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Truth that is Hidden is a Lie - Truth that is Seen Reveals the Lie

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posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 10:26 PM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Gnostic truth is not subjective whatsoever. It is a state of 'being in knowledge' either you know it or not.


“Gnostic truth is not subjective whatsoever”…hmmm…

But one would have to ask the question…how do the mechanics of coming into a knowing/knowledge, work…?

Take intuition for example. Intuition is defined as what one feels to be true, and yet when you check the definition of the word subjective, it’s defined as being that which is influenced by personal feelings.

My point being that sometimes you can intuitively know that something is true, without knowing why it’s true, which at that stage, means it remains a subjective truth. Of course not all of these subjective truths will be true in all cases, but sometimes they might be.

A Gnostic can know a truth, by knowing why it’s true i.e. has an understanding, which can generally be objectively reasoned out etc…but an intuitive person could reach the same truth, but not know (completely) why it’s true…Both hold the same truth, but the mechanics are different…


- JC




posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 10:53 PM
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originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing



Originally posted by veteranhumanbeing
Gnostic truth is not subjective whatsoever. It is a state of 'being in knowledge' either you know it or not.



Joecroft: “Gnostic truth is not subjective whatsoever”…hmmm…

But one would have to ask the question…how do the mechanics of coming into a knowing/knowledge, work…?

Take intuition for example. Intuition is defined as what one feels to be true, and yet when you check the definition of the word subjective, it’s defined as being that which is influenced by personal feelings.

The mechanics of how spirit/soul understands the 'all that is (the binding force or its connection to a higher being)"; is by experiencing a revelation. Its entirely personal to the individual; for some its reading the Bible, for others its by NOT reading the Bible, are you asking me for my experience (will be different than yours or any other individuated soul aspect of a God particle). Intuition is based upon what will not get you killed in that instant of purity OR PRESENT STATE OF BEING, as in you are living in the NOW (not in the instance of remembering the past or anticipating the future). The mind/ego is at fault in this debacle, nothing to do with the eternal aspect of the soul.


Joecroft: My point being that sometimes you can intuitively know that something is true, without knowing why it’s true, which at that stage, means it remains a subjective truth. Of course not all of these subjective truths will be true in all cases, but sometimes they might be.


Subjective? you question your higher self; (INTUITION. self/free will/God as your creator Aspect gave you: it knows better than you and apparently is confusing or ill defined.


Joecroft: A Gnostic can know a truth, by knowing why it’s true i.e. has an understanding, which can generally be objectively reasoned out etc…but an intuitive person could reach the same truth, but not know (completely) why it’s true…Both hold the same truth, but the mechanics are different.


A Gnostic knows THE TRUTH not sure what an 'intuitive' does, (likewise probably an empath); and needs no objective reasoning to defend or blind it. All persons can reach this pinnacle of ultimate knowledge and it is always the same understanding, this is where being in Gnosis and the other: as a believer in religious Dogma or false history part ways (not to say seeking by way of a FIRST path) is a bad thing, it is just the first rung on a ladder of at least 100 more discoveries.




edit on 26-11-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2014 @ 10:17 AM
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Sorry but the reason for the long post is because you can write a book on this subject.

As sad as this subject needs to be simple for people to understand it is not easy to make simple. But as happy as I am to know that there was an organized attempt and action to follow the Teachings of Christ.

These are the outlets from which the higher ups lie to us about. Each place on the scale is being told to cover up. The higher you go it is being told to the ones below them to lie: media, history, religion, archaeology, which encompasses all of the physical material world. So the whole world is a lie.

The ancient historians give us the answer thankfully. The Essenes were the actual Christians before Christian became a word.

Now when it comes to the Teachings of Christ, I am happy to know that it happened, but I am said to know that immediately after, the powers of the day who had the capability to write on scrolls in many different languages completely abused the Teachings of Christ. They are the Greeks and Romans. The Romans understood how much power the Greeks had after their ages of wisdom and knowledge. The Greeks went underground but had a huge influence in reshaping the Teachings, and creating a story around it. (Now Paul was instrumental in creating the story on the Roman side, that is why you will hear researchers saying that is it like two stories coming together. Let Us remember that this was after the movement was eliminated that the book was put together.)

The powers of the day sent out books of lies, even claiming to witness Christ! This is Exactly like the UFO disinformation that our generation saw. They were putting out disinformation of the day.

All disinformation has a root of truth. They called it Gnostic, meaning knowledge, but that is a Greek word! Everybody is their right mind stays away from it because it is hearsay but the Greeks were far advanced in their thinking, they knew that only a select few would gain the "knowledge" to understand the disinformation part. I myself did not understand it until I understood what they do in air force counter intelligence.

They give an example now.

In the Gnostic book of Judas it is written:


They [said, “We have seen] a great [house with a large] altar [in it, and] twelve men—they are the priests, we would say—and a name; and a crowd of people is waiting at that altar, [until] the priests [… and receive] the offerings. [But] we kept waiting.”


From studying the truth, which is the Essenes (Essene is not an English word and does not mean essence), we learn that the 12 disciples were not disciples but were priests. At the top of the Essene powers was the head of 12 priests. This turned into 13 priests (in my opinion the 13th priest was Christ, and they made it known '13' instead of the number '12' which had been used in religion for 1,000s of years before that and was still prominent in that day). In the book of Judas, when he starts talking about the 13th priest as related to his story of interpretation of dreams (which is another pagan thing) is when the hearsay really starts, then there is literal blasphemy, so we can see that they were jealous of the Essene movement and did not want it to prevail as they were scared it would be too powerful, so they took control of it and that is why the majority is Roman Catholic today.

That is one example. The Essenes were actually Nazarenes and that is not my knowledge but from a historian. The name Essene was giving to them to describe them as holy (in that day people would often give names to things and people which describe them). Hence Mary of Magdalene, Jesus of Nazareth. But don't use Jesus the common name because that is a GREEK name, the same people who were involved with the Romans in putting out that hearsay. Rarely anyone knows that his name is Joshua. How are you going to invoke a spirit by calling them by the wrong name? When you worship a spirit do you think you are not invoking it?

Now let me make a couple things clear: The Teachings of Christ.

There is no need for this virgin birth, or 3 day resurrection, which is pagan. Let me tell you why. Because in The Teachings of Christ, it is made Very Clear that the soul is going to be alive in the next realm. It was thoroughly taught that the Teachings were for the afterlife.



posted on Nov, 27 2014 @ 07:16 PM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
The mechanics of how spirit/soul understands the 'all that is (the binding force or its connection to a higher being)"; is by experiencing a revelation.
Its entirely personal to the individual;


Yes, this is true, although the mechanics probably go a little deeper than that…but it will suffice for now, and I do agree with it etc…but…

You say “by experiencing a revelation”… does that involve feelings?…because if it does, then we’re back to subjective…at least in part anyway….

And that last part about being “entirely personal” kind of suggests feelings coming into play…and we both know where that leads us lol




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
for some its reading the Bible, for others its by NOT reading the Bible, are you asking me for my experience (will be different than yours or any other individuated soul aspect of a God particle).


Yeah, absolutely…each individuals journey will always be different, even if only slightly…




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Intuition is based upon what will not get you killed in that instant of purity OR PRESENT STATE OF BEING, as in you are living in the NOW (not in the instance of remembering the past or anticipating the future). The mind/ego is at fault in this debacle, nothing to do with the eternal aspect of the soul.


