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Doubts regarding abductions

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posted on Nov, 28 2014 @ 09:50 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

Calling Travis a joker is subjective on your part.

Not a valid conclusion to be drawn by any serous study of the case.

And why it remains to this day as one of the most compelling.




posted on Nov, 28 2014 @ 09:56 AM
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originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: DJW001

Calling Travis a joker is subjective on your part.

Not a valid conclusion to be drawn by any serous study of the case.

And why it remains to this day as one of the most compelling.




It's an hypothesis that fits the facts and is more commonsensical than thinking it is evidence of extraterrestrial visitation.



posted on Nov, 28 2014 @ 10:21 AM
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a reply to: DJW001


It's an hypothesis that fits the facts and is more commonsensical than thinking it is evidence of extraterrestrial visitation.

Well of course its out of the realm of experience. They aren't from here. How can anyone really relate?

Cargo Cults



posted on Nov, 28 2014 @ 10:23 AM
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a reply to: intrptr
I agree with your offerings of abduction cases to be reviewed. I would also add Mr. Whitely Streiber who has a number of very interesting reads in his books, about about his own experiences with being abductioned as well.



posted on Nov, 28 2014 @ 10:51 AM
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originally posted by: Emma3
I would like to hear your opinions on the following (you can answer just 1 or 2, if you want to):

1 - If someone has a dream about being put back home from a (triangular) spaceship, do you think that means something or was it just a random dream?
2 - How often do abductees remember their abductions and how much of it do they remember?
3 - Do the memories feel like real memories or more like a dream type of thing?

Thank you in advance

hello emma and nice to meet you


since you asked these questions, i will take the time to answer as best as i know and what research has shown..not the research from the internet, mind you, but true research of abductees

1. that is a tough question. if, for example, you tend to watch shows on this nature, well, it might very well be your subconscious; the mind is a tricky thing
however, if i were you, i would write down as much as you remember..about the craft, the beings if you saw them, how you felt the next day..and check out what other abducees have said on various forums, see if there are similarities. another thing to do is to look at the general vicinity where the possible abduction occurred; there are different pieces of physical evidence that you can look for. also, ask yourself if this is the first time you have ever had any sort of 'dream' that could relate to abduction..'floating' out the window, for example..

2. sometimes they do, sometimes they don't..usually there is one or more 'dreams that are not dreams' that an abductee will remember in great detail. this is also another key, if the memory does not fade but in fact becomes more vivid. also, when an experiencer is aware that there is this possibility, they also tend to be more aware of what is going on around them, and so can thus remember different things that happened in their lives that are 'unusual'..

3. this can depend on how heavily the screen images are in place..i would say, tho, when a dream is particularly 'real' you best pay attention..can't tell you if it is abduction or not just based on that, but, from all the study of different types of things occurring while one is sleeping, it is best to analyze something over and over if it sticks in your craw for some reason.

i did want to ask, also..is this the only dream you have ever had like this? and have you had paranormal activity in and around your life in general?



posted on Nov, 28 2014 @ 11:13 AM
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a reply to: Emma3

I think the answer to Q1 is, yes, it was a random dream.

Q2 is more complicated as raw memories initially led the early abductees to seek treatment and advice. I can't speak for Jacobs and Hopkins, but some of John E Mack's patients arrived with memories of abduction-style phenomena. There's no known way to tell how many times someone underwent an abduction-style experience. For example, many people go through episodes of sleep paralysis and can even act out their nightmares with zero recollection. We know this for fact as sleep laboratories systematically record video and audio and the patients later sit in bemusement when they watch the footage.

This is a key crossover to abduction-style phenomena because they both involve realities that the percipient cannot differentiate from our waking reality.

Q3 varies from one person to another just like some of us remember our dreams clearly and some of us don't remember them at all.


a reply to: DJW001



He appeared on game shows. They made a movie about the incident. And he failed a lie detector test.


Under different circumstances, I think you'd agree that lie detector tests are inaccurate and unreliable in a asimilar way to regressive hypnosis. If someone pointed out that Travis Walton had passed a lie detector test, would you have pointed out their unreliability? Either we can all cite them as good evidence or none of us can. Walton has passed lie detector tests when asked about his honesty which doesn't take us any further in establishing his story.

The game shows are equally inconclusive as integrity isn't defined by how poor someone is; they are entitled to make a dollar in the same way as those of us who are skeptical.

