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Question to ANYONE on the Ferguson Protesters Side...And some facts!!

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posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 10:33 PM
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originally posted by: truthseeker84
Did Michael Brown really assault the officer?

I mean, I see his injury on his face and neck, I'm just wondering if it really went down.

Because from all the media frenzy, they seem to always depict it as M. Brown as an innocent kid who threw his hands up in the air but got murdered in cold blood.

But clearly, as the evidence rolls out, that's not entirely the case.

So if the officer was assault, shot back in retaliation, then... why all the riots?


I FORTUNATELY didn't follow this case and the media hype since I am now living in Europe and not so much interested in US insanity any more.

However, after a little reading it seemed to me that those two guys

* did indeed rob the store and stole cigarillos
* were identified later by the cops running down the streets
* were apprehended but attempted either to flee or even struggled with the cop. Hold on, yes I heard the guy was actually trying to grab the cop's gun

I have no reason to believe or to think (based on what I read) that the two thugs were apprehended and immediately complied (eg. hands up, down etc.) as I and most other people would do if they get apprehended by cops.

So what are they rioting for? Two criminals who robbed a store were approached by police, the criminals tried to flee, or fight with the cop etc....one of them was shot as a logical, very predictable result.

Innocent my a$$...they just robbed a store...




posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 10:44 PM
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a reply to: hellobruce

None actually. Your attitude is the problem. Its widely known by us on the group that people have been planeted in crowds to start violence and riots. We have caught white officers undercover numerous times. You seem pretty ignorant by the way so I ignore you from now on



posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 10:44 PM
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a reply to: spacedog1973

Only post that has made any sense so far.


This isn't about what Race, that's just an argument beset on you to keep you from being angry at your masters.

The fact there's a disproportionate amount of Black, Hispanic and "2 races or more" in unemployment contributes to the crime numbers more than their actual race..

Statistics we should be comparing are:
"legitimately well-off minorities" crimes committed vs "legitimately well-off whites" crimes committed : To see when either "race/s" is in a good/ample environmental and economical position we seem to live quite harmoniously and crime free ..

Minorities unemployed vs Whites unemployed ..etc etc.. It's sad to see from an outside point of view, how caught up with Race the US has become. I know it's exactly what TPTB wanted but, come on guys...Be angry at the Class system that's put upon you to blind you from the fact there's 1 person in a 100 that basically owns the rest. If a village of 100 had one ultra mega trillionaire, people would be pissed if there was anyone going without right? SO there's your problem. Complain about the real things. Humans are humans, we're all different and the same at the same time. Deal with it.

Your MSM doesn't help at all, I compared the footage from NBC/CNN with , RT, and there was weirdly no white people protesting on the US news, just blacks...RT had a much different picture, the whole community together as one, there was certainly no racial discrimination going on when the cops were dishing out Tear Gas



posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 10:48 PM
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For me, the issue isn't race, so your questions here are pretty moot.

My issue is the continued excessive use of force by police, regardless of race, because police brutality is the issue for me here. And police brutality is committed across the spectrum of race, age, and gender.

Michael Brown's race does not even come into my concerns. I've heard people use the straw man argument that white people don't riot when the roles are reversed. But that's probably because more white people tend to blindly trust authority and accept actions from authorities that they wouldn't from others.

The question for me was not that Wilson shot Brown because he was black, but the question being of whether or not Wilson was justified in shooting him in the first place. And so far, the evidence presented has been questionable and mixed, and the investigation was pretty shoddy.



posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 10:51 PM
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a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf




and the investigation was pretty shoddy.


How so? Links?



posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 11:15 PM
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originally posted by: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
For me, the issue isn't race, so your questions here are pretty moot.

My issue is the continued excessive use of force by police, regardless of race, because police brutality is the issue for me here. And police brutality is committed across the spectrum of race, age, and gender.

Michael Brown's race does not even come into my concerns. I've heard people use the straw man argument that white people don't riot when the roles are reversed. But that's probably because more white people tend to blindly trust authority and accept actions from authorities that they wouldn't from others.

The question for me was not that Wilson shot Brown because he was black, but the question being of whether or not Wilson was justified in shooting him in the first place. And so far, the evidence presented has been questionable and mixed, and the investigation was pretty shoddy.


As a 46 year old white woman, I TOTALLY agree. To me this is about our out of control military police state and how it has become a war with American citizens as the enemy. It's just worse for black people, I think. But to me it's a bigger issue involving the abuse of power. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.



posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 11:20 PM
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a reply to: thesmokingman

I wasn't going to reply until I saw you suggest that shooting a 70 year old man reaching for his cane was a reasonable mistake.

You've been living in Babylon too long brother. Since when is it reasonable to have trigger-happy officers scared like fairies and willing to shoot anything that remotely looks dangerous? Even soldiers are ordered not to shoot unless shot at. Why are cops allowed to shoot first, ask questions later on ORDINARY CITIZENS?

