Did NASA just admit they never put Man on The Moon? [Video]

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

I can't imagine the Orion's computers being so magical compared to other Moon Mission computers in the last four years that they would have "challenges" that "must be solved".

With an imagination like that, I'm pretty sure future astronauts are glad that you won't be designing their spacecraft.

Then I'm sure that you can explain it to me, I would like to learn.

-MM

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation
Others already have done so. Several times. It didn't take.

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation

originally posted by: eriktheawful
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation
The Apollo astronauts went through this area very quickly. They didn't spend days, weeks or months being exposed to it. Their exposure was between 0.0016 to .0114 Sv or 0.016 to 1.14 rads.

And what makes you think that Orion has to be exposed by more Vann Allen Belts radiation than Apollo? The video speaks of Vann Allen Belts being the challenge and not other radiation.

-MM

With that statement right there, you've shown you have not fully research the Orion space craft.

They are planning on using it for more than just moon missions.

a reply to: eriktheawful

BTW, I saw that infographic some time ago and it is one of my favorite ever. Love it!

-MM

originally posted by: eriktheawful

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation

originally posted by: eriktheawful
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation
The Apollo astronauts went through this area very quickly. They didn't spend days, weeks or months being exposed to it. Their exposure was between 0.0016 to .0114 Sv or 0.016 to 1.14 rads.

And what makes you think that Orion has to be exposed by more Vann Allen Belts radiation than Apollo? The video speaks of Vann Allen Belts being the challenge and not other radiation.

-MM

With that statement right there, you've shown you have not fully research the Orion space craft.

They are planning on using it for more than just moon missions.

I have addressed the Mars argument of 500 days of radiation at least twize before in this thread, so that is not true. The NASA Enginer in the OP video explicitly talks about the Vann Allen Belts radiation being the challenge and never mentions Mars or other space radiation.

-MM

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation
Others already have done so. Several times. It didn't take.

Obviously not, perhaps they did not apply enough adhesive to make it stick?

-MM

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

Fourth or fifth time now. If you can protect against the Van Allen Belts, then deep space radiation, barring a major event, will be less than that at any given time. Long term exposure will be higher than the VAB exposure, but at any given time, it will be lower.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

Fourth or fifth time now. If you can protect against the Van Allen Belts, then deep space radiation, barring a major event, will be less than that at any given time. Long term exposure will be higher than the VAB exposure, but at any given time, it will be lower.

Other radiation sources than from the Vann Allen Belts is not in the context of the video.

-MM

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

Yes, and that's half your problem.

You have decided to fixate on a single phrase spoken by a engineer, and then decided that it's a smoking gun for the Moon Hoaxers.

I'm sure that engineers think everything is easy and there are no challenges when it comes to building and testing things anymore. Right?

I mean, they just build a jet liner and stick customers on it. Just sure that it's going to work fine and not fall out of the sky.

I'm sure that when structural engineers find out about some new material, they just go out and build a sky scraper with it, and don't worry about testing and challenges they might meet using it (until the building falls over).

Orion was built from scratch. It's using new equipment. It's using equipment designed to keep astronauts alive, using new technology that has not been tested before.

It's a challenge.

You don't test it by slapping people in and sending them on their way, hoping to dear god that they survive.

Do you have ANY other evidence besides that single sentence? Any NEW evidence at all?

Or is that all you have? A single sentence in a video that you've taken out of context?

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

OK, follow along here, and TRY to keep up.

A. The Van Allen Belts are areas of strong radiation, that would give an unprotected astronaut a large, fatal dose.

B. Orion is being designed to go through that area, and NOT give the astronauts, or the computers, a dose of radiation that is a problem.

C. Orion is going to Mars, among other places.

If Orion can get through A, with no problems, then C is not going to be a problem, and they don't have to worry about shielding for a long term mission, because at any given point during the mission the radiation levels will be lower than they are in A. That means that if you shield enough for the VAB region of space, you're shielded enough for a trip to Mars, and that shielding isn't a problem.

It's NOT this hard to understand.

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

actually health report state that 6 people that came back from a place past the Van Allen belt(A.E. the moon had nearly lethal amounts of radioactivity so it is real or its Americas most believable sci-fy movie

a reply to: TopTopic

Source please.

I'd like to read it.

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation
Others already have done so. Several times. It didn't take.

Obviously not, perhaps they did not apply enough adhesive to make it stick?

-MM

apply your logic to normal day life.

if i was to build a bridge over a 500m high, 200m wide ravine and i based it on a wooden footbridge that other engineers has built successfully, would you drive a fully loaded 18-wheeler over it?

p.s. i havent done any test for my bridge, no stress calculations, all i know is that other people have built a bridge similar to mine that works.. so what could possibly go wrong right?