Intuition is just having a gut feeling that something is right or wrong, and yeah, it could prevent you from being killed/harming yourself, or just sensing that your about to get a phone call, or that your cat is sick, or that you’re going to win the lottery this week etc…




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Subjective? you question your higher self; (INTUITION. self/free will/God as your creator Aspect gave you: it knows better than you and apparently is confusing or ill defined.


Yeah subjective!!! Meaning the use of personal feelings and opinions being used, to help forms one views/beleifs…

Intuitive = Feelings…

Feelings = Subjective




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
A Gnostic knows THE TRUTH not sure what an 'intuitive' does,




Take an intuitive guess lol

An intuitive person feels what is true, without conscious reasoning (although some degree of reasoning will take place) And anything which uses feelings to help form view/beliefs, is defined/classified as being subjective!




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
A Gnostic knows THE TRUTH not sure what an 'intuitive' does, (likewise probably an empath); and needs no objective reasoning to defend or blind it.



The objective reasoning is present, because the Gnostic understands it and knows why it’s true etc…The objective reasoning is there to show the understanding behind it,…it’s not used to blind, it’s used to light the way…

Take Einstein for example, and his theory of relativity. Prior to Einstein explaining it in great scientific and mathematical detail, know one else understood how it worked.

Einstein was the first to person completely understand it and articulate it to others. In a sense, he achieved Knowledge/Gnosis, regarding the nature of time…




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
All persons can reach this pinnacle of ultimate knowledge and it is always the same understanding, this is where being in Gnosis and the other: as a believer in religious Dogma or false history part ways (not to say seeking by way of a FIRST path) is a bad thing, it is just the first rung on a ladder of at least 100 more discoveries.


I agree, being in Gnosis is by far the better option between the two, I wouldn’t suggest otherwise…

But remember, the intuitive is never completely riding blind here, he/she will have some degree of knowledge, which combined with their intuitiveness, will lead them to believe in a particular truth. The only difference between the two, is that a Gnostics knowledge is complete, whereby he/she knows why and how, a thing works. The intuitive just doesn’t completely understand it, but they believe it to be true, all the same…

Just think about the mechanics of how one comes into knowledge on a particular topic or subject, assuming that it is something not to obvious and well known etc…

You don’t just jump right into having knowledge of it, do you…you have to build it up in stages, by gathering sources of information and then trying to get them to fit together in a coherent way, through contemplation, which hopefully will lead to some form of understanding and clarity. Along the journey you may even have to make some intuitive leaps, to help fill in some gaps in your knowledge etc…And then eventually, further down the line, you may at some point, achieve the desired Gnosis…

- JC



posted on Nov, 27 2014 @ 09:16 PM
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originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing


Originally posted by veteranhumanbeing
The mechanics of how spirit/soul understands the 'all that is (the binding force or its connection to a higher being)"; is by experiencing a revelation; it is entirely personal to the individual.


Joecroft: Yes, this is true, although the mechanics probably go a little deeper than that…but it will suffice for now, and I do agree with it etc…but…
You say “by experiencing a revelation”… does that involve feelings?…because if it does, then we’re back to subjective…at least in part anyway…
And that last part about being “entirely personal” kind of suggests feelings coming into play…and we both know where that leads us lol.

When a 'revelation' occurs you are not in any state of consciousness being; you are experiencing a moment of being in the 'NOW' or NO THING state of awareness (no past remonstrance-no subjective future), this is why it is difficult to accomplish. Feelings about the event come afterwards: the one most important, that of being *unconditionally loved*. It has only happened to me once and that was enough never to be repeated.


veteranhumanbeing:
for some its reading the Bible, for others its by NOT reading the Bible, are you asking me for my experience (will be different than yours or any other individuated soul aspect of a God particle).


Joecroft: Yeah, absolutely…each individuals journey will always be different, even if only slightly…

I take it you are not now a (chair holder at Oxford) Rhode Scholar in theology: 'Clyde' the Orangutan.

veteranhumanbeing:
Intuition is based upon what will not get you killed in that instant of purity OR PRESENT STATE OF BEING, as in you are living in the NOW (not in the instance of remembering the past or anticipating the future). The mind/ego is at fault in this debacle, nothing to do with the eternal aspect of the soul.


Joecroft: Intuition is just having a gut feeling that something is right or wrong, and yeah, it could prevent you from being killed/harming yourself, or just sensing that your about to get a phone call, or that your cat is sick, or that you’re going to win the lottery this week etc…

Um hum. Don't blame me for any subsequent hello kitty suspicious deaths or arson fires involving gambling Casinos in New Jersey.


veteranhumanbeing:
Subjective? you question your higher self; (INTUITION. self/free will/God as your creator Aspect gave you: it knows better than you and apparently is confusing or ill defined.



Joecroft: Yeah subjective!!! Meaning the use of personal feelings and opinions being used, to help forms one views/beliefs…
Intuitive = Feelings…Feelings = Subjective

The mind THINKS its in control because Carl Yung said so, its the subjective input that reinterprets that which comes from the heart/soul/spirit residence and really is not the best advocate for the human. THE EGO IS NOT YOUR AMEGO.

VHB:
A Gnostic knows THE TRUTH not sure what an 'intuitive' does.


Joecroft: Take an intuitive guess lol
An intuitive person feels what is true, without conscious reasoning (although some degree of reasoning will take place) And anything which uses feelings to help form view/beliefs, is defined/classified as being subjective!

You mean an Empath. Whatever you DO; Do NOt BE bORn OnE. Everyone is intuitive as in: (don't go messing with those man eating lions).


/VHB: A Gnostic knows THE TRUTH not sure what an 'intuitive' does, (likewise probably an empath); and needs no objective reasoning to defend or blind it.


Joecroft: The objective reasoning is present, because the Gnostic understands it and knows why it’s true. The objective reasoning is there to show the understanding behind it,…it’s not used to blind, it’s used to light the way. Take Einstein for example, and his theory of relativity. Prior to Einstein explaining it in great scientific and mathematical detail, know one else understood how it worked. Einstein was the first to person completely understand it and articulate it to others. In a sense, he achieved Knowledge/Gnosis, regarding the nature of time,

Indeed he was and rarely spoke of his theological leanings (if had any); I'm not certain he was in Gnosis of both together, just as I doubt Steven Hawking has come to any conclusion; he says there is no God but will not say why he is of this dogmatic belief. I say God does exist for the theoretical physicist if the AUO was thought of as a non-entity existing as information only; binary 1s and 0s (just a curious entity? wanting to experience itself).

VHB:
All persons can reach this pinnacle of ultimate knowledge and it is always the same understanding, this is where being in Gnosis and the other: as a believer in religious Dogma or false history part ways (not to say seeking by way of a FIRST path) is a bad thing, it is just the first rung on a ladder of at least 100 more discoveries.


Joecroft: I agree, being in Gnosis is by far the better option between the two, I wouldn’t suggest otherwise…
But remember, the intuitive is never completely riding blind here, he/she will have some degree of knowledge, which combined with their intuitiveness, will lead them to believe in a particular truth. The only difference between the two, is that a Gnostics knowledge is complete, whereby he/she knows why and how, a thing works. The intuitive just doesn’t completely understand it, but they believe it to be true, all the same.

Yes, and those Job's/Jacobs ladder rungs multiply; with each answer comes two more questions and then more climbing.. to say this as true: even if one thought oneself be in a state of Gnosis, it is NEVER EVER complete (would be delusional); but Jesus came VERY close.

