Crusade vs. Jihad

Meanwhile, outside Granada, the Christian kings waited. In relentless succession they had retaken Toledo, Cordoba, and Seville. Only Granada survived. Then, in 1482, in a trivial quarrel, the Muslim kingdom split into two hostile factions and, simultaneously, two strong Christian sovereigns, Ferdinand and Isabella, married and merged their kingdoms. As a result, Granada fell ten years later. On January 2, 1492 - the year they sent Columbus to America - Ferdinand and Isabella hoisted the banner of Christian Spain above the Alhambra and Boabdil, the last Muslim king, rode weeping into exile with the bitter envoi from his aged mother, "Weep like a woman for the city you would not defend like a man!"

King Aragon Defeated the ORC's from spain. Good had destroyed evil that day.

IMO

The Crusades were NOT like the current JIHAD. The Crusades were fought by the Christians against the Muslims in order to TAKE BACK their nation. whether that nation was the East Roman Empire or Southern Europe itself.

The Crusades were fought to defend ourselves and to hold back the expansion of the Muslims.


This Current "JIHAD" is different. The Muslims want a seat at our table. They want more control in the world, they want a larger peice of the world, and they want to destroy our way of life. The Muslims are expanding again... look at the recent population boom in the UK, France, Germany, Switzerland. Look at Spain and Turkey the 2 nations that the Muslims conquered in the previous expansions.


Unfortunately this is a war that is unavoidable. We did not start it, as in the 2 other crusades...but we will win it. we will.

ok i dont agree with thinker, this war was caused by the greedy corporate fat cats, who dont care who lives or who dies, they only care for one thing money. the bible condones killing non believers aka the great floods of noha, many accounts in the bible contain gods wrath killing non believers, we live in an illusion, cant you all see these wars are meaningless, the powers that be eg the government are sadistic fools with no emotions they are puppets.

i hope justice is delivered.

i mean i hope peace will raighn not terror, i think the rebel forces are just as bad. bin laden is a plastic rebel he dosent care about islam, he wants what bush wants.

Originally posted by Thinker

No we are not. Islam preaches death to non believers and tell's it followes to instill terror into non-believers.

[sarcasem]
thinker you are so right we muslims wake up each day and have one thing on our mind go out and preach hate [sarcasem off]


stop preaching this sh*t
( if i say anymore i will get a warning )

Originally posted by jsobecky

Sure thing. Here ya go:
www.hyperdictionary.com...

Of course, both of our definitions are just words on a paper, no? The true definition is how it is implemented.

page not found
also your right its do with how people use the word


[edit on 11-12-2004 by bodrul]

Originally posted by BeLowUIdontevenknowu
The Crusades were fought by the Christians against the Muslims in order to TAKE BACK their nation. whether that nation was the East Roman Empire or Southern Europe itself.

The concept of "nation" wasn't invented till much later... the first "national" war on record is the Hundred Year War - it started in 1337 as a conflict between two feudal lords (the King of France and the King of England, both of which spoke French first and foremost) for the possession of lands and people. Around the 1420's and 1430's, it became truly, in the minds of the French, a war of resistance to the English.

But to speak of "nation" in the context of 1095, when the first Crusade was launched, makes absolutely no sense. Christians of that time had no nation. They had local lords, who themselves had provincial lords, who themselves had a king. The ties in those days were not national, but rather personal - you were bound by oath to your lord, not your country.

This Current "JIHAD" is different. The Muslims want a seat at our table. They want more control in the world, they want a larger peice of the world, and they want to destroy our way of life. The Muslims are expanding again... look at the recent population boom in the UK, France, Germany, Switzerland. Look at Spain and Turkey the 2 nations that the Muslims conquered in the previous expansions.

They want to control our world? Wow. You must understand, there is not generaly accepted universality which is Islam; there exists many sects of Islam, some of which war against eachother. Have Muslims said they want to control the world, or have they stated that don't want the west to control thiers?

A population boom, is just that, a population boom.

Deep

Trouble is - it only looks like a historical struggle on the outside
On the inside the perpetrators are practising Satanists creating an illusion that pitts the supposedly differing sides against one another
It is absurd to promote one or either side against the other when both are being manipulated from the top

Comparing the Crusades to Jihad is like comparing Charles Manson to a petty thief.

First of all, the Crusades were more action than tallk. They sacked and murdered every town and every person in it, not just Muslim people.

Jihad isn't even a Holy War. The Media has brainwashed the whole world. And taking the definition of Jihad from a Western dictionary is utter ignorance.

Take the meaning of Jihad from the people who came up with it. There two Jihads, a lesser and greater. The greater jihad is the fight within one's self to strive to be a better person. The lesser Jihad is to fight those who fight you. It's not an offensive call to all Muslims to kill Christians. It's a call to protect yourself and Islam.

Originally posted by Illmatic67
Jihad isn't even a Holy War. The Media has brainwashed the whole world. And taking the definition of Jihad from a Western dictionary is utter ignorance.

Take the meaning of Jihad from the people who came up with it. There two Jihads, a lesser and greater. The greater jihad is the fight within one's self to strive to be a better person. The lesser Jihad is to fight those who fight you. It's not an offensive call to all Muslims to kill Christians. It's a call to protect yourself and Islam.

you must be retarded. The Jihad is a call to arms. It is a call of duty to fight the enemies that their leaders have selected.

When did we attack Islam? They declared "Jihad" against us years ago, yearsbefore the 9-11 attack, years before the USS COLE attack.

