It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Is feminism sociologically unhelpfull? Or is it a true reflection of society?

page: 1
5
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 23 2014 @ 04:40 PM
link   
I was thinking about the feminist sociology teacher i once had i remember not being impressed by the feminist argument... on reflection i cant figure out if this is due to my ignorance / lack of experience in society, or if feminism is ignorance.

Please help me figure this out. I am a male, but I dont know what i am, a feminist or not a feminist, because i feel i don't have enough experience to judge whether its true or not. And i need more opinions because i feel its a very complicated topic worthy of debate. So please contribute your views.




posted on Nov, 23 2014 @ 04:50 PM
link   
a reply to: funkadeliaaaa

It's not complicated at all. Just tell the woman to get back in the kitchen and make you a sandwich and bring you a beer. Easy Peesy!

Kidding ladies! I'm kidding!



posted on Nov, 23 2014 @ 04:55 PM
link   
a reply to: funkadeliaaaa

Feminism is essential in returning civilization to a balance between the masculine and feminine forces and in ensuring that women have equal rights on a global scale. Until women in Saudi Arabia, one of our allies, have their liberties protected, feminism had best not go anywhere.

The credibility problems with feminism today are twofold in my opinion. Firstly, anyone can claim to be a feminist and often misandric women will take up the flag of feminism as a mask to hide their own prejudices. Secondly, modern feminists often seem to want to become masculine themselves. While I applaud their freedom in employing whatever personality style they choose, I'd like to see a strong feminine feminism that doesn't compromise the historic role of women as mothers and empathetic beings.

I think many feminists view childbirth as a cruel joke of nature instead of realizing how amazing it is and view motherhood as some incredibly servile annoyance instead of seeing it as one of the most important professions a human can engage in. We could always fertilize an egg with the genetic material from another egg, but we cannot produce new humans without ova. Women are essential to the continuation of the human species, and I don't think there are enough feminists who celebrate women for what they are.



posted on Nov, 23 2014 @ 04:56 PM
link   
a reply to: funkadeliaaaa

Hmmmm perhaps another thread is in order: "Are the majority of people experienced enough to judge the validity of views and perspectives they are confronted or indoctrinated with?"

But then, experienced at what? Using ones conscience?

Oh harold.



posted on Nov, 23 2014 @ 05:03 PM
link   
a reply to: Nechash

At last a man commenting on feminism that I can agree with. So many of this topic's threads just make me grind my teeth. Lots of men on this site expound on feminism but do not have a clue and just manage to muddy the waters and increase the divide.

Feminism is about equality. About women having the same rights, freedoms and benefits as men. I think there is reason to hope in western countries, but as long as women are circumcised, enslaved, forced to marry someone not of their choosing, subjected to rape and domestic abuse, feminism best remain.



posted on Nov, 23 2014 @ 05:07 PM
link   
I am all for woman being equal and I don't think there should be any bias anywhere.

But if all the feminists wanted was to be equal, why wasn't their crusade/movement called 'equalism' or 'equalists'?



posted on Nov, 23 2014 @ 05:10 PM
link   
Only thing I can contribute to this thread is that I wish I were born as a male.

Women have it pretty rough in many different ways that men rarely even have to think about.

I'm glad I brought boys into this world.



posted on Nov, 23 2014 @ 05:11 PM
link   

originally posted by: Sovaka
I am all for woman being equal and I don't think there should be any bias anywhere.

But if all the feminists wanted was to be equal, why wasn't their crusade/movement called 'equalism' or 'equalists'?


It was named by men to try to discredit the movement and women picked it up as a badge of honor.

I think you are thinking of Egalitarianism. People don't like THAT word because all people being equal is waaaaay too progressive to be taken seriously by conservatives.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Nov, 23 2014 @ 05:12 PM
link   

originally posted by: Nechash
a reply to: funkadeliaaaa

Feminism is essential in returning civilization to a balance between the masculine and feminine forces and in ensuring that women have equal rights on a global scale. Until women in Saudi Arabia, one of our allies, have their liberties protected, feminism had best not go anywhere.

The credibility problems with feminism today are twofold in my opinion. Firstly, anyone can claim to be a feminist and often misandric women will take up the flag of feminism as a mask to hide their own prejudices. Secondly, modern feminists often seem to want to become masculine themselves. While I applaud their freedom in employing whatever personality style they choose, I'd like to see a strong feminine feminism that doesn't compromise the historic role of women as mothers and empathetic beings.