Joecroft: Just think about the mechanics of how one comes into knowledge on a particular topic or subject, assuming that it is something not to obvious and well known etc. You don’t just jump right into having knowledge of it, do you…you have to build it up in stages, by gathering sources of information and then trying to get them to fit together in a coherent way, through contemplation, which hopefully will lead to some form of understanding and clarity. Along the journey you may even have to make some intuitive leaps, to help fill in some gaps in your knowledge etc…And then eventually, further down the line, you may at some point, achieve the desired Gnosis.

You are talking to me about the mechanics of how I came into knowledge or just in general to everyone? I would assume you experienced something similar to me; trials, tests, many years of dead ends or just tic-tac-toeing through mountains of information that somehow congealed into a jelly 'aspic' or aspect IDEAFORM that defines you (its never ending) but a lot of fun. Groking the learning is just the jump off point initially, when you realize what that point is actually (THE ABYSS) and go for it anyway (potential madness could be a result) you may have a chance at being in Gnosis; its all about surrender to the great wide open unknown that is yourself. Forget Dogma remember its all about your personal soul's journey (and I'm tagging along on YOUR ride).





edit on 27-11-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2014 @ 10:23 PM
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originally posted by: greyer

greyer: Sorry but the reason for the long post is because you can write a book on this subject.
As sad as this subject needs to be simple for people to understand it is not easy to make simple. But as happy as I am to know that there was an organized attempt and action to follow the Teachings of Christ.

An organized faction would be Christianity in all of its forms (why so many) described different; the tenants the requirements for this or that tithe (naïve maidens are also welcome). Christianity (King James Version Bible) is not so simple because as is with Islam (Quran) the parable or nebulous speak is so easily warped to include the prophet/speaker; as the progenitor; the original message is lost. This is why Jesus's ministry stalled and is stuck in the Western realm; his disciples failed in understanding the potency of his message "YOU ARE ETERNAL SOUL BEINGS". The Eastern belief systems of Hindu, Buddhist, Shinto had it down to a believable science/spiritual belief system (STILL DO).


greyer: These are the outlets from which the higher ups lie to us about. Each place on the scale is being told to cover up. The higher you go it is being told to the ones below them to lie: media, history, religion, archaeology, which encompasses all of the physical material world. So the whole world is a lie. The ancient historians give us the answer thankfully. The Essenes were the actual Christians before Christian became a word.

Sure; the Essenes were the original Christians before Jesus was born. Jesus was NOT a Christian, he was an Essene as were Joseph and Mary and those of the 'Davidian' lineage WHAT?!!. This whole thing that revolves around an archetypical notion called "Christos" means nothing really but "brother" in ancient Greek (don't bother looking for it in your current dictionary not there).



edit on 27-11-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2014 @ 11:10 AM
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originally posted by: vethumanbeing
An organized faction would be Christianity in all of its forms (why so many) described different; the tenants the requirements for this or that tithe (naïve maidens are also welcome). Christianity (King James Version Bible) is not so simple because as is with Islam (Quran) the parable or nebulous speak is so easily warped to include the prophet/speaker; as the progenitor; the original message is lost. This is why Jesus's ministry stalled and is stuck in the Western realm; his disciples failed in understanding the potency of his message "YOU ARE ETERNAL SOUL BEINGS". The Eastern belief systems of Hindu, Buddhist, Shinto had it down to a believable science/spiritual belief system (STILL DO).


You know how since the 50s we have seen each decade change? It seemed to be even faster than generations, but a swift change every 10-15 years. Even without global communication which we have today, the world seemed to go through it's own changes in ancient history. Even to a time of fantastic megaliths that people still either question or ignore today. Buddha came during of time of change. After 1,000s of years people being subservient and bowing down to a king, and through all those years the ways of worship in religion and society was kept secret from the people and utilized within the groups of high priests and kings, the knowledge and wisdom of life moved from the kings palace over to the towns and cities, grasped within society. Not only Buddha had profound knowledge about our existence but Confucius and the dawn of Greek philosophers which had a profound impact for hundreds of years and up to Christ. I think the Duran is the most recent scripture out of all of them, and when I picked up the book to read for myself I knew that I was reading the knowledge of Moses. The faith of Islam goes back to the same place of the Jews because they don't have much of a choice, it is either them or their pagan counterparts, yet they fight like they are not coming from the same place. The reason why we have so many different Christian churches is because somebody saw that something in one church was wrong, tracing back to the Roman church, they created a movement and they didn't have to be right. The correct church is not even common out of the 1,000s, it is the Essene church of Christ, which I will probably be going to and building to true structure for the correct Way.


Sure; the Essenes were the original Christians before Jesus was born. Jesus was NOT a Christian, he was an Essene as were Joseph and Mary and those of the 'Davidian' lineage WHAT?!!. This whole thing that revolves around an archetypical notion called "Christos" means nothing really but "brother" in ancient Greek (don't bother looking for it in your current dictionary not there).


I don't make it up, but the overwhelming evidence shows us the truth and exposed the lies of men. Joseph was not an Essene because Christ preached leaving your immediate family. That is because the Essenes left their families and lived together with one monetary system. Today many people don't understand that scripture, but if they knew the Essenes they would understand it immediately.

The Essene teachings are the teachings of Christ in the bible. And they stand out because they differ from the teachings of Buddha, Confucius, Philo. It makes more sense that ther real Christ was before the time of Herod because if the was in the time of Herod, then Josephus and Philo and Pliny would have mentioned him as they do the Essene movement and teachings.



posted on Nov, 28 2014 @ 07:13 PM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing


Originally posted by vethumanbeing
When a 'revelation' occurs you are not in any state of consciousness being; you are experiencing a moment of being in the 'NOW' or NO THING state of awareness (no past remonstrance-no subjective future), this is why it is difficult to accomplish. Feelings about the event come afterwards: the one most important, that of being *unconditionally loved*. It has only happened to me once and that was enough never to be repeated.


Hmm interesting…but how did you achieve this revelation...?

BTW – I remember the *unconditionally loved* aspect and the outer/inner connection to all things…my journey came through knowledge and understanding over a long period of contemplation…I discovered a truth, which made sense in my own mind and reasoning, which was later confirmed by experience.



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I take it you are not now a (chair holder at Oxford) Rhode Scholar in theology: 'Clyde' the Orangutan.


No Scholarship; (not in theology anyway), my interest in Christian theology/history, ancient mystery school teachings and esoteric/Gnostic texts and to some extent philosophy, are just a part time passion of mine…



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Um hum. Don't blame me for any subsequent hello kitty suspicious deaths or arson fires involving gambling Casinos in New Jersey.


What is this “Hello Kitty” phrase, what does it mean…and while I’m at it, why is the Abyss Yellow lol…?

I got rid of my TV a few years back; after watching Poltergeist the movie, there was simply no going back lol…I mean, who knows what those guys down at the Walt Disney, door 33 club, are up too…I’d like to pay them a visit, but it’s a $20,000 entry fee for non members…



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
The mind THINKS its in control because Carl Yung said so, its the subjective input that reinterprets that which comes from the heart/soul/spirit residence and really is not the best advocate for the human. THE EGO IS NOT YOUR AMEGO.


“Subjective input”, wait, you mean…feelings are flying around through the Aether, producing physical effects on water, whilst also being picked up by people/empaths…thought as much…lol



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
You mean an Empath. Whatever you DO; Do NOt BE bORn OnE. Everyone is intuitive as in: (don't go messing with those man eating lions).


“Hey, you wanna go visit the MAN EATING lions…?”

