Is feminism sociologically unhelpfull? Or is it a true reflection of society?

a reply to: funkadeliaaaa

See, funk, this is feminism: the black and white "you're for us or against us" routine, as evidenced in this very thread. The malicious shame tactics—"you do not subscribe to feminism, therefor you do not want individual human rights for all"—logic connected by nothing but air, and fallacious to boot. It is a breeding ground for sexism and irrational hate, the very same principles feminism claims to be against.

originally posted by: Words
a reply to: funkadeliaaaa

See, funk, this is feminism: the black and white "you're for us or against us" routine, as evidenced in this very thread. The malicious shame tactics—"you do not subscribe to feminism, therefor you do not want individual human rights for all"—logic connected by nothing but air, and fallacious to boot. It is a breeding ground for sexism and irrational hate, the very same principles feminism claims to be against.

By not accepting scientific studies proving inequality as a truth and obviously having never experienced the type of inequalities women experience for yourself, I would expect people such as yourself to simply claim ignorance and move on, but you would rather attack the cause and then turn the tables.

originally posted by: Auricom

originally posted by: FyreByrd

What is it with this 'seething hatred of men' and 'bitter old women' crap.

I don't know, I'm not a bigoted and hateful person using feminism as a guise. From women actively suggestion public castration of males to open rape of males, is it any wonder why people think what they do? I'm guessing you adhere to group "1".

Open rape of males? Show me a source for just one case.

And just want is Open Rape? Rape outdoors, all-comers get to rape, what is Open Rape?

originally posted by: FyreByrd
Open rape of males? Show me a source for just one case.

There is no "case", wasn't stating that there was even. I'm referring to an idiot "feminist" on Youtube who has made that statement, and many other similar statements. I'm sure if you search you'll find it.

So get over yourself, if insane men can act this way, so can insane women.

Sorry but all ive seen you say so far in defence of the continued presence of feminism in our ostensibly non sexist society is that womens hair cuts cost on average more than mens.

Patriarchy is not bad in its self. Unethical policies are bad, that discriminate on the basis of name, fame, gender, ethnicity religous identity, class, or culture. If feminists want to deny patriarchy the right to its continued existence in society, its nothing but sexist sub-standard academic bull# in my opinion.

a reply to: funkadeliaaaa

I'm not trying to tell you you're wrong, because in western society today females have more rights than most women in the world, and at a lot of other points I history. But there is still a lot to be done to create equality between genders (all people even). There's still a prevailing attitude in some peoples heads that females are inferior to men.

I've known a lot of men in the trades industry, and they'll tell me that women won't get hired because they can't do the work, or if they do, they will get paid at a lower wage. And the stuff men say to them is awful (actually the stuff both men and women say about each other is awful sometimes).

Here's something for you, I hung around men quite a bit. One day me and the guys were moving stuff from the shed. I wanted to help with some of the heavier lifting, but was told I am unable because I am female. This was BS. I helped. Proved them wrong.

In some third world countries women and children are still given no voice or opinion, they're subjected to the adult mans wishes and desires. Look at Africa. 200 school girls in Nigeria were kidnapped because they were female. In some parts of china female girls were killed or disposed of for the longest time, only because men were the only ones allowed to inherit property, and they could only have one child.

There's nothing wrong with a patriarchal society, just as there's nothing wrong with a matriarchal society. As long as each respects the others opinions and views. I work with a couple of ladies who practice Islam and they are quite proud of their culture. Yes they respect what the men do but the men also respect what they do. They each have their own roles. One of the ladies husbands never checks out what his wife bought with his money, because he trusts her role as the women of the house to raise their children and to buy what they need. And when she wanted to get a job after years of not working, he respected that. Just as she trusts him to do the renovations around the house and to protect his family.

Here's a link that gives a list of modern matriachal societies nowadays. metro.co.uk...

There's still a lot of misconceptions about the value of each person in society today. Look at this one site. This guy views women like they're trash. www.pimpingmygame.com...
It's hurtful and cruel and does not give women the respect and value they deserve.

Each person is different and everyone's going to have different opinions on the subject. But really? At the end of the day everyone's rights should be respected. First Nations are treated horribly here in canada, people who are black are treated like they're inferior to whites. Treating people like they're inferior to someone else is wrong. It does not conduct to a productive society. So maybe instead of focusing on just gender equality (ie feminism) maybe we should focus on respect and equality for everyone?

a reply to: InTheLight

I do not deny inequality, only that feminism is any kind of solution to it. You have never experienced the types of inequalities men experience for yourself. The victim routine can be played by anyone.

a reply to: Tangerine

Thank you very much but I do know what patriarchy means, a society where a male holds the predomanite power, there's nothing wrong with that as long as they respect others opinions.

I ask that you discontinue calling me names and apologize to me for the rude comments. There's no reason for you to resort to childish name calling. Instead maybe come back at me with the definition or an intelligent debate.

Oh and the internet is a wonderful thing for us 'fools' here's a definition that I already knew about patriachal societies dictionary.reference.com...

originally posted by: Tangerine
a reply to: InfamousSiren


Another fool who doesn't know what patriarchy means.