Personally I've suspended judgement in a 'don't care' way. However there's a phone recording of one of his brothers you might find interesting. It was made while Walton was still MIA and raises doubts in the testimony imo. If you're interested, I can find it and post a link



posted on Nov, 28 2014 @ 01:12 PM
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I can't understand the double dealing with memories when it comes to alien abductions. When people want to debunk the alien angle they hit at false or implanted memories as if just the alien abduction memories are false. Let me tell all of you who do or do not believe in them. No matter what any leading brain mechanics say about recovered memories, ALL memories are recovered that's what memories are. Now memories (whoops, when in a court of law) can get you put in jail for long periods of time and can even get you executed, but when it comes to alien abductions they can't be relied on, they're false. Come on people you can't have it both ways.



posted on Nov, 28 2014 @ 01:42 PM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: intrptr

There is nothing inconsistent with the idea that it was a joke on Travis' part that got out of hand.


It was a joke, Travis had a personal UFO, he put it out there to be found so he can laugh at everyone, for 40 years. Sounds about right.

Nope.



posted on Nov, 28 2014 @ 01:45 PM
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originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: DJW001

Calling Travis a joker is subjective on your part.

Not a valid conclusion to be drawn by any serous study of the case.

And why it remains to this day as one of the most compelling.




It's an hypothesis that fits the facts and is more commonsensical than thinking it is evidence of extraterrestrial visitation.


Facts indicate that some people found a strange glowing object floating around that was able to shot a light over one of them, knocking him down.

Oh, sure, it's impossible. Therefore they must be all lying, for 40 years. That's 'commonsensical', right?



posted on Nov, 28 2014 @ 01:50 PM
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originally posted by: crayzeed
I can't understand the double dealing with memories when it comes to alien abductions. When people want to debunk the alien angle they hit at false or implanted memories as if just the alien abduction memories are false. Let me tell all of you who do or do not believe in them. No matter what any leading brain mechanics say about recovered memories, ALL memories are recovered that's what memories are. Now memories (whoops, when in a court of law) can get you put in jail for long periods of time and can even get you executed, but when it comes to alien abductions they can't be relied on, they're false. Come on people you can't have it both ways.


And you forgot when the debunkers conveniently ignore the external witnesses, abductees that cannot be found when later the memories corroborate the abduction was taking place, the multiple abduction scenarios, the close UFO sightings, the strange marks, scratches and general physiological corroborating evidence. Oh, and they usually ignore that even when some of those were submitted to 'hypnosis' sessions, BEFORE that they FELT that without any doubt something strange happened to them, with vague, but still, CONSCIENT MEMORIES on the events, and that's WHY they went to any specialist in first place.



posted on Nov, 28 2014 @ 03:43 PM
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originally posted by: gortex
Dreams are a reflection of our subconscious and as such figments of our imagination.



I have had many times dreams that represent a place or me doing something that I had no idea I would visit or do that. It also has nothing to do with planning to go somewhere and dreaming it because you planned it. It has come as completely uncalled and without knowing the place at all. Dreams may not be always 'figments of imagination', there can be a lot more to that... if used properly.



posted on Nov, 28 2014 @ 04:16 PM
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a reply to: IShotMyLastMuse

It was a mistake shooting your muse....

First, "a dream is not just a dream." Many are the people especially of the muse type that have prophetic dreams that contain insights to scientific matters, psi-type events etc. So bury that concept of yours with your muse.

Second. It was 22 years before I told a soul about my experience. Granted, some people need to unload the experience and get reassurances that they are not crazy--which is exactly what scare the crap out of a lot of experiencers. But it is crazy to claim that we all want to blabber our stories simply because it is a story without a legitimate causal factor in your opinion. I suggest that many more maintain a troubled silence about indications that they were abducted rather than want to discuss it. Offering a gross dismissal of every abduction there ever was is a bit heavy-handed don't you think? But of course, UFOs don't exist and neither does Sasquatch, right?

Third, all abduction memories are "make believe?" Upon what basis of rational reasoning to you make that assertion? Oh, if UFOs don't exist then they can't be abducting people and and any such dreams are just that dreams never of substance.

As for the threader's original post about a dream dealing with a triangle,, I doubt that triangles are ET ships They seem to be a rather late arrival on the scene and probably a result of being domestically engineered from the physics of the ET ships. So I would invalidate any dream that figured a triangle into it.