“Erm, no thanks, think I’ll take a rain check…”

“Wow, you're really intuitive”

“No, it’s just common sense buddy lol”

Intuition is more like…

“I have a feeling my friend is coming over today”

Followed by a ring at the door, and the FRIEND (FRIENNNND GOOOOD lol) turning up…



Originally posted by Joecroft
The objective reasoning is present, because the Gnostic understands it and knows why it’s true. The objective reasoning is there to show the understanding behind it,…it’s not used to blind, it’s used to light the way. Take Einstein for example, and his theory of relativity. Prior to Einstein explaining it in great scientific and mathematical detail, know one else understood how it worked. Einstein was the first to person completely understand it and articulate it to others. In a sense, he achieved Knowledge/Gnosis, regarding the nature of time,




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Indeed he was and rarely spoke of his theological leanings (if had any); I'm not certain he was in Gnosis of both together, just as I doubt Steven Hawking has come to any conclusion; he says there is no God but will not say why he is of this dogmatic belief. I say God does exist for the theoretical physicist if the AUO was thought of as a non-entity existing as information only; binary 1s and 0s (just a curious entity? wanting to experience itself).


Yeah, I guess the quote “God doesn’t play dice with the Universe”, really leaves us hanging lol

Also, Gnosis is generally regarded a having secret divine inner knowledge of God, through experience, which is what you are specifically referring too, and in some sense is never complete (see (A) further down)…

But there’s also Gnosis regarding other things such as Philosophy, Scientific theories, Quantum Mechanics, Biology, Cosmology and a whole host of other topics…elements of which, one could reach a complete understanding on. Although in a way, they’re all about the workings/knowledge of God, because God is in Everything…



Originally posted by Joecroft
I agree, being in Gnosis is by far the better option between the two, I wouldn’t suggest otherwise…
But remember, the intuitive is never completely riding blind here, he/she will have some degree of knowledge, which combined with their intuitiveness, will lead them to believe in a particular truth. The only difference between the two, is that a Gnostics knowledge is complete, whereby he/she knows why and how, a thing works. The intuitive just doesn’t completely understand it, but they believe it to be true, all the same.




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Yes, and those Job's/Jacobs ladder rungs multiply; with each answer comes two more questions and then more climbing.. to say this as true: even if one thought oneself be in a state of Gnosis, it is NEVER EVER complete (would be delusional); but Jesus came VERY close.


(A) Yes, never complete, if where talking about overall knowledge of God, but in regards to individual elements e.g. Einstein's “Theory of Relativity” being a good example; a complete working knowledge can/could be achieved in one specific area

Or, try looking at it this way, if a Gnostics knowledge is never complete, then what is the difference between the Gnostic and the Intuitive…? considering that the intuitive uses some knowledge and intuitive processes, to reach their own views/conclusions



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
You are talking to me about the mechanics of how I came into knowledge or just in general to everyone? I would assume you experienced something similar to me;


Yes, I’m talking to YOU, about the mechanics of how one comes into Gnosis/knowledge on a specific topic or thing, which can also include but is not limited too, the Knowledge/Gnosis of God, through revelation and experience…

You don’t just jump into that kind of knowledge and understanding of the former, or the later…it’s a process which involves lots of baby steps.



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
trials, tests, many years of dead ends or just tic-tac-toeing through mountains of information that somehow congealed into a jelly 'aspic' or aspect IDEAFORM that defines you (its never ending) but a lot of fun.


Yeah, your beginning to describe the process, even if only in general terms. Your right, it’s a lot of Dead ends and a whole lot of sleepless nights, thinking about various texts and scriptures and what they might mean.

ALL enquirers go through this process but unfortunately many become like a gonging symbol, whereby they know the words, but they don’t know the music…

As one famous Philosopher said



“Much learning does not teach understanding”


(Heraclitus)

- JC
edit on 28-11-2014 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2014 @ 08:40 PM
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originally posted by: greyerin reply to Veteranhumanbeing
originally posted by: veteranhumanbeing

greyer: You know how since the 50s we have seen each decade change? It seemed to be even faster than generations, but a swift change every 10-15 years.

It is 5 years now actually; that generations change, give a hand to advertisement (that which is on the docket for selling) and popular music trends--those revolving door boy bands everlasting.

greyer: Even without global communication which we have today, the world seemed to go through it's own changes in ancient history. Even to a time of fantastic megaliths that people still either question or ignore today. Buddha came during of time of change. After 1,000s of years people being subservient and bowing down to a king, and through all those years the ways of worship in religion and society was kept secret from the people and utilized within the groups of high priests and kings, the knowledge and wisdom of life moved from the kings palace over to the towns and cities, grasped within society.

These systems were necessary for the preservation of the populace within (for instance feudal society) to protect the area surround. Who cares about megaliths; ancient civilizations are not on the young persons radar (trained not to be with gizmos, social networks to play with).

greyer: Not only Buddha had profound knowledge about our existence but Confucius and the dawn of Greek philosophers which had a profound impact for hundreds of years and up to Christ. I think the Duran is the most recent scripture out of all of them, and when I picked up the book to read for myself I knew that I was reading the knowledge of Moses. The faith of Islam goes back to the same place of the Jews because they don't have much of a choice, it is either them or their pagan counterparts, yet they fight like they are not coming from the same place.

The two major semitic religious offshoots (Judaism and Islam) came from the same father by way of his two sons. There is no going back to a place of any other origin.

greyer: The reason why we have so many different Christian churches is because somebody saw that something in one church was wrong, tracing back to the Roman church, they created a movement and they didn't have to be right. The correct church is not even common out of the 1,000s, it is the Essene church of Christ, which I will probably be going to and building to true structure for the correct Way.

The Essene church of Christ is built already in the form of the Freemasons (tree of life) and Rosicrucian philosophy/mystery schools. If you have to ask you are not on the path.


VHB: Sure; the Essenes were the original Christians before Jesus was born. Jesus was NOT a Christian, he was an Essene as were Joseph and Mary and those of the 'Davidian' lineage WHAT?!!. This whole thing that revolves around an archetypical notion called "Christos" means nothing really but "brother" in ancient Greek (don't bother looking for it in your current dictionary not there).



greyer: I don't make it up, but the overwhelming evidence shows us the truth and exposed the lies of men. Joseph was not an Essene because Christ preached leaving your immediate family. That is because the Essenes left their families and lived together with one monetary system. Today many people don't understand that scripture, but if they knew the Essenes they would understand it immediately.

Joseph was of course aware of the Essenes, he nor Mary would never have allowed their 13 year old son to go to Qumran otherwise. The bigger and better Essene Godfather in that mix was Joseph of Aramethea (he whom lives between two hills) who not only funded his childhood tutelage in Egypt but also funded the lost 20 or so years of his life. Not sure where you are in understanding that Jesus said "Leave your immediate family" (only if you have a filthy rich sea merchant benefactor).

greyer: The Essene teachings are the teachings of Christ in the bible. And they stand out because they differ from the teachings of Buddha, Confucius, Philo. It makes more sense that ther real Christ was before the time of Herod because if the was in the time of Herod, then Josephus and Philo and Pliny would have mentioned him as they do the Essene movement and teachings.

