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What Anti-Americanism Can Learn From The Failure Of Anti-Communism

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posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 10:36 AM
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In 1946, Deputy Chief of Mission at the United States Embassy in Moscow George Kennan sent a long telegram to the Secretary of State, summarizing what he believed to be the agenda of the Soviet Union and the steps he thought the United States needed to take in response. Soviet propaganda made it seem that the USSR wanted to spread Communist revolution throughout the world. In response, Kennan urged the United States to adopt a policy of "containment," blocking the spread of Soviet influence by supporting governments that had strong anti-Communist views.

Because anti-Communism was the chief characteristic that Washington looked for in an ally, it made alliances with countries that did not share the same values of freedom and democracy that the United States prides itself on. It supported the idiotic (and double dealing) Shah of Iran, tolerated countless military juntas in Pakistan and Latin America, and got itself bogged down in a civil war in Southeast Asia that still reflects badly on three consecutive American presidents.

Although the Soviet Union eventually collapsed under the weight of its bureaucratic inertia, the United States' questionable alliances and military interventions did nothing to speed that fall. Instead, these poor choices return to haunt the United States at every turn. How could the American government be so blind?

The lesson for the proponents of Anti-Americanism? Be careful who you support and ally yourself with. Does an anti-American stand justify murdering your own people, as Assad does? Does anti-Americanism excuse the sexism of Iran? Does political corruption and croneyism not matter so long as Russia stands against America?

Anti-Communism failed because it posited a negative. All that mattered was that someone or something not be "Communist." It did not posit what it was for. It was not for liberty or for democracy; it was just against "Communism." Anti-Americanism falls into the same trap; instead of being "Anti-American," ask yourself what you are for.




posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 10:47 AM
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Do you suppose the US will ever be free from 'blowback' from this ongoing policy? Is a new core foreign policy even possible for the US?

Thank you for the history lesson ... and reminder.



posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 10:50 AM
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a reply to: DJW001


The lesson for the proponents of Anti-Americanism? Be careful who you support and ally yourself with.

Is that the "real" message here?

How about don't be too quick to label people as anti or pro anything? Thats a good start to promoting peace. Instead of highlighting differences.

Ideals are dangerous, promoting them and classifying people as for or against is how witch hunts and wars start. Once you classify them and us, the "better thans" and "Oh yahs?" come out and start conflicts.



posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 10:58 AM
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a reply to: intrptr


Thats a reasonable solution.

Unfortunately we live in a microwave society with instant burritos. People want to slap on a label and stick things in a category and move on. Not sure how we can change that kind of thinking.



posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 11:01 AM
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a reply to: DJW001



- instead of being "Anti-American," ask yourself what you are for.


You don`t need to be Anti-American to condemn its foreign policy, a lot of American culture things don`t have to be rejected because of that.

Most who condemn America its foreign policy are pro the victims who are subjected by it.



posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 11:04 AM
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a reply to: FyreByrd


Do you suppose the US will ever be free from 'blowback' from this ongoing policy? Is a new core foreign policy even possible for the US?


No. What is done is done. Because the United States chooses new leadership roughly every six years, there has seldom been consistent long term policy. Anti-Communism was unusual in that both major parties subscribed to it.



posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 11:07 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien


Most who condemn America its foreign policy are pro the victims who are subjected by it.


It is one thing to object to American policy, it is another to endorse the same policy when practiced by another country. If the same policy is good for Russia, China or Iran but bad for the United States,it is not the policy that is offensive, it is the country implementing it.



posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 11:09 AM
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a reply to: intrptr


Is that the "real" message here?


I have been very explicit. Ask yourself whether you are supporting a cause or simply directing your anger towards a convenient object. (I don't mean you, personally, of course.)



posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 11:09 AM
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a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71


Unfortunately we live in a microwave society with instant burritos. People want to slap on a label and stick things in a category and move on. Not sure how we can change that kind of thinking.

One candle at a time…



posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 11:10 AM
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Does an anti-American stand justify murdering your own people, as Assad does? Does anti-Americanism excuse the sexism of Iran? Does political corruption and croneyism not matter so long as Russia stands against America?


What about Saudi Arabia's sexism?
What about Israel's murdering of the people it occupies?


It's all too easy to be anti-Russian because they ally themselves with Iran & Syria...

The fact is America has some questionable allies as well...

The anti-American stance hasn't come out of nowhere...
Look at the "liberation" of Iraq...
Look at the drone policy that kills 28 civilians for every terrorist...


& I'm far from anti-American...
But it's not hard to understand why some people might be.

I'm not pro-Russian either...
But again due to disenfranchised feelings it's not hard to see why some might be.



I think both Governments are questionable...