Ooo, he cried. How sad. That poor officer.

Pfft. F#k him.

Whatever. Good luck justifying your own insensitive ignorance towards the value of human life in the future. But personally, I've heard enough of this ridiculous keyboard-warrior rhetoric, and I have no interest in hearing more if it from you. Have a nice life (and be grateful for it - because apparently it's not worth much in the eyes of the law).



posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 11:50 PM
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a reply to: Domo1

Link

For starters.



posted on Nov, 27 2014 @ 12:18 AM
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originally posted by: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
a reply to: Domo1

Link

For starters.



Wow, if those are the starters I can only imagine the finishers!!



posted on Nov, 27 2014 @ 12:25 AM
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a reply to: thesmokingman

ah so you've personally read the minds of every single officer who have ever pulled over a black person in a car and can conclusively say and support that it's a myth?

Again, I am not saying Brown was innocent/guilty of attack...I wasn't there...but don't go quoting a 'myth' as fact when you know darn well you are NOT in the minds of officers when they pull anyone over. Racism, even covert racism exist all over this country and yes I mean racism towards anyone...towards black, white, Hispanic whatever but can you seriously say that you know FOR A FACT that it's a myth?

Back to point...this entire thing is ridiculous on all sides

On one hand, looting, robbing, burning and violence is NOT going to make this cause better

BUT...peaceful protest doesn't ever seem to get anywhere anymore and it irritates me that the rest of the country cannot understand the purposes behind this ((again...it's a damn crappy way to make a point)) but there IS a reason. It's so irritating that we think just because we've offered 'minorities' a right to vote and equality that racism just magically disappeared, Poof! gone!

It doesn't work that way. It still exists and it is beyond foolish to think police are just somehow immune to prejudice...no group is immune to prejudice. Period

You can certainly find members of a group who are and I can only pray we follow that example but it doesn't exist. We are not in a racism-free world no matter how some like to pretend we are

Either way...I would just like to see violence stop...period. I don't care who are how something is done...I just want it to end



posted on Nov, 27 2014 @ 12:44 AM
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It’s all good:
The police state
The gangster state
The gangsta rap state
The racist state
The crime state
the conspiracy state

The political state where people ONLY see their perspective and not others.

The people crying racism are correct and the people crying that black people should also get as angry about black crime in the hood as they do at racist crimes are also right

Again this is a prime indication of the elephant in the dark syndrome where we all have parts of the truth

Every perspective has some of the truth but not all of the truth because all of the truth exists in ALL perspectives somewhat.

When you try to make a part of the whole truth exclusive then you are a reductionist: that is someone who tries to reduce reality to a one dimensional fact:

Saying its all the black hoods problem or saying its all racism or saying its all the police state exclusive to other factors is ignorance and will never get us nowhere but to constant division

Maybe that’s what we really want.

edit on 27-11-2014 by Willtell because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2014 @ 12:54 AM
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We need to combat racism

We need to fight crime on the hood

We need to lesson the police state in this country.

We need to massively improve education in the citizens and the police

This problem has to dealt with holistically and integrally… that is from ALL angles and perspectives not just one.


And regarding the op and the FBI (UCR) Uniform Crime Reports
According to AlJazeera:



The FBI does not release annual data on how many Americans are killed by law enforcement officers — information that activists who mobilized after the Ferguson shooting in August have demanded of the Obama administration.
Although Al Jazeera identified 12 incidents of deadly police force over the span of seven days, the number of actual incidents may be higher. Killed By Police, a Facebook page that posts links to news reports of homicides by law enforcement, found 23 incidents during the same timeframe.
But even that number seems low, says D. Brian Burghart, editor of Reno News & Review, who founded Fatal Encounters, a project compiling comprehensive and searchable national data of people killed by law enforcement officials.
The Uniform Crime Reports (UCR), official national crime data complied annually by the FBI, indicates that there were 461 total deaths at the hands of law enforcement in 2013, the most recently published year. But Burghart told Al Jazeera that after scanning local government agencies and media reports the number of police-related fatalities was “closer to about 1,400 a year,” with at least 9,000 from 2000 to 2014.
america.aljazeera.com...

Now I'm not disputing the op just adding to it in order to get a greater perspective on the situation




Over 18,000 law enforcement agencies — including city, county, state and federal law enforcement departments — voluntarily participate in sharing crime data with the FBI. However, only 750 of those agencies contribute to UCR’s data on law enforcement-related incidents, leaving a gap in the fatalities reported by UCR versus the actual number of incidents.

edit on 27-11-2014 by Willtell because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2014 @ 01:57 AM
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originally posted by: Willtell
Now I'm not disputing the op just adding to it in order to get a greater perspective on the situation


Actually, I think you are to some degree disputing the so called stats in the op and rightfully so. While searching for verification on those numbers in this thread opening I came across multiple sites such as mother Jones, and Huff Post to name a few who also were looking for some numbers as well.