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

You need to parse what that clown really said. What did he mean by not sending people through the radiation belts? Of course we can and almost certainly did, send astronauts through them in order to reach the Moon. So the $64 dollar question becomes; " what became of them, before they died of radiation induced cancers"? Did each mission have a "ghost crew", different from the NASA poster boys? And did they even make it home on a round trip, or are they still laying around, up at Tranquility Base, and gathering Moon Dust? Did the Japanese photo mission suddenly fail over Tranquility Base, or did they see something that freaked them out"? Dead bodies in space suits laying around, up there, would do this in spades, IMO. The Japanese revere their dead, but detest, smelly, dead bodies. So they cremate everyone, and only keep their honorable ancestor's ashes in small family shrines.

IIRC, a few dedicated souls actually did volunteer for a one way trip to the Moon, early on, in the Apollo Program. If this is true, then Pres. Obama's idea of NASA doing outreach to Islamic countries, starts to make a lot more sense. He can, after all, declare Tranquility Base a "War Grave", and erect a monument to them, at Cape Kennedy. The Japanese probably have the photographic proof of this, one way or the other. The Apollo 13 Poster Boys came down directly in front of the chief recovery vessel in the Pacific. They should have been lucky to come down somewhere in that vast Pacific Basin, like Amelia Earheart, and Fred Noonan. Or maybe those two were also a "ghost crew", in a duplicate twin engine job.

My take is that once the Feds get away with one of these mega deceptions, they will keep on going back to that well. Until that day when they get their heads handed to them. So, by all means, keep up the searching!

a reply to: carpooler

Gibberish

a reply to: Zaphod58

So what is the big deal, why is this challenge not been easily defeated long ago?

Oh wait you say it WAS, but now they somehow cannot figure it out ?

This is beyond beating a dead horse, this is truly insulting trying to imagine that these engineers are this brilliant, have access to incredible levels of tech, and yet have not figured out how to EASILY pass through the Van Allen Belts, which as you say is the ONLY problem, to be solved by the entire space program of EARTH.

Why would any issue but this have EVER been solved first before this one.

This is like regressing to grade 2 physics,

Are you trying to say that they have launched countless untold hundreds of billions of dollars worth of tech without solving this issue ???

This is the first issue I would tackle, and should have been so OVER SOLVED ABOUT FIFTY YEARS AGO, but yet is totally somehow challenging today ?

Beating the dead horse, is believing that you or anyone else will ever get out of this planet alive, in the next 50 years with this level of incompetence.

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation
In this 2014 educational video from NASA about their new Orion Spacecraft, NASA Engineer Kelly Smith says the following about crossing the Vann Allan radiation Belts when travelling to the Moon and beyond:

As we get further away from Earth, we will pass through the Vann Allan Belts, an area of dangerous radiation. Radiation like this can harm the guidance systems, onboard computers, or other electronics on Orion. Naturally, we have to pass through this danger zone twice, once up and once back. But Orion has protection, shielding will be put to the test as the vehicle cuts through the waves of radiation. Sensors aboard will record radiation levels for scientists to study. We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of Space.

What? I just could not believe what I was hearing! "We must solve these challenges before we send people through the Vann Allan Belts?" - supposedly NASA sent 10-15 people through that belt 40-45 years ago in the Apollo Programs, and now in 2014 NASA is saying that this deadly radiation problem is yet to be solved?
.......

The way I read this NASA engineers statement is as follows.

"As we get further away from Earth, we will pass through the Vann Allan Belts, an area of dangerous radiation. Radiation like this can harm the guidance systems, onboard computers, or other electronics on Orion."

Agreed...the VAB does contain dangerous radiation. Dangerous to both humans via direct contact, as well as a result of a failure of any critical on-board systems. If radiation damages one of those critical systems (i.e. life support, navigation, etc...) then the lives of the crew could be in grave danger.

"Naturally, we have to pass through this danger zone twice, once up and once back. But Orion has protection, shielding will be put to the test as the vehicle cuts through the waves of radiation. Sensors aboard will record radiation levels for scientists to study."

Yes, passing through the VAB will be at a minimum of twice, at least. He states that Orion does have shielding, (but does NOT mention the type of shielding here) but is it different from the Apollo CM shielding? And, the shielding will need to be tested, as a good engineer does with any critical system before risking the lives of any humans that must depend upon it, right? Now, the acceptance of risk today, in this type of industry is at least magnitudes less than during the 1960's due to numerous factors. Only one of which is the additional knowledge of the long term affects of radiation on the human body. IMO, the most important factor is politics. With the growth of the Politically Correct (PC) movement which began in the 1980's (I've been around 50 years to see it from it's birth), and the "helicopter parenting" that tries to remove ALL risk from every child's life, to the recent zero tolerance mindset, one death is totally unacceptable and to some even injury is unacceptable. As I see it, due to the events of WWII, Korea, the start of the Cold War, etc... immediately prior to the 1960's, there was a much higher tolerance to risk than today.