But don't be naive... Not you OP, I've seen you question both as well...
That's mainly for the pro/anti bandwagons.



posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 11:17 AM
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So are people starting to wake up to the fact that America, Americans, American government etc are in fact the bad guys after all?
edit on 26-11-2014 by Dabrazzo because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 11:20 AM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs


What about Saudi Arabia's sexism?
What about Israel's murdering of the people it occupies?


Exactly. Saudi Arabia was a brutal monarchy for the entirety of the twentieth century, and has not improved much since. Israel has lost all of the moral high ground it once enjoyed.



It's all too easy to be anti-Russian because they ally themselves with Iran & Syria...


Russia is free to sell weapons to whomever they want. The problem is they have have invaded the Ukraine, an offense as egregious as America's invasion of Iraq.


The fact is America has some questionable allies as well...


And it was the blinkered policy of Anti-Communism that allowed us to make those alliances.


The anti-American stance hasn't come out of nowhere...
Look at the "liberation" of Iraq...
Look at the drone policy that kills 28 civilians for every terrorist...


But those natural feelings of anger are being actively exploited by regimes that are no better, and in most cases, much worse (pound for pound) than the United States!



& I'm far from anti-American...
But it's not hard to understand why some people might be.


I agree.


I'm not pro-Russian either...
But again due to disenfranchised feelings it's not hard to see why some might be.

I think both Governments are questionable...

But don't be naive... Not you OP, I've seen you question both as well...
That's mainly for the pro/anti bandwagons.


One must have one's eyes open and not let the kettle's accusations make you think that only the pot is black.



posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 11:21 AM
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originally posted by: Dabrazzo
So are people starting to wake up to the fact that America, Americans, American government etc are in fact the bad guys after all?


Is that what you got out of it? " Amerika bad?"



posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 11:39 AM
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a reply to: DJW001


I have been very explicit. Ask yourself whether you are supporting a cause or simply directing your anger towards a convenient object

Not objects, ideals like nationalism, patriotism and "Democracy". They are always used to cover for the intentions on the part of the powerful.

Hiding behind noble concepts in order to wage their brand of domination and greed. It all begins with flag waving, or more appropriately, with flag worship. Indoctrinating kids from an early age to revere symbols or ideals and attack anyone who "goes against them".

You do see through that veil, don't you?

In hyperbole how do we justify offensive war? By calling it defensive? By "labeling" like the "department of defense"?



posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 12:44 PM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: FyreByrd


Do you suppose the US will ever be free from 'blowback' from this ongoing policy? Is a new core foreign policy even possible for the US?


No. What is done is done. Because the United States chooses new leadership roughly every six years, there has seldom been consistent long term policy. Anti-Communism was unusual in that both major parties subscribed to it.


Too true - it makes me ashamed in so many ways. It even tarnished the good the US has done - The Marshall Plan which helped the world rebuild was motivated by 'containment' of the 'communist threat' that was very real in the aftermath of WWII.

I struggle with these questions - I can't condone it but at the same time don't know of an alternative. What I do see is that the actions being taken in the name of 'containment' are becoming more and more reactionary rather then pro-actionary and that is truly disturbing.

I've yet to think about 'others' (I suspect the root problem) 'containment' of the US but do suspect we will eventually 'contain' ourselves.



posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 02:27 PM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien


Most who condemn America its foreign policy are pro the victims who are subjected by it.


It is one thing to object to American policy, it is another to endorse the same policy when practiced by another country. If the same policy is good for Russia, China or Iran but bad for the United States,it is not the policy that is offensive, it is the country implementing it.


It`s just your mind who makes everything which isn`t showing Russia in a bad light thinking it`s anti-American or pro-Russian. If American media was telling FSB was behind the Ferguson riots you would also believe it right away, because that`s what you want to believe.

The West has been really busy the last two decades with millions of victims as a result, so the West its actions are getting the most attention, nothing conspiratorial about it, just plain logic.



posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 02:45 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlienFunny... you're the one who believes CIA is behind the riots in Kyiv. Is that because it's what you want to believe? As for Ferguson, of course I understand that the rioting is mostly out of long standing frustration... just like the frustration on the Maidan.



posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 02:45 PM
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Double post. *#^@ed tablet.


edit on 26-11-2014 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 05:19 PM
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a reply to: DJW001

And look what has happened...

Ukrainians storming Polish border on a daily basis to see if they can barter/sell/or find some work.



posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 05:54 PM
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a reply to: DJW001


originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: Dabrazzo
So are people starting to wake up to the fact that America, Americans, American government etc are in fact the bad guys after all?


Is that what you got out of it? " Amerika bad?"


Pretty much, what else is there to take out of it exactly?



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