and fruit bats ...from memory.

The FDA saying all we need is 250 mgs to prevent scurvy (a disease that kills by disintegration) is true, but once one looks deeper, a higher dose seems prudent. A lesser, borderline scurvy, or vit c deficiency, might be responsible for a host of diseases... even heart disease.

If all animals that make their own c were the same size/mass, the average amount made in a healthy body in 24 hours ranges from 3 to 13 grams (from memory). If sick or stressed, much more is made. Humans have to get theirs from food... and as not many folks eat 20 to 30 oranges a day, taking it as a supplement doesn't seem unreasonable.

I knew vit c was essential for life ...i.e. a vitamin... but didn't know the finer points of the dosage arguments and how many diseases besides scurvy seem to be benefited by c ... and how a molecule of c produces a molecule of collagen, the stuff that literally holds us together. Proper dosing seems to produce some great benefits.

I had a massive, dangerous infection that was completely cured in a few hours by simply "megadosing" vit c... up until then, I thought larger doses was largely hype... now I know better.

It's fascinating and partially controversial... and money factors and lack of information can murk up many health discussions... and there are a whole lot of quacks out there... but vit c is essential and while not a total panacea or immortality serum, it certainly is a huge piece of the health puzzle. There just isn't much money in it, though.

For anyone interested, here's an online book that's considered a ground-breaking treatise on vitamin C:

(Written by biochemist Irwin Stone)

The Healing Factor

originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: ColeYounger

The plural of anecdote is not data. And yes, some quack doctor hawking "alternative" remedies off his website doesn't exactly do wonders for his credibility. Funny how people are quick to dismiss pharma companies because they're in the money making business but when some alternative quack does it, no one bats an eye lid.

Often misquoted, as you have done, here is the proper quote.

The plural of anecdote is data

From askville (Amazon) Nelson W. Polsby PS, Vol. 17, No. 4. (Autumn, 1984), pp. 778-781. Pg. 779: Raymond Wolfinger's brilliant aphorism "the plural of anecdote is data" never inspired a better or more skilled researcher.

I e-mailed Wolfinger last year and got the following response from him:

"I said 'The plural of anecdote is data' some time in the 1969-70 academic year while teaching a graduate seminar at Stanford.

The occasion was a student's dismissal of a simple factual statement--by another student or me--as a mere anecdote. The quotation was my rejoinder.

Since then I have missed few opportunities to quote myself. The only appearance in print that I can remember is Nelson Polsby's accurate quotation and attribution in an article in PS: Political Science and Politics in 1993; I believe it was in the first issue of the year."
I also e-mailed Polsby, who didn't know of any early printed occurrences.
What is interesting about this saying is that it seems to have morphed into its opposite -- "Data is not the plural of anecdote" -- in some people's minds. Mark Mandel used it in this opposite sense in a private e-mail to me, for example.

From here... The plural of anecdote is data after all.

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: ColeYounger


We can't store vitamin c so with a constant maintaining of high doses running constant...maybe it does something?

(EDIT: I just read Baddogma's post above, so this post is seconding his motions. Heed both posts, wanderer, and change thou life!) (a sure benefit)

We don't store it because no lifeform ever had to store it - the body made it all the time. Insects, plants, goofy Red Pandas, birds, fish, everyone, is making it every moment - except for primates and guinea pigs (and a bat species or two). Primates have a genetic disease which doesn't allow us to produce it normally, although the body tries continuously (it can make four of five steps I believe, and then runs up against the genetic break).

a reply to: Baddogma

Thanks very much...I learned a few things (more)!

MS
EMT/ERT

reading a lot about vitamin C here. Just be careful with it, if you have hemacromatosis (The body absorbs and stores too much iron). Vitamin C increases the body's absorption of iron, and if you have hemacromatosis, that is the last thing you want.