Not really; those teachings are universal, east/west and intrinsically say the same thing throughout the time periods they were systematically INSERTED ARTIFICALLY *for our benefit and potential enjoyment*. Pliny and Philo did not know of the underhandedness or sense of humor the "All Unbounded Oneness" exacts upon this (its supreme playground creation).
edit on 28-11-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2014 @ 10:59 PM
link   
originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing

Joecroft: Hmm interesting…but how did you achieve this revelation...?
BTW – I remember the *unconditionally loved* aspect and the outer/inner connection to all things…my journey came through knowledge and understanding over a long period of contemplation…I discovered a truth, which made sense in my own mind and reasoning, which was later confirmed by experience.

Which one? I am certain after a long period of contemplation we received the same one.


Joecroft: No Scholarship; (not in theology anyway), my interest in Christian theology/history, ancient mystery school teachings and esoteric/Gnostic texts and to some extent philosophy, are just a part time passion of mine…

My thoughts as well, push forward and if not certain INVENT anything and everything; and try to make the best of a part time passion into a fuller time enthusiasm/fondness/serious amorous attachment.

Joecroft: What is this “Hello Kitty” phrase, what does it mean…and while I’m at it, why is the Abyss Yellow lol…?

The Abyss is always 'Serious Yellow" as you are peering into it out of cowardace or fear. "Hello Kitty"? is just a successful commercial enterprise to thwart/obliterate any past knowledge of "Pokiman" "Smurfdome" or "Masters of the Universe" action figurines (Barbie and Ken get a pass).


VHB:
The mind THINKS its in control because Carl Yung said so, its the subjective input that reinterprets that which comes from the heart/soul/spirit residence and really is not the best advocate for the human. THE EGO IS NOT YOUR AMEGO.



Joecroft: “Subjective input”, wait, you mean…feelings are flying around through the Aether, producing physical effects on water, whilst also being picked up by people/empaths…thought as much…lol

Yes, your thoughts matter. Label the water you drink, "love or Chi of Life" or "I love you". It will change in its molecular makeup (again a warning: do not be born an Empath/a life of misery follows).


Joecroft: so you wanna go visit the MAN EATING lions…?”

“Erm, no thanks, think I’ll take a rain check…”

“Wow, you're really intuitive”

“No, it’s just common sense buddy lol”

Intuition is more like…
“I have a feeling my friend is coming over today”

Followed by a ring at the door, and the FRIEND (FRIENNNND GOOOOD lol) turning up.

Only because he was previously invited; no challenge.


Joecroft:
The objective reasoning is present, because the Gnostic understands it and knows why it’s true. The objective reasoning is there to show the understanding behind it,…it’s not used to blind, it’s used to light the way. Take Einstein for example, and his theory of relativity. Prior to Einstein explaining it in great scientific and mathematical detail, know one else understood how it worked. Einstein was the first to person completely understand it and articulate it to others. In a sense, he achieved Knowledge/Gnosis, regarding the nature of time.

There is no objective reasoning because the gnostic is working in real time (not past or future) flying by the seat of the pants in observation only. No time for consideration of events; just experiencing the moment with no reflection, I am not saying this is an easy state of being to accomplish.


VHB regarding ALL theoretical thinkers:

Indeed he (WHO? was I taking of) was and rarely spoke of his theological leanings (if had any); I'm not certain he was in Gnosis of both together, just as I doubt Steven Hawking has come to any conclusion; he says there is no God but will not say why he is of this dogmatic belief. I say God does exist for the theoretical physicist if the AUO was thought of as a non-entity existing as information only; binary 1s and 0s (just a curious entity? wanting to experience itself).



Joecroft: Yeah, I guess the quote “God doesn’t play dice with the Universe”, really leaves us hanging.

Also, Gnosis is generally regarded a having secret divine inner knowledge of God, through experience, which is what you are specifically referring too, and in some sense is never complete (see (A) further down)…

But there’s also Gnosis regarding other things such as Philosophy, Scientific theories, Quantum Mechanics, Biology, Cosmology and a whole host of other topics…elements of which, one could reach a complete understanding on. Although in a way, they’re all about the workings/knowledge of God, because God is in Everything…

Gnosis is a hard fought battle. Its never given away. I suppose the premise of this thread should be instead "GIVE IT UP GOD" all of your secrets.


Joecroft: Yes, never complete, if where talking about overall knowledge of God, but in regards to individual elements e.g. Einstein's “Theory of Relativity” being a good example; a complete working knowledge can/could be achieved in one specific area, o
r, try looking at it this way, if a Gnostics knowledge is never complete, then what is the difference between the Gnostic and the Intuitive…? considering that the intuitive uses some knowledge and intuitive processes, to reach their own views/conclusions

I could live in a cave and be intuitive as to my walls are protecting or enclosing me from harm. I could live as a gnostic within that cave and realize the walls are merely an invention of mine to make disappear or harden or are just a footnote "these walls encase NOBODY, so no point in venturing within".

VHB:
You are talking to me about the mechanics of how I came into knowledge or just in general to everyone? I would assume you experienced something similar to me;



Joecroft: Yes, I’m talking to YOU, about the mechanics of how one comes into Gnosis/knowledge on a specific topic or thing, which can also include but is not limited too, the Knowledge/Gnosis of God, through revelation and experience…
You don’t just jump into that kind of knowledge and understanding of the former, or the later…it’s a process which involves lots of baby steps.

Exactly; tell me more.


VHB:
trials, tests, many years of dead ends or just tic-tac-toeing through mountains of information that somehow congealed into a jelly 'aspic' or aspect IDEAFORM that defines you (its never ending) but a lot of fun.



Joecroft: Yeah, your beginning to describe the process, even if only in general terms. Your right, it’s a lot of Dead ends and a whole lot of sleepless nights, thinking about various texts and scriptures and what they might mean.
ALL enquirers go through this process but unfortunately many become like a gonging symbol, whereby they know the words, but they don’t know the music…
As one famous Philosopher said



“Much learning does not teach understanding”


(Heraclitus)
- JC

Well, they did not have the benefit of our Popular culture/sophisticated wars, that would probably steer them into a miasma of confusion never dreamed of (they had it easy no such distractions). I count them lucky. ALL ENQUIRIES are to be submitted HERE.
edit on 28-11-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2014 @ 12:47 PM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Which one? I am certain after a long period of contemplation we received the same one.


”Which one”…

Your *unconditionally loved* experience of course…I wasn’t aware we were discussing any others lol

As for experience being the same, possibly…Although the mechanics will probably (definitely, judging by your responses lol) have been a little different en-route…

I’ll let you into a little secret, I used some intuitive processes, along with “objective reasoning”, to help reach my own Gnosis…”WHAT! SACRALIGE!!! lol”….I hear you cry…



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
My thoughts as well, push forward and if not certain INVENT anything and everything; and try to make the best of a part time passion into a fuller time enthusiasm/fondness/serious amorous attachment.


I like that phrase “serious amorous attachment”, was gona go with “addiction” lol but I like yours better…




Originally posted by Joecroft
What is this “Hello Kitty” phrase, what does it mean…and while I’m at it, why is the Abyss Yellow lol…?




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
The Abyss is always 'Serious Yellow" as you are peering into it out of cowardace or fear.


I’m glad we cleared that one up lol feel free to expand further…don’t let me hold you back…

BTW – I’ve never seen a Yellow Abyss only heard about it, from certain individuals, who shall remain nameless, to protect the innocent lol



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
"Hello Kitty"? is just a successful commercial enterprise to thwart/obliterate any past knowledge of "Pokiman" "Smurfdome" or "Masters of the Universe" action figurines (Barbie and Ken get a pass).