Let me guess...you are over educated, am i right?

See the world for what it is, not what you want it to be. Jihad is a "BAD WORD" so get off your high horse and stop defending our enemies.

you must be retarded. The Jihad is a call to arms. It is a call of duty to fight the enemies that their leaders have selected.

When did we attack Islam? They declared "Jihad" against us years ago, yearsbefore the 9-11 attack, years before the USS COLE attack.

Let me guess...you are over educated, am i right?

See the world for what it is, not what you want it to be. Jihad is a "BAD WORD" so get off your high horse and stop defending our enemies.

I don't see you providing us with a factualy basis of what a 'true' Jihad should be, in advocacy of your definition.

Of all of that, which one actualy was relevent discussion material, and which was just blatant attacks against one of the only Islamic members of this site?

Can you give me an exact date as to when Jihad was declared, and when it was declared by every single Islamic member on this planet?

This is a mature forum, you don't have to act like an ignorant child to get attention; you seem utterly cantankerous.

Deep

[edit on 11-12-2004 by ZeroDeep]

Originally posted by Otts


The concept of "nation" wasn't invented till much later...

I used the word "nation" to put it into context for us all to understand.

Thank you for tearing apart my answer and finding one word that didn't make absolute sense...let me ask you, did you understand what I meant? Would everyone else have understood what i meant if i said "feudal territory"?

So you are one of those people that look for the problem...but neigh offer a solution. IMO that makes you part of the problem.

pointing out the problem without offering a solution, makes you foolish.

I just wanted to go on record saying that...

I do not believe that all muslims are the problem.

I do not believe that WAR is the only solution to the problem.



Nonetheless, the problem is growing and a big part of the problem is the propoganda that is taking place in these muslim nations... they are teaching hate in their schools and in their mosques.

Do they really think they can win? Do they really think that they can make a difference?

The Muslims need to understand that America will do anything it wants to do, and especially everything that it has to do to secure its place as the dominant nation in the world. We will live in peace, even if the rest of the world is a desert.

Muslims need to read the KORAN and rediscover their own religion, they will see that the Muslim Faith is one of Peace...oh wait many of the muslims are illiterate...so they can't. And the clerics are part of the problem...I guess that more must die, maybe an entire genation that has been polluted by the people that want war. Until there is no more hate in the muslim world towards America, then there is no other choice.

As the wise Yoda said, Hate breeds anger and anger turns into fear and Fear leads to the darkside (war). ...or soemthing like that.

But remember always that the Muslim faith is not our enemy

Nonetheless, the problem is growing and a big part of the problem is the propoganda that is taking place in these muslim nations... they are teaching hate in their schools and in their mosques.

Do they really think they can win? Do they really think that they can make a difference?

The Muslims need to understand that America will do anything it wants to do, and especially everything that it has to do to secure its place as the dominant nation in the world. We will live in peace, even if the rest of the world is a desert.

You need to get a straight and level head on those shoulders. Can you prove to me that Muslims are only taught hate and propaganda? Can you prove anything you state?

Deep

MARCH 1997 Is when JIHAD was declared against AMERICA...

what did we do again?

aolsearch.aol.com... today.com%2Fbrahimi.htm

Below - if you can't take having your posts discussed like mine or any other poster's posts are discussed, it's not my problem. I'm pointing out that saying that the Crusades were a "defense" issue is highly debatable. Feudal society meant that lords fought amongst themselves, turf wars were common, and it can be argued that the Crusades - or at least the first - were one Pope's answer to intestinal wars within Christendom - which had also suffered a major schism in the 11th century.

What I'm saying is that it's not clear what the motive was, and it's debatable that it was "defense".

If you think I'm part of the problem and not the solution, simply because I point out something for the sake of what - in my silly mind - is discussion and not dogma, that's your issue, not mine.

That site does not work.

I find you to be a problem. You have a tunnel vision of Middle Eastern views feuled by tautalogous propaganda machines in the U.S.

Deep

Originally posted by BeLowUIdontevenknowu
The Muslims need to understand that America will do anything it wants to do, and especially everything that it has to do to secure its place as the dominant nation in the world. We will live in peace, even if the rest of the world is a desert.

So America is going for world dictatorship now? Or rather, other countries will bend to America's needs?

I sure hope that opinion isn't shared by a majority of Americans. If it is, you'll have a lot of enemies.

Originally posted by quango
The crusades aren't acceptable - they're just not relevant.

The Christians of today aren't responsible for those acts.

The people involved in Jihad RIGHT NOW, ARE involved.

As for Bush - he feels he's acting in defense, as opposed to the Jihadists.

Maybe the Jihadists do to, in a way, but that would ruin my point, so nevermind.

No, Bush has been invading entire nations as punishment for the actions of small groups of fanatics. He even called his godamn war a crusade

Originally posted by BeLowUIdontevenknowu


you must be retarded. The Jihad is a call to arms. It is a call of duty to fight the enemies that their leaders have selected.

When did we attack Islam? They declared "Jihad" against us years ago, yearsbefore the 9-11 attack, years before the USS COLE attack.

Let me guess...you are over educated, am i right?

See the world for what it is, not what you want it to be. Jihad is a "BAD WORD" so get off your high horse and stop defending our enemies.

the only one that is retarded is your self
back up the Sh*t that you speak with proof.
also go and read a book then insulting them since they seem to have a higher IQ then you do