Cleveland cop kills child

It might not surprise you to hear that the boy was black.

That's the bit I was waiting for !

seems to me that the police are making up the reports as they go along like "he went for his gun" and the guy turned around after running away and decide to charge a police offer from a distance who was holding a gun and shoot him dead.

Not good and if its war they want then I think they will get just that

a reply to: Brotherman

The cop murdered a child because the cop is a mental midget. He is going to be charged I am sure.

One black guy about a year ago was face down on the floor with his hands handcuffed behind his back and the officer shoot him dead in cold blood and got away with the murder by using the excuse that he thought he had pulled out is tazer guns and shot him with that and not his colt.

You was saying

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: threeeyesopen

What happened to warning shots indeed. Police haven't used warning shots in God know how long. Why? Because that warning shot is going to land somewhere. So where do you suggest they fire the warning shot? In the air? What goes up comes down. Into the ground? The ground doesn't automatically stop rounds, they can bounce just like everything else.

As for body armor, are you seriously implying that because they have body armor on, they should allow people to shoot first just so they can be super duper clear of what their intentions are? Body armor is body armor, not "bullet proof."

Finally, as for disarming somebody: that assumes being within arm's reach. I have yet to receive any training that says I should run up on somebody who's reported as possibly/likely armed and get within arm's reach of them. If that's how you were trained, good on you. Doubt this officer was trained to do it though.

I think the fact that it was a child should have given an inclination that the threat was less than if it was say an adult male. Wether the cops knew it was a child isn't 100 percent clear I suppose..however don't most cops drive at least close enough to a suspect to see the details of the situation ? How far away from the suspect were they when they opened fire ? There are so many questions that will or will not be answered too late. The training I received is the same as anyone else can take, it's called Krav Maga.

The reason I'm confident to use it and don't fear running in I suppose is due to my lifestyle choices over the years. There is usually also the option to take cover and analyze the situation before opening fire..again a question that may not ever be answered or answered too late.

Also body armour should at least stop one bullet if it is not defective..no it doesn't make you invincible but it does give you better protection than most people you will be encountering.

All in all the outcomes are always the same..high stress and not enough self control..yes it's easier said than done but that's why we have police to handle these situations. They are supposed to be better than us, at least that's what I was told in college when I was studying to be an officer, that you are expected to be superior to the average person in every way

a reply to: VirusGuard

Wonder how Bill Hicks would have described this action and other police killings of innocent people after all listen to what he said about arming small countries....

Done that now we are militarizing the police....



YOU all saw it he had a gun......

I have an airsoft Baretta replica that you couldnt tell the difference between a real or the fake one, and the LEO at the distance probably couldnt tell either. He saw the kid reach for it and instinct took over. I dont find blame in the officer.

I would say that the kid might had thought that the cops was playing but it does sound as believable as the cop said that the boy tried to kill him with a toy gun

You gota ask yourself if half the police officers are not taking the drugs they confiscate when you hear what's going on in the USA today.

a reply to: IceHappy

Yes I must watch some of the late bills work but you do know, he does look a bit like our friend Alex to me

I'm not sure what the inner city culture is like in Cleveland, but where I'm from (New Orleans) a 12 year old kid will shoot you just as quick as a grown adult. Until people come to terms with this unfortunate reality, nothing is ever gonna change for the better.

a reply to: threeeyesopen

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not sure i embedded those correctly but gee not like children have been turned into armies and used to kill people much older then they are before being a child is not a get out of dangerous situation free card

and your suggestion that cops should have to be shot first(they have body armor) before returning fire is laughable and something that is not likely to happen any time soon if ever ,and on body armor while not really relevant to this case cops aren't the only ones with body armor these days i my self have three sets ranging from actually useful to Halloween costume level and just like being a kid is not a get out of dangerous situation card neither is wearing body armor always effective

originally posted by: Greven
a reply to: network dude

He was a child. Kids aren't even held accountable for their actions by law, but are we to expect a kid this young to have perfect decision making to avoid getting shot? Why do we expect better decision making from a child than from a paid police officer?

The officer was surely wearing a vest, and obviously had his gun drawn since he shot the kid before the kid ever could have pointed the gun at the officer.

Since we are just relying on the police version of events, suppose one of the officers said to drop the gun? In order to do that, the child would have had to reach for the gun, no? They can give conflicting orders, and picking the right one is apparently the only way not to get shot and killed.

I agree, the kid most likely was getting the gun to give to the cop. One thing we see more and more is the instant escalation of force from cops. Today they fire before they even know what the situation is all about.

a reply to: threeeyesopen

A kid isn't a threat? Have you not seen any of the pictures of ISIS and their child fighters? Been to Iraq? Afghanistan?

Krav Maga - contact combat, or close xombat if you prefer. Ergo, an up close and personal encounter. I don't believe the IDF teaches their people to close with and go hands on with people who are armed, especially when they (the IDF) are also armed and have distance. Officers are not trained to drive all the way up into a situation. You drive close enough to give yourself somewhere to retreat to, and far enough away that you can exit your vehicle safely.