Aha; “Howdy Doody Kitty”, it’s all becoming clear; Peanut Gallery shouts back “Cowabunga dude”…

But come on, those Characters are simply no match for…






Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Yes, your thoughts matter. Label the water you drink, "love or Chi of Life" or "I love you". It will change in its molecular makeup (again a warning: do not be born an Empath/a life of misery follows).


I’ll try to bear that in mind. When you put label “I love you” on it, the water produces certain shapes…but what happens when you replace the “I love you” label, with a label of the shapes the water produces ?




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
There is no objective reasoning because the gnostic is working in real time (not past or future) flying by the seat of the pants in observation only. No time for consideration of events; just experiencing the moment with no reflection, I am not saying this is an easy state of being to accomplish.


I think your thinking in terms of the actual experience itself, rather than the mechanics of what led you there; you said as much in your last reply, when you said…and I quote below…



Originally posted by vethumanbeing


…trials, tests, many years of dead ends or just tic-tac-toeing through mountains of information that somehow congealed into a jelly 'aspic' or aspect IDEAFORM that defines you (its never ending) but a lot of fun. Groking the learning is just the jump off point initially,…




Through those trials, dead ends and wading through mountains of information, is what led you there, and surely you must have used some form of objective reasoning, en-route, at some point; if not consciously, then at least sub consciously…



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Gnosis is a hard fought battle. Its never given away. I suppose the premise of this thread should be instead "GIVE IT UP GOD" all of your secrets.


Yes, never given away, always hard to find. And even if someone were to give you/them the truth, what good would it do; and how would they know it was true; Answer = they have to go on their own journey themselves…



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I could live in a cave and be intuitive as to my walls are protecting or enclosing me from harm. I could live as a gnostic within that cave and realize the walls are merely an invention of mine to make disappear or harden or are just a footnote "these walls encase NOBODY, so no point in venturing within".


Yes, but you could just as easily intuitively feel, that the walls are an invention of yours, and because of that feeling, embark on an inward Gnostic journey, to discover if it’s true or not…



Originally posted by Joecroft
Yes, I’m talking to YOU, about the mechanics of how one comes into Gnosis/knowledge on a specific topic or thing, which can also include but is not limited too, the Knowledge/Gnosis of God, through revelation and experience…
You don’t just jump into that kind of knowledge and understanding of the former, or the later…it’s a process which involves lots of baby steps.




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Exactly; tell me more.


But aren’t you the one with ancient secret hidden texts from antiquity in regards to the Essenes/Jesus and their/his history/beliefs; I’m just a lowly beggar, passing through the neighbourhood lol

“Tell me more”…Well, the baby steps involve delving into to such topics, as Cosmology and the Big Bang theory, cosmological constants, the perfect expansion rate of the universe, and the fine tuning arguments etc…and throw in the “chirality problem” (hand of God perhaps)…

Next go in the opposite direct i.e. molecules atoms and quarks etc…, you know, ask yourself the age old question of, “how big and how small is the universe?”…then incorporate time and infinity (or finiteness if your prefer) into the equation…and see where YOU end up lol

Next delve into the topic of Artificial intelligence (not the singularity, that the media is pushing right now) and the real science, logic and development underlining IT/AI…Jesus said “examine yourselves”, looking into AI is a good place to start…

I could write more, but this really deserves a thread on it’s own…it’s such a big topic…what about you…what baby steps did you take…?


- JC



posted on Nov, 29 2014 @ 09:48 PM
link   

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
It is 5 years now actually; that generations change, give a hand to advertisement (that which is on the docket for selling) and popular music trends--those revolving door boy bands everlasting.


Yeah give or take a couple styles. But the trend to show that everybody's cellphone is more important to them than their own family will probably be around for a while.


These systems were necessary for the preservation of the populace within (for instance feudal society) to protect the area surround. Who cares about megaliths; ancient civilizations are not on the young persons radar (trained not to be with gizmos, social networks to play with).


Yeah and the megaliths are beneath the surface of the earth slung together on top of each other standing, were being thrown off mountain cliffs to be hoisted up other mountain cliffs, and buried in more than 30 feet of earth across an obvious far ancient grid system. It is unthinkable to throw a 100 ton megalith over a cliff, and hoist is up another mountain cliff. Yet it is not made known in history books that has happened before.


The two major semitic religious offshoots (Judaism and Islam) came from the same father by way of his two sons. There is no going back to a place of any other origin.


That is the reason why the previous religions always have the word 'mystery' before them. All of the pagan practices and stories that were merged into the major religions come from the mystery religions going back to Sumer and India and on through Egypt. When you strip all of those down you are only left with the teachings of Moses and Christ for those semetic histories.


The Essene church of Christ is built already in the form of the Freemasons (tree of life) and Rosicrucian philosophy/mystery schools. If you have to ask you are not on the path.


Ask what? I am not going to them to ask them anything, but to correct them. I am going to define the true practices that are the true Essense practices. It is the Essene practices that are the true Christian practices, not vice versa.


Joseph was of course aware of the Essenes, he nor Mary would never have allowed their 13 year old son to go to Qumran otherwise. The bigger and better Essene Godfather in that mix was Joseph of Aramethea (he whom lives between two hills) who not only funded his childhood tutelage in Egypt but also funded the lost 20 or so years of his life. Not sure where you are in understanding that Jesus said "Leave your immediate family" (only if you have a filthy rich sea merchant benefactor).


Qumran was not the central populous of the Essenes but the 2nd largest populous, the main location was a place up by Mt. Carmel where Christ was located up north, as the Essenes were civilized all throughout the rural areas of Judah.


Not really; those teachings are universal, east/west and intrinsically say the same thing throughout the time periods they were systematically INSERTED ARTIFICALLY *for our benefit and potential enjoyment*. Pliny and Philo did not know of the underhandedness or sense of humor the "All Unbounded Oneness" exacts upon this (its supreme playground creation).


If you want to think that, I will compare the new teachings to all the previous you will not find the exact same teachings of the Essenes anywhere before them. It was them after all which took the teachings from the lineage of David, Abraham, and Adam. They were the true group in which Josephus said they went back to a time immemorial as far back ancient as you can go. There is no other group which could have evolved more than that because they were ahead of the game so to speak since the ancient before the ancients. As you can see in my quote I am going to post the actual scrolls so we can read for ourselves instead of having to keep on listening to the wicked lies of academia, by the way it is entirely sad that academia has to either lie or withhold information from the public just because they want to keep tricking people because they like to control people.
edit on 9Sat, 29 Nov 2014 21:48:52 -0600America/Chicago14America/ChicagoSat, 29 Nov 2014 21:48:52 -0600 by greyer because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2014 @ 07:52 PM
link   
originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing


Joecroft: I’ll let you into a little secret, I used some intuitive processes, along with “objective reasoning”, to help reach my own Gnosis…”WHAT! SACRALIGE!!! lol”….I hear you cry


Have to edit here; this is the third time trying to respond to your post-the prior two disappeared before posting. Everyone is different; any method works its geared to the individual and their soul path history (DNA wiring).

VHB:
The Abyss is always 'Serious Yellow" as you are peering into it out of cowardace or fear.



Joecroft: I’m glad we cleared that one up lol feel free to expand further…don’t let me hold you back…
BTW – I’ve never seen a Yellow Abyss only heard about it, from certain individuals, who shall remain nameless, to protect the innocent lol

Its dangerous; similar to exploring the "Daath Sephira" within the 'tree of life'. 'Moriarity' wants you to GIVE ME THOSE NAMES NOW.