So, someone developing a critical system in this climate has a much more difficult job in that area than the folks during the Apollo program. One example was the thought that a high pressure, pure 100% oxygen atmosphere in the Apollo CM was worth the risk of a fire. What they didn't expect (or know to test) was how the materials used (like Velcro) behaved in that atmosphere during a fire. The wiring was substandard running through the CM, and the sheath covering the wiring was also not tested in that atmosphere. Each of these 2 instances (the Velcro and wire sheath) became inflammable (which is much worse than flammable) and enhanced the raging fire. The fact that the CM was pressurized, and the door could NOT be opened from the inside (due to its design) meant that rescue of the men was impossible. As a result of these cascade of engineering failures, 3 men died on the pad. Only then was it redesigned almost entirely. The Apollo at the time was a completely new system too.

These type of accidents are what the engineers of today can use as a guide (an advantage) of what NOT to do, that the engineers of Apollo did not have at the time. Today, each of the systems, clothing, anything that will be in the Orion Crew Module (OCM) must be tested in real-world situations BEFORE people can be sent through these regions in the OCM. So, the challenges they face today, in a totally new design, with totally new systems, totally new software, totally new materials, with a zero tolerance for risk to the crew, must be thoroughly tested BEFORE people can be sent through these regions in the OCM.

With all this said, the meaning of the last statement you seemed to latch onto as some sort of "smoking gun" that leads to all the Apollo moon landings, and all the people involved, being hoaxed or hoaxers.

"We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of Space."

The statement simply means that (in the context of the entire paragraph) that the challenges faced (which might be unknown passing through the VAB with all new equipment) need to be solved in an unmanned fashion first, before peoples lives are put to risk. The engineers of today do stand on the shoulders of the Apollo engineers, by having a better appreciation of unanticipated interactions.

Q: Will all of them be solved on the first launch (notice I did not say flight)?
A: Hell no.

Q: Will all of them be solved on the first flight?
A: Hell no.

So, they better be DAMNED sure the entire system (from launch to landing/recovery) performs, in that region, as designed and calculated BEFORE people are sent in the OCM to the moon.

Does that help explain it a bit more for you? IMO, there is no smoking gun, but if I smell any smoke here, it has a particular aroma that I recognize from college.

Have a nice day.

originally posted by: choos

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation
Others already have done so. Several times. It didn't take.

Obviously not, perhaps they did not apply enough adhesive to make it stick?

-MM

apply your logic to normal day life.

if i was to build a bridge over a 500m high, 200m wide ravine and i based it on a wooden footbridge that other engineers has built successfully, would you drive a fully loaded 18-wheeler over it?

p.s. i havent done any test for my bridge, no stress calculations, all i know is that other people have built a bridge similar to mine that works.. so what could possibly go wrong right?

Apply YOUR logic to the official story,

We did no testing, had massively inferior tech, but yet easily surpassed what now scares the crap out of us back 50 years ago "officially".

Scaling what worked then , should be super easy calculation solved in less than a day for what they want to do now, solving the problem of the radiation is paramount, solve it SO WELL, that it becomes the BASIS of the bloody craft, not some dam afterthought.

Who are these people, that likely could be surpassed in skill by a group of high school students in solving these kinds of problems, either they are totally controlled like every other agency, held back and slowed down by ridiculous scientific stupidity, or they have been so programmed it takes them 399 times longer than a backyard mechanic would to figure out this problem on his own.

a reply to: Krakatoa

After all this time, and countless thousands of probes and literally hundreds of thousands of hours of analysis, how do you figure a perfect way of shielding a craft would not have been found out ??

This is incredible, and unforgivable really.

And we see the delays lasting on and on and on, while they promise you endlessly to keep waiting, and waiting while they drag onwards, accomplishing nothing in this area, in fact regressing.

originally posted by: ParasuvO
a reply to: Krakatoa

After all this time, and countless thousands of probes and literally hundreds of thousands of hours of analysis, how do you figure a perfect way of shielding a craft would not have been found out ??

This is incredible, and unforgivable really.

And we see the delays lasting on and on and on, while they promise you endlessly to keep waiting, and waiting while they drag onwards, accomplishing nothing in this area, in fact regressing.

Tell me, how many of these "countless thousands of probes" had actual people aboard? I know the answer, do you? With no humans aboard, you can, SHUT DOWN THE CRITICAL SYSTEMS while passing through the dangerous areas. Try that with humans aboard and you have a space coffin.