Neither do I believe the US government in any way do abductions from their triangles. I reserve the ability to change that opinion in that the long, documented history of the US government's MK-Ultra projects seem to be connected in various ways to the study of and manipulation of thousands of unsuspecting American minds.



posted on Nov, 28 2014 @ 08:03 PM
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I'm in the camp that nearly everyone who dreams of ufo's, crafts, or abductions, (in fact would say, everyone), has been in them, both because of my own experiences, and also because due to those experiences had some long term chats with some interesting people who assured me of that, most of them with military and paramilitary background, but back injuries and the likes.

Its more prevalent than not, everyone and everything is highly managed here, both sides, negatives and family trying to pull you through.

Now, odd thing about ufology is there is no one way, its not just corporal, or astral, on your end, and its not just corporal or entity on their end. There is alot of cross overs. But basically, have experienced all those sides of it, day and night, some with others sharing the sightings of the craft, and not only black choppers showing up for a time, but also exotic crafts, ie black triangle, tr3b, twice flying really low over our roof, and the one time joining up with these planes that flew around the end of the townhouse over the reservation side in pairs, and then aimlessly flew around out back, and then left as another couple was making its way at the end of the townhouse. It was interesting, because I had been chatting with some of those connected folk online that day, 2 of them, and shared that I was having in house contact.

During checkups that begin in your bed. Not without warning, most cases, was given the information that I was on that list. Most of the time didn't want to lie down even, tried staying up as long as humanly possible. But with chronic fatigue and no thryoid, I tend to have fast shut downs of my body at a certain point and konk out. So as I lay down, the covers moved, something clipped on my hand, hands on my head, messages given, and then often, lights out swiftly. The one time I jumped up, with no sleep paralysis, and took my forgotten antibiotic. My older son, then around 20, came out of the bathroom and said, there was a blue orb behind my back, about 1 meter wide, and then it vanished. He called me out for some of the sightings and for the chopper.

The night we had the dream I was already aware of memories, and being told I would taken and be in a meeting with them. That night, opened the door around 7-30- 8 30 pm, glass sliding doors, and it was directly in front of me. Pink colored grey, 4 7" tall, very narrow fine longish head, more rounded on top, large eyes, but not too much, wearing some kind of lenses, very delicate features, and a twiggy body, literally like those old bendy toys. He twisted lept and jumped and vanished. But those dreams that night, took them very seriously. Was told they don't do time, and that this day took 9 days to complete. And to write that down as I woke up, whole family was involved. Different groups involved with different sets of them. And when I ran down stairs in a state of panic, my son shared that he felt he was dropped off, the whole room spun and he knew. He was up on the computer. Well, just prior to my awakening, he and my father and brother, the first group taken were dropped off in dark navy uniforms, like mechanic and were dusting off orange soot off their uniforms, which I took meant stint in the mines maybe. Mars maybe. I was very upset and shaking my fists at the sky and demanding my family brought back. My other kids, my youngest off to the side and I just knew he had a checkup. Then my oldest son and I went aboard a craft with a see through top.

That was very interesting night.

But we've had the full mccoy and it doesnt matter who believes, we know.

Speaking up? Because very evil beings run this planet and hide the tech they've stolen, this world was upgraded, are Murder Incorporated and destroyers for the people and nature, AND THEY DON'T GET TO HAVE SECRETS. NOT ON MY WATCH! I want them all narded and arrested and hauled away.



posted on Nov, 28 2014 @ 11:47 PM
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originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Emma3

Good cases to review about this are Travis Walton (deep rabbit hole) and Betty and Barney Hill. Also check out a book title, Conmmunion by Whitley Streiber.

These and other encounters go way beyond just some dreaming, involving more than one person and more than one eyewitness.


1 - If someone has a dream about being put back home from a (triangular) spaceship, do you think that means something or was it just a random dream?

Concluding abduction by aliens is usually a matter of adding a bunch of things up that lend more credibility to the experiences overall, sometimes over a lifetime.


If I remember correctly, Betty and Barney Hill didn't "recall" being abducted until the idea was given to them for consideration. The Travis Walton case is a true mystery but even multiple people seeing "something" isn't proof of what it actually was. I'm not saying that Whitley Streiber is a liar, but he was a science fiction writer before he began writing about abductions.

On the principle that anything is possible, abductions (I'm assuming you mean by aliens) are possible. But considering that there's zero testable evidence even proving the existence of aliens, abductions by them are far from probable. This doesn't mean that some of the people who report having been "abducted" are lying. It means that there could be other explanations, some very mundane and some even stranger than alien abductions.



posted on Nov, 28 2014 @ 11:52 PM
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originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: intrptr


Travis Walton hid from the limelight and offers of money for decades. He and his fellow logging buddies tried to forget about it, not ride the gravy train.