I think many feminists view childbirth as a cruel joke of nature instead of realizing how amazing it is and view motherhood as some incredibly servile annoyance instead of seeing it as one of the most important professions a human can engage in. We could always fertilize an egg with the genetic material from another egg, but we cannot produce new humans without ova. Women are essential to the continuation of the human species, and I don't think there are enough feminists who celebrate women for what they are.


So beautifully and aptly put!

As a woman who had an abusive past, I made the mistake of identifying with the negative side of feminism (never male bashing, but not respecting great male qualities and dissing feminine ones) in order to heal. I hope anyone who has an issue with feminism realizes it does way more good than damage, and that those who take it to extremes may also be healing from a world of hurt.

I originally hoped my children would be girls so I could raise them strong, so ironically nature gave me two boys! I have since learned that girls already are strong enough and that it is boys who could do a world of good by learning compassion and nurture. These "female" qualities are lacking in large amounts in our society. And wherever femininity isn't valued it will always be lacking these.

To address this, our school system has a program for young kids called "roots of empathy" where kids work in gardens to learn that growth only occurs when nurtured. There was another program for slightly older kids where each class "adopts" a baby whose parent brings it in weekly and the kids note its development stages and really delight in "their" baby. I feel these types of programs promote feminism by empowering nurturing in our society and encourage a traditionally feminine side in all.

Feminism, itself, isn't the problem.



posted on Nov, 23 2014 @ 05:15 PM
link   
a reply to: AgentShillington

Ahh ok

Good to know, thanks.



posted on Nov, 23 2014 @ 05:23 PM
link   

originally posted by: MagesticEsoteric
Only thing I can contribute to this thread is that I wish I were born as a male.

Women have it pretty rough in many different ways that men rarely even have to think about.

I'm glad I brought boys into this world.


I hear ya! I really feel proud to have raised two boys who will go out in the world and make it a tiny bit safer and welcoming for their female peers. Both do normal boy stuff, football, skateboarding etc but are highly conscious.

One of my boys, in elementary school, called out a teacher for trying to insult the boys by calling them girls. He told the teacher that it was demeaning for girls to be used as an insult. He got sent to the principals office and it was one of the rare times I backed up a kid.

Boys can change the crappy world girls have to live in.



posted on Nov, 23 2014 @ 05:25 PM
link   

originally posted by: TDawgRex
a reply to: funkadeliaaaa

It's not complicated at all. Just tell the woman to get back in the kitchen and make you a sandwich and bring you a beer. Easy Peesy!

Kidding ladies! I'm kidding!


You'll get your sandwich and beer just as soon as I get a shoulder rub from all the cleaning I've been doing all day and a night on the town for dealing with all the drama that comes from raising the kids.



Easy peesy!
edit on 23-11-2014 by MagesticEsoteric because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2014 @ 05:35 PM
link   
a reply to: Nechash

I wholeheartedly agree with the idea that women should have equal rights, but i feel thats a seperate issue to the more complicated sociological and historical perspectives ive come accross. I dont know, i think feminism has its own narrative and it can be a very valid and insightful one. For example, when working class people won the right to vote, why were women excluded? These are certainly important questions, and are evidence of the kind of rigid patriarchal society Feminists are speaking of.... So ok, i think i am a feminist... Thanks for helping me figure this out.
edit on 23-11-2014 by funkadeliaaaa because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2014 @ 05:40 PM
link   
a reply to: funkadeliaaaa

You'd be surprised at what you can learn from Googling the History of Feminism... or else you can start a thread of ATS and who knows where it will go?


originally posted by: Nechash
I think many feminists view childbirth as a cruel joke of nature instead of realizing how amazing it is and view motherhood as some incredibly servile annoyance instead of seeing it as one of the most important professions a human can engage in.


That isn't necessarily about being a feminist. Many WOMEN simply don't want to have children, regardless of their stance on feminism. Not wanting to have children doesn't come from feminism, it comes from ... well, not wanting to have children. It's the same with men. Some just don't want to have kids. Just because a woman CAN have kids doesn't mean she must.


I don't think there are enough feminists who celebrate women for what they are.


And what are they?

Your statements here sound dangerously close to relegating women to be the "child bearers" as their most important contribution. I'm not sure why bearing children is such an honorable thing to do. I mean, if one WANTS to have kids, that's great. But if a woman has other goals that are more important to her, why should she be made to feel badly for not viewing motherhood as some ultimate and amazing goal?