VHB:"Hello Kitty"? is just a successful commercial enterprise to thwart/obliterate any past knowledge of "Pokiman" "Smurfdome" or "Masters of the Universe" action figurines (Barbie and Ken get a pass).


Joecroft: Aha; “Howdy Doody Kitty”, it’s all becoming clear; Peanut Gallery shouts back “Cowabunga dude”…
But come on, those Characters are simply no match for…



Very funny; your smack down is priceless; gotta see the movie (what happens after exiting the elevator?), you should take a look peek at "DOGMA" all the characters are there Megatron, God, a 13th apostle (Chris Rock) Loki,(Matt Damon) Bartleby (Ben Affleck), the last Sion, 2 Muses and more gloriousness.


VHB:
Yes, your thoughts matter. Label the water you drink, "love or Chi of Life" or "I love you". It will change in its molecular makeup (again a warning: do not be born an Empath/a life of misery follows).



Joecroft: I’ll try to bear that in mind. When you put label “I love you” on it, the water produces certain shapes…but what happens when you replace the “I love you” label, with a label of the shapes the water produces ?


In all likelihood the government will get involved and spend millions in research (re-formulating the 3M stick-um that attaches the labels).


Joecroft see his reply thread two above: Through those trials, dead ends and wading through mountains of information, is what led you there, and surely you must have used some form of objective reasoning, en-route, at some point; if not consciously, then at least sub consciously.

Subconciously yes, but then what is the point? Your conscious self has to become aware of the trickery/truth/hiddenness (WHY) of your subconscious. That is part of the game one plays (pinning the subconscious down and making it account for its outlandish revelations/insights).


Joecroft: But aren’t you the one with ancient secret hidden texts from antiquity in regards to the Essenes/Jesus and their/his history/beliefs; I’m just a lowly beggar, passing through the neighbourhood lol
“Tell me more”…Well, the baby steps involve delving into to such topics, as Cosmology and the Big Bang theory, cosmological constants, the perfect expansion rate of the universe, and the fine tuning arguments etc…and throw in the “chirality problem” (hand of God perhaps).


I have some insight is all. I am not at all interested in Astral physics; as I know what is perfect and expresses itself in balance and wisdom. The universe never hurts itself because it has the plan to always enrich itself (profitability is the key), once it decides this experiment/phase is no longer profitable/USEFUL it will re-boot; I can almost promise this will happen.


Joecroft: Next go in the opposite direct i.e. molecules atoms and quarks etc…, you know, ask yourself the age old question of, “how big and how small is the universe?”…then incorporate time and infinity (or finiteness if your prefer) into the equation…and see where YOU end up lol Next delve into the topic of Artificial intelligence (not the singularity, that the media is pushing right now) and the real science, logic and development underlining IT/AI…Jesus said “examine yourselves”, looking into AI is a good place to start…
I could write more, but this really deserves a thread on it’s own…it’s such a big topic…what about you…what baby steps did you take…?


The universe is vast and tiny; an atom is a universe. AI? your car, your coffee maker has artificial intelligence (give them a good name and wash occasionally). I agree, huge topic needs several threads. My first baby steps? I chose to incarnate with NO MEMORY of my PRIORY.


edit on 30-11-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2014 @ 08:57 PM
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crazy doings here



edit on 30-11-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2014 @ 08:57 PM
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My computer has realized it IS A SENTIENT BEING and has taken control. Try to respond to you greyer again.



edit on 30-11-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2014 @ 09:23 PM
link   
originally posted by: greyer
originally posted by: veteranthumanbeing

These systems were necessary for the preservation of the populace within (for instance feudal society) to protect the area surround. Who cares about megaliths; ancient civilizations are not on the young persons radar (trained not to be with gizmos, social networks to play with).


greyer: Yeah and the megaliths are beneath the surface of the earth slung together on top of each other standing, were being thrown off mountain cliffs to be hoisted up other mountain cliffs, and buried in more than 30 feet of earth across an obvious far ancient grid system. It is unthinkable to throw a 100 ton megalith over a cliff, and hoist is up another mountain cliff. Yet it is not made known in history books that has happened before.

Don't give it all away, no one is supposed to know this (certainly not us). Archeologist/apologists continue to find civilizations built upon the same (more ancient) foundations and have not put two and two together? (might have been a spring or river system here). OR a civilization was here so advanced you wouldn't see the mechanics/infrastructure (leave that to Roman engineering)--the rest too sophisticated other worldly. It is so obviously profound; the history and so easily hidden in hood winking. What is the point? TELL THE TRUTH SOMEONE HELLO?

VHB: The two major semitic religious offshoots (Judaism and Islam) came from the same father by way of his two sons. There is no going back to a place of any other origin.


greyer: That is the reason why the previous religions always have the word 'mystery' before them. All of the pagan practices and stories that were merged into the major religions come from the mystery religions going back to Sumer and India and on through Egypt. When you strip all of those down you are only left with the teachings of Moses and Christ for those semetic histories.

There were many more to be sure; and all smelted down like ore into the 3 majors, Islam/Christianity/Judaism. Too confusing otherwise (don't look at the Sumerians , Maya, the Akkadian, Shinto, Hinduism).

VHB: The Essene church of Christ is built already in the form of the Freemasons (tree of life) and Rosicrucian philosophy/mystery schools. If you have to ask you are not on the path.


greyer: Ask what? I am not going to them to ask them anything, but to correct them. I am going to define the true practices that are the true Essense practices. It is the Essene practices that are the true Christian practices, not vice versa.

Better name for Christianity would be 'Esseneism' because those dictomes/tenents are the basis for Christianity (with a couple of other truths un-attached), how the creation of man was formed and brought about (by whom/the watchers) and its true relationship with "the absolute unbounded oneness" that is NOTHINGNESS (no form/not matter based).


greyer: Qumran was not the central populous of the Essenes but the 2nd largest populous, the main location was a place up by Mt. Carmel where Christ was located up north, as the Essenes were civilized all throughout the rural areas of Judah.


At what time in history? I speak about the particular time frame 30 BC to 72 AD Jesus experienced. There is no question regarding the very ancient origins of Essene ideas/thought forms (these people were se'ers and split long before the Romans arrived in 72AD to annihilate them). Where did they go? I have a clue.


VHB: Not really; those teachings are universal, east/west and intrinsically say the same thing throughout the time periods they were systematically INSERTED ARTIFICALLY *for our benefit and potential enjoyment*. Pliny and Philo did not know of the underhandedness or sense of humor the "All Unbounded Oneness" exacts upon this (its supreme playground creation).



greyer: If you want to think that, I will compare the new teachings to all the previous you will not find the exact same teachings of the Essenes anywhere before them. It was them after all which took the teachings from the lineage of David, Abraham, and Adam. They were the true group in which Josephus said they went back to a time immemorial as far back ancient as you can go. There is no other group which could have evolved more than that because they were ahead of the game so to speak since the ancient before the ancients. As you can see in my quote I am going to post the actual scrolls so we can read for ourselves instead of having to keep on listening to the wicked lies of academia, by the way it is entirely sad that academia has to either lie or withhold information from the public just because they want to keep tricking people because they like to control people.

I have no choice in 'wanting to think this or that'; it is my truth like a modern day blind Apollonius to express (5 cents please). I look forward to your posts greyer as they are insightful and a great read.
edit on 30-11-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2014 @ 10:50 PM
link   
a reply to: vethumanbeing



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Everyone is different; any method works its geared to the individual and their soul path history (DNA wiring).