The definition of patriarchy is definately at the heart of the debate. To me, patriarchy means any society (social group) with a patriarch (male leader). And a matriarchy is any social group or society with a matriarch (female leader). I as an anarchist am not a fan of any leaders as it happens. But i respect the right of anyone to lead their social group in whatever way for as long as necessary, regardless of gender. Basically the point i am trying to make is, so long as women are not treated as unequal under a patriarchal leadership, and men are not treated as unequal under a matriarchal leadership, i see no problem with matriarchy or patriachy in theory. But it seems feminism has falsely identified "patriarchy" (as a whole) to be an evil thing, and any male leader is part of a patriachal conspiracy, (even if he doesn't realise it?) of sexist patriarchal men who want men to be the only leaders in society at large, and who want to subjugate women. If females have been subjected to a brainwashing by patriarchal societies and institutions, about their role and identity as women, it is u to feminists to be more accurate in their identification of these sexist patriarchal societies, instead of over-generalising by accusing patriarchal socities as a whole. And i don't think the way to implement change is to force those patriarchal systems to change, i think the way to change it is to set up an alternative outside of those sexist and abusive institutions and societies. To me society is a fluid as the water in my eye, and patriarchy is not set in stone it never was an it never will be. Also, men also suffer as a result of oppressive sexist patriarchal indoctrination, because they are deprived of a harmonious relationship with women their whole lives, due tonthe indoctrination and brainwashing. And equally women indoctrinated by a sexist matriarchy to view all men in a particular way, are equally deprived of a harmonious relationship with men.

a reply to: FyreByrd

Really? You don't believe men can be raped? I can show you links to at least five cases if you'd like.

a reply to: Tangerine

I mean the less financially affluent a family is the more accepeptable it is for a women to work..
I mean that the less outside the city one ventures the more one will find women carrying a heavy load.
And, the more dangerous the home environment was the more women fighting to protect their homes were accepted.

a reply to: Tangerine

You have not backed up any of your ideas with proof, instead you are resorting to insulting people.

I know many people with learning disabilities who are quite intelligent, they just learn differently. The fact that you are using this term as a derogatory one shows me your lack of respect for others.

I ask again that you apologize, not only to me, but to the OP for harassing him and insulting him for having his POV. If you do not do so I will be reporting you to the mods for violating their terms and conditions:

Here's three you have violated multiple times.
15) Posting: harassing members
15a) offensive content: telling me that I am a fool and that I am desperate for male attention, and saying the OP has a learning disability, you are being hateful, harassing and abusive
16) behaviour: intolerant of others opinions, and behaving in a defamatory manner

a reply to: Tangerine

That is your opinion and that's fine, but not once have I violated one of the terms and conditions. And I have not once used a term that would be one the same level as 'racist'. I don't care how you believe you used the term 'learning disability' you used it in a derogatory manner. I am not seeking your attention here, I am standing up for my beliefs. Neither am I threatening you. I do not appreciate hateful comments towards myself. There are consequences to your actions and I am only following what ATS has laid out in their terms and conditions.

originally posted by: InfamousSiren
a reply to: Tangerine

That is your opinion and that's fine, but not once have I violated one of the terms and conditions. And I have not once used a term that would be one the same level as 'racist'. I don't care how you believe you used the term 'learning disability' you used it in a derogatory manner. I am not seeking your attention here, I am standing up for my beliefs. Neither am I threatening you. I do not appreciate hateful comments towards myself. There are consequences to your actions and I am only following what ATS has laid out in their terms and conditions.

Use whatever excuse you need to resort to another method when you can't hold your own in open discussion. I have made no attempt, whatsoever, to silence you by threat or any other method.

a reply to: Tangerine

You have tried to silence me and others by calling them names and making them feel dumb for having an opinion. I have noticed quite a few people on here who have backed out after you have told them they're wrong, or attacked their POV.

There is a difference, in my opinion, between an attack and discussion. A discussion adds ideas and furthers a conversation. An attack halts a topic and prevents new ideas from people to contribute to the thought process.

I am sorry that you took my opinions as offensive, but I never once tried to be purposely cruel towards you.

You have given me something to think on. If the mods do review this topic and find anything I say as a violation of the term and conditions, then I accept it. It is in their capable hands now.

Also I ask, if you claim to be a feminist, how is calling me names, bashing me and others treating me or anyone else as an equal to you? I feel as if I am being treated like my intellect is inferior to you, when my opinions are not being considered at all and I get told that I am someone who is a fool and 'desperate for men'

Ok Tangerine The thing is that we have been under an oppressive patriachy. This is not a reason to claim all patriachy is bad. Sociology 101; dont over-generalise. There is no gender in conscience. It is the righteous voice within able to distinguish between right and wrong. Humans are not naturally immoral, or unethical in my opinion, equally so patriachal leaders are not naturally sexist or oppressive towards women. There is a strory, behind every moral wrong in this world. Simply calling it patriachy, and conspiring to change dictionary definitions of what the word actually means to suit an overly simplistic sociological theory based on those very definitions, is wrong. Whether or not you are aware, you feminists have become agents of mind control brainwashing elites. So to this is say, # you, we are not you ginue pigs. I promise you, this insanity will end!!! No on declares war against the public conscience and gets away with it. Look for an accurate definition of patriarchy on google. You can't find one.