When guys don't want to have kids, no one says a word, really, but women are "supposed" to want to be a mother. It's just procreating. Every species does it. It's not really that hard to do.



posted on Nov, 23 2014 @ 05:48 PM
link   
men and women are not eaqual and that leaves a gap for social torment both ways. we in the usa are dominated by the femine but do not realize it. the thought that we need equality for women only puts men further into supression. there are mascline dominated societies but they do not look like the usa.



posted on Nov, 23 2014 @ 05:49 PM
link   
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic


It's just procreating. Every species does it. It's not really that hard to do.


You mean for men! I think many mothers, and fathers, would disagree with you about that. To the rest of what you say i think i agreed.



posted on Nov, 23 2014 @ 05:55 PM
link   
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Not at all. I wouldn't ever say anyone must reproduce. I'm not. I would never wish to reduce women to the status of being brood mares for the state. That is the real problem of discussing issues like this. People are vastly too emotionally invested and the slightest wording on a single sentence can "trigger" someone. Plus, many people feel that men have no room at all whatsoever to comment on women's issues, so some of those types will be offended no matter what a man says.

What I am saying is that if a woman chooses to be a mother and to raise children instead of focusing on a career, many people who claim to be feminists are critical of that saying that she's sacrificing her own career for that. I'm saying child rearing is a career, and stay at home moms should be proud of leading their children into a better future, not that all women must be mothers or that motherhood is the best contribution they can make. It is just one of many.



posted on Nov, 23 2014 @ 05:58 PM
link   
a reply to: Iamschist


I think there is reason to hope in western countries, but as long as women are circumcised, enslaved, forced to marry someone not of their choosing, subjected to rape and domestic abuse, feminism best remain.
All of these things happen to men too.


But i agree with this:

Feminism is about equality. About women having the same rights, freedoms and benefits as men.



posted on Nov, 23 2014 @ 06:01 PM
link   
I find the way feminism has been hijacked to be counterproductive. It does not concentrate on the positive aspects and abilities of women, rather, it concentrates on the negative aspects (real, presumed or imagined) of men. At the same time it tries to make women more like men and men more like women. That's manipulated social engineering, that's not striving for equality. Feminism deals with men much like the triplets in Minority Report, it's all about pre-crime, feminists think it will happen therefore it will or did happen, with no reason, basis in reality or facts to levy a pre-punishment.

It doesn't help that the media promotes the tripe and vitriol of the (and I will use the term) "feminazis," that group of militant and radicalized feminists that are no better than the "tools" in ISIS or any other fanatical and overzealous group of intolerant idiots. It also does not help that governments promote ridiculous "quota" systems for women and especially women of races other than Caucasion. The quota system, say in research grants and new business openings is skewed to punish experienced men (holding back grants), while promoting inexperienced or under-qualified women. WTF, we want business that work so people get employed.

Personally, I find quotas insulting to women and others, it tells me they are not smart enough to compete without a "crutch." But hey, the government have to keep us divided somehow, otherwise if we take our "eyes" off each other, we may actually "see" what they are doing to all of us.

Now, I love women and I am not saying that all feminists are feminazis, but I expect (from experience and I know and have met a number of them) there is a small percentage in the range of between 5-10% of feminists that really are militant, radicalized man-haters, these people are the problem. It is the case of the tail waging the dog and not much different than the 2-3% gay population controlling sex-ed in public schools. I was under the impression that in a democracy, supposedly the majority controlled direction, not the lobbyists. However, that is not the case, radicalized feminists and the LGBT crowd which make up possibly 5-7% of the population are controlling direction and that's simply wrong. Feminists need to have a voice just like everyone else, but equality is not making their voice louder at the expense of all the others.

I had a very smart grade 4 female teacher once tell me that, "Blowing out everyone elses candle will not make yours glow brighter, it just makes less light in the room."

Cheers - Dave
edit on 11/23.2014 by bobs_uruncle because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2014 @ 06:10 PM
link   
Men do not have their penis removed, circumcision for them means a tiny bit of nonessential flesh. For a woman it means no pleasure from sex. Men, to my knowledge are not kidnapped and turned into sexual slaves. The other things do happen to men and they are deplorable, however women suffer disproportionately more incidences.




originally posted by: funkadeliaaaa
a reply to: Iamschist


I think there is reason to hope in western countries, but as long as women are circumcised, enslaved, forced to marry someone not of their choosing, subjected to rape and domestic abuse, feminism best remain.
All of these things happen to men too.


But i agree with this:

Feminism is about equality. About women having the same rights, freedoms and benefits as men.



new topics

top topics



 
5
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join