Because of this whole Ferguson fiasco more than one reporter went looking for that data and they all came back showing that the data isn't even there to be found. At least not in any complete way. Just fragmented and estimated numbers from a small number of total Law Enforcement agencies. The fact is, what is there is all voluntary and incomplete. Nobody in Law Enforcement wants those stats to be correct or available because if they were people would see what a damn disgrace it is and how corrupt the whole system really is.

The op however tries to play this off with his source as if the data is reliable, which it's clearly not and that site used is obviously a very Cop Friendly website. When you follow the source links that are in the site they just refer to other pages on the very same website. Nothing like some self referencing links to try and cover up that your lying.

Personally I'm glad you mentioned it and I don't think you should avoid exposing it either.



posted on Nov, 27 2014 @ 02:28 AM
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a reply to: mOjOm

See that is my biggest issue though. I cannot tell whether or not I side with Brown or Wilson because no matter where you look, either side is at play. Some websites are clearly pro-conservative or pro-cop and some websites are clearly pro-Brown or anti-cop

Or race-baiting/racist in some way

So who is trusted?



posted on Nov, 27 2014 @ 02:52 AM
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a reply to: KyoZero

Well this last post isn't dealing with the Wilson/Brown issue exactly. It's more about how law enforcement isn't even keeping track of the data dealing with the number of Officer Shootings are happening. Not on a national level or even on a local level beyond a small number of volunteer sources.

I find this to be pretty amazing since we are currently tracking every phone call, email, text message, etc. that happens in and out of this nation yet somehow the number of actual citizens are being killed, either lawfully or unlawfully isn't being counted.

This doesn't seem to raise any red flags for anyone???



posted on Nov, 27 2014 @ 02:59 AM
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a reply to: mOjOm

I completely agree. They know how many times and for how long each time I have called my wife...but we don't know this?

That's just terrific

I wonder how ATS feels about chest cameras



posted on Nov, 27 2014 @ 03:10 AM
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a reply to: KyoZero

Perhaps this could be a reason why they choose not to log in such data???


The FBI reports that in 2011, cops in America killed 404 suspects in acts of "justifiable homicide." Astonishingly, though, as FiveThirtyEight reports, this number likely doesn't include every civilian fatality that year since it relies on voluntary reporting and doesn't include police homicides that aren't justifiable.

Still, 404 is a large number. By comparison,
just six people were killed by police in Australia over the same period.
Police in England and Wales killed only two people,
and German police killed six.

Last year, police in England did not record a single shooting fatality,
with officers across the country only firing weapons on three occasions.

edit on 27-11-2014 by mOjOm because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2014 @ 03:25 AM
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a reply to: thesmokingman

Black children or those who are barely legal are being slaughtered in the states by police at a disproportionately higher rate .....

Where are those stats...? It changes the angle slightly, yeah?

Tamir Rice shooting: Officer shot 12-year-old boy within 2 seconds on Nov.22, 2014

www.cbc.ca...

I cannot find the link to the seven year old little girl who was shot by swat in Philadelphia just recently as well due to showing up at the wrong address.. But when I do, I will be back to post it.

Again, look at the stats for people of colour who are underage minors being slaughtered

The issue is people are being killed by police of all backgrounds, but since the OP is about white vs. black unfair portrayals, I would like to see comparisons of how many white children 18 and under were killed by police in the states in the last year.

I will be back with that stat as well....

Heads up..


edit on 27-11-2014 by Involutionist because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2014 @ 05:53 AM
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a reply to: thesmokingman

I would promote equality. You try living in a ghetto (which are all predominately black, no?) with no hope. I am white, if that makes a difference. I see these ghettos you have in your country and I am not suprised that black people are demonised as gangsters, thugs and violent reprobates with no future. If you had to fight for your very existance, I wonder how you would fare? Just playing devils advocate here. Everyone has choices in life. Just some are like choosing between the frying pan and the fire. Some of us don't have a good choice to make, for whatever reason. I'm not saying this rioting and looting is right, far from it. Infact, the people looting will have nothign to do with michale browns friends or family. They are opportunists that use the cover or protesters to do as they please. Also, how can you be sure that some of those "protestors" aren't actually govrnment agitators? if I was in power, I would certainly send people in there to rile # up to make them look like violent thugs with no agenda. Would do the system a whole lot of goof deflecting the attention like that.



posted on Nov, 27 2014 @ 05:58 AM
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a reply to: KyoZero

I am on the side of wanting the truth. I don't think the verdict reflects the true version of events. It's not often a PD will hang one of its officers out to dry. If they did leave wilson to hang then it would have opened the floodgates for many other death by cop cases, potentially costing millions and some very red faces. Thats my two pence, anyways. Wilson was always going to be found not guilty, then made to resign and they bury it.




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