He appeared on game shows. They made a movie about the incident. And he failed a lie detector test.

He appeared on "Moment of Truth" 34 years after the incident. If he was trying to get notoriety why wait that long?Travis wasn't involved in the movie. Except for one incomplete and invalid result, the other members of his crew all passed lie detector tests while Travis was still missing. Travis was missing for five days and his buddies were being blamed for it by authorities. So they took lie detector tests…

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Travis test 34 years later on a game show valid?


If Travis Walton's friends did pass the lie detector test that does suggest that something they couldn't explain happened. But it was Travis, who failed the lie detector test, who claimed that he was abducted by aliens. "Something they couldn't explain" is far from proving alien abduction. I am basing this on my memory that his friends never claimed to have seen any "aliens".



posted on Nov, 29 2014 @ 12:25 AM
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a reply to: Emma3

I saw some recent accounts on destination america.

One involved two twins(Debbie and Audrey) , interesting there is a third party involved who also claims to be abducted and he recognizes these twins years later as being on board the ship he was.
www.destinationamerica.com...

other involved Bret Oldham, claims he and his girlfriend were abducted which led to their separation. Apparently they also took their child.
www.destinationamerica.com...
apmagazine.info...'

Both cases involve more than one person who can corroborate the story. If you look into the Bret story, the corroboration is a stronger imo. Interesting stuff.

edit on 29-11-2014 by 111DPKING111 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2014 @ 12:37 AM
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originally posted by: 111DPKING111
a reply to: Emma3

I saw some recent accounts on destination america.

One involved two twins(Debbie and Audrey) , interesting there is a third party involved who also claims to be abducted and he recognizes these twins years later as being on board the ship he was.
www.destinationamerica.com...

other involved Bret Oldham, claims he and his girlfriend were abducted which led to their separation. Apparently they also took their child.
www.destinationamerica.com...
apmagazine.info...'

Both cases involve more than one person who can corroborate the story. If you look into the Bret story, the corroboration is a stronger imo. Interesting stuff.


Alas, claims mean nothing until they can be proved via testable evidence. Courtrooms are filled with people testifying under oath contradicting other people who are testifying under oath. At this point, there isn't an iota of testable evidence proving that aliens exist, that they pilot craft, and that they abduct people. These stories are extremely similar to ancient stories about fairies abducting humans, doing things to them, and returning them. Only the technology in the stories has changed. Do you believe that fairies abduct people or would you require testable evidence proving it before you would accept it as fact?



posted on Nov, 29 2014 @ 01:15 AM
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originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: Emma3

If someone has a dream in which they are a Roman Emperor does that mean past lives are real?
Dreams are a reflection of our subconscious and as such figments of our imagination.

I believe there are several reasons why people may report that they've been abducted by Aliens but I see no evidence that Aliens are responsible for any abductions.


Yeah but how often do people dream of being returned from a spaceship? I mean if Betty and Barney hill didn't happen, they were wide awake and the UFO landed, the aliens got out and stood in a line to make a road block. Or when we have things like Travis Walton happen, he was in a group of people and still got abducted.

The fact is that if you have a small dream like a flash of a craft, I would recommend getting hypnosis done because the aliens don't have to make anything known if they don't want it to be known. Some people have 0% of a conscious memory of being abducted.

I had many many dreams of aliens, greys, craft. I would have dreams of the UFOs making unbelievable designs of art in the sky. I had a dream of a large robust reptilian with a astronaut type mask on, he looked more like an intelligent conscious upright dinosaur. In all of these many UFO dreams, I was terrified. I had a dream that 4 aliens brought someone to me. I met this person, then I was extremely impressed to learn about the true existence of those who are at least 100 times greater than us.



posted on Nov, 29 2014 @ 03:23 AM
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Something occurred to me just as I was painting the spare bedroom...

Missing time.

It's been reported in many "awake" abductions,if not all,which makes it hard for me to dismiss it all as rubbish.



posted on Nov, 29 2014 @ 05:55 AM
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a reply to: Tangerine


This doesn't mean that some of the people who report having been "abducted" are lying. It means that there could be other explanations, some very mundane and some even stranger than alien abductions.

Roger that.

I've had encounters of the spirit kind. The one "craft" I saw was not a dream or a spirit. Two totally different things.



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