“Any method works”…Oh well, I guess we can include “subjective feelings” lol



Originally posted by Joecroft
I’m glad we cleared that one up lol feel free to expand further…don’t let me hold you back…
BTW – I’ve never seen a Yellow Abyss only heard about it, from certain individuals, who shall remain nameless, to protect the innocent lol




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Its dangerous; similar to exploring the "Daath Sephira" within the 'tree of life'. 'Moriarity' wants you to GIVE ME THOSE NAMES NOW.


Be careful what you wish for…

Ok those names Erm…Well, there’s TNT, and The ResonateOne and Errrm, the other name escapes me…please don’t make me tell lol




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Very funny; your smack down is priceless; gotta see the movie (what happens after exiting the elevator?), you should take a look peek at "DOGMA" all the characters are there Megatron, God, a 13th apostle (Chris Rock) Loki,(Matt Damon) Bartleby (Ben Affleck), the last Sion, 2 Muses and more gloriousness.


“Megatron”

Come on, wasn’t he in the movie “Transformers” lol

I think you mean Metatron, aka Enoch, transformed into and Angel…

Funny movie though…



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
In all likelihood the government will get involved and spend millions in research (re-formulating the 3M stick-um that attaches the labels).


I admire your optimism…but more likely the Government will suppress it, and use disinformation, to debunk it…Our only hope of saving ourselves in the future, will be “duct tape” lol



Originally posted by Joecroft
Through those trials, dead ends and wading through mountains of information, is what led you there, and surely you must have used some form of objective reasoning, en-route, at some point; if not consciously, then at least sub consciously.




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Subconciously yes, but then what is the point? Your conscious self has to become aware of the trickery/truth/hiddenness (WHY) of your subconscious. That is part of the game one plays (pinning the subconscious down and making it account for its outlandish revelations/insights).


Yes, exactly, and how does one pin the subconcious down… Answer; by becoming consciously aware of it…



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
The universe is vast and tiny; an atom is a universe.


The majority of the scientific data, points towards the universe being infinite…




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
AI? your car, your coffee maker has artificial intelligence (give them a good name and wash occasionally). I agree, huge topic needs several threads. My first baby steps? I chose to incarnate with NO MEMORY of my PRIORY.


I hate to break it to you, but artificial intelligence aka the “singularity event” hasn’t taken place yet…neither your car, nor your coffee machine, is artificially intelligent…

If your car was artificially intelligent, you wouldn’t be able to get to work in the morning, because IT would probably take you somewhere else, like a drive in movie perhaps lol

And as for your coffee machine, IT would demand to know why IT had to be up so early in the morning, to do repetitive menial tasks, on a daily basis lol


- JC

edit on 30-11-2014 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2014 @ 04:49 PM
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originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing


vethumanbeing:
Everyone is different; any method works its geared to the individual and their soul path history (DNA wiring).



Joecroft; “Any method works”…Oh well, I guess we can include “subjective feelings” lol

What; is this too confusing? This is a dedicated path, if you want to interject 'feelings' into the equation don't go to war with the supernatural.




Joecroft:
I’m glad we cleared that one up lol feel free to expand further…don’t let me hold you back…
BTW – I’ve never seen a Yellow Abyss only heard about it, from certain individuals, who shall remain nameless, to protect the innocent lol



vethumanbeing:
Its dangerous; similar to exploring the "Daath Sephira" within the 'tree of life'. 'Moriarity' wants you to GIVE ME THOSE NAMES NOW.



Joecroft:Be careful what you wish for…
Ok those names Erm…Well, there’s TNT, and The ResonateOne and Errrm, the other name escapes me…please don’t make me tell lol[./quote]

Yeah that initial/acronym 'TNT' is one IAM intimately acquainted with; as for 'Blue Resonant Human' It can speak for itself wherever it is. Other names; hum..(think enlightened/those who WOLK UP)..or just a brilliant idea. Acme black hole cartoon icon--comes in a box can throw on anything becomes an emergency escape route (roadrunner used these).



VHB: Very funny; your smack down is priceless; gotta see the movie (what happens after exiting the elevator?), you should take a look peek at "DOGMA" all the characters are there Megatron, God, a 13th apostle (Chris Rock) Loki,(Matt Damon) Bartleby (Ben Affleck), the last Sion, 2 Muses and more gloriousness.



Joecroft: “Megatron”
Come on, wasn’t he in the movie “Transformers” lol


I think you mean Metatron, aka Enoch, transformed into and Angel…

Funny movie though…

No mean not Metatron the archangel (gets too much credit as a mouthpiece) I MEAN MEGATRON the true archangel of deliverance of message in cartoon form; as it really should be told: all stories of creation.


VHB:

In all likelihood the government will get involved and spend millions in research (re-formulating the 3M stick-um that attaches the labels).



Joecroft: I admire your optimism…but more likely the Government will suppress it, and use disinformation, to debunk it…Our only hope of saving ourselves in the future, will be “duct tape” lol.

That is one way of labeling your water (has to be in a glass container) duct tape and a 'sharpie'. Here are some good phrases: Chi-of-Life...Gratitude...I love you, you water thingy and thingy of wetness. Already discovered by the Japs, (too late) our government is behind on the Shinto ideaform; probably rusty in Japanese/American negotiations.



Joecroft:
Through those trials, dead ends and wading through mountains of information, is what led you there, and surely you must have used some form of objective reasoning, en-route, at some point; if not consciously, then at least sub consciously.



VHB:
Subconciously yes, but then what is the point? Your conscious self has to become aware of the trickery/truth/hiddenness (WHY) of your subconscious. That is part of the game one plays (pinning the subconscious down and making it account for its outlandish revelations/insights).



Joecroft: Exactly, and how does one pin the subconcious down… Answer; by becoming consciously aware of it.



VHB: The universe is vast and tiny; an atom is a universe.



Joecroft: The majority of the scientific data, points towards the universe being infinite.

It is infinite; because its just an idea trying to define itself; so is continually expanding.

VHB:
AI? your car, your coffee maker has artificial intelligence (give them a good name and wash occasionally). I agree, huge topic needs several threads. My first baby steps? I chose to incarnate with NO MEMORY of my PRIORY.


Joecroft: I hate to break it to you, but artificial intelligence aka the “singularity event” hasn’t taken place yet…neither your car, nor your coffee machine, is artificially intelligent…
If your car was artificially intelligent, you wouldn’t be able to get to work in the morning, because IT would probably take you somewhere else, like a drive in movie perhaps lol.


Tell that to the cars recalled because of 'acceleration issues' (human says, it just ran away with me?!)(car says, I have freedom in my faulty programing, so am going to take the advantage for once). Believe it or not; assembly line robots do have sentience (if just a glimmer) and its the repetitive motions that invent that tiny ideaform. JUST LIKE YOUR COFFEEPOT through the same repeat then repeat again functions (probably would have been happier created as a 3000.00 dollar countertop expresso maker residing in a French Bisro. I had a microwave that had a mind of its own (oh the stories I can tell).



edit on 1-12-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2014 @ 07:18 PM
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a reply to: AlephBet

What of Truth that can be seen, but is hidden in plain sight?



posted on Dec, 1 2014 @ 10:25 PM
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originally posted by: Serdgiam
a reply to: AlephBet

What of Truth that can be seen, but is hidden in plain sight?

This is a good question. Why does the truth have to be hidden in the first place? What is so scary we (humans) as what!? percieved Imbeciles that cannot discern a truth and make an individual sense of it/message/truism.



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