Yes, LEOs should be better than civilians. LEOs are still only going to be as good as their training. I imagine his training was that when verbal commands are ignored and the subject makes a move towards a weapon, it's safer for everybody, not just the LEO, to react swiftly and not test out one's body armor. Which, coincidentally, will likely stop most, but not all, handgun rounds from penetrating the body, but still hits hard enough to break bone and bruise organs. Just because it stops the round doesn't mean it's a comfortable experience.

a reply to: WilsonWilson

Any of you ever thing that in some quarters of the cities, mostly, are areas where never a kind word is uttered word about the police? In short, they are seen as the enemy. Who's at fault, the police or the people of that area with their views on what law and order should be according to their street credo? Recent news pictures of the last few days which show young children of the ISIS (or whatever the call themselves) training with AK-47s is a key to understanding what has happened, early indoctrination sets the tide.

The code of a gentle society has been broke by more severe attitudes that are frequently acted out when the gentler side collides with the subculture which has few ways to express its anger at society in general except by violence. That is the situation with which the police have had to deal with since the so-called civil rights blossomed into mandated law.

Unfortunately, civil rights was not enough to free the black man from his deep, long-suppressed anger. He had been given the liberty to be equal, but he found that despite official job programs that favored them in jobs and education in the general society, true acceptance was true missing from the larger culture. Couple into the problem is that many members on the other side of the culture--distinct from the new laws of society--wanted the black man to stay down-trodden and subservient. Unfortunately, that was the clear-cut, self-evident case. The blacks were at an enormous disadvantage in culture when it came into stepping into a equal partnership with the every-day American. And Whites had their own problems accepting the culture of the new arrivals. It remains a problem for both sides.

Things ARE changing, but the police, working always with the gritty side of society, have learned a direct point of view from their position to hold about any black man in mind as some sort of suspect. It is an unhealthy standoff. We have multiple, dynamic causes for the black man's position and one physical effect from the police in any case (of black or white) disrespect for the law, shot first if threatened. For in their book, human actions in a situation where they are called to intercede comes down to obeying the voice of the law. If you don't respond by voice or action as ordered, black man, white or otherwise, prepare to suffer the consequences of your action (or inaction). The black culture being alienated from the white culture tends to quickly turn to their inner anger and all too frequent become the ones paying the heaviest price. And this is how a 12-year-old black boy with a toy gun gets cut down by the police.

Tragic, but not surprising. Police will shoot anyone in any situation. Orange tip or not, one way or the other, this officer would have shot this child. And now he can be forever known as a child killer.

www.nleomf.org...

Cincinnati Police Officer Kevin Crayon was killed by one of the youngest cop killers on record. He observed the boy driving a vehicle in the parking lot of a convenience store. When the juvenile could not produce a driver's license, he attempted to flee the scene with the officer's arm stuck inside the car. Officer Crayon was dragged to his death, but before he died he was able to fire one fatal shot, killing the 12-year-old suspect. While we may like to give our young people the benefit of the doubt, the truth is that some teenagers are sometimes the most heinous criminals of them all. Clifford Dicker was a 14-year veteran of the Wythe County (VA) Sheriff's Office when he went to serve a juvenile detention warrant on December 6, 1994. The youth he was attempting to arrest had other ideas, though. He took a rifle and shot Deputy Dicker twice. Then, leaving no doubt about how ruthless juvenile killers can be, he took the Deputy's service revolver and shot him a third time execution style in the head.

so yeah kids that young can be killers and pretending otherwise is a fallacy.underestimating people gets you killed more so if your a police officer and if you have seen the bulk of my posts here im far from a police apologist to use the term i just see this as a crappy situation but no mallace or evil intent from the officer in question

originally posted by: RalagaNarHallas
www.nleomf.org...

Cincinnati Police Officer Kevin Crayon was killed by one of the youngest cop killers on record. He observed the boy driving a vehicle in the parking lot of a convenience store. When the juvenile could not produce a driver's license, he attempted to flee the scene with the officer's arm stuck inside the car. Officer Crayon was dragged to his death, but before he died he was able to fire one fatal shot, killing the 12-year-old suspect. While we may like to give our young people the benefit of the doubt, the truth is that some teenagers are sometimes the most heinous criminals of them all. Clifford Dicker was a 14-year veteran of the Wythe County (VA) Sheriff's Office when he went to serve a juvenile detention warrant on December 6, 1994. The youth he was attempting to arrest had other ideas, though. He took a rifle and shot Deputy Dicker twice. Then, leaving no doubt about how ruthless juvenile killers can be, he took the Deputy's service revolver and shot him a third time execution style in the head.

so yeah kids that young can be killers and pretending otherwise is a fallacy.underestimating people gets you killed more so if your a police officer and if you have seen the bulk of my posts here im far from a police apologist to use the term i just see this as a crappy situation but no mallace or evil intent from the officer in question

Not a very clever post.

Its a historical fact that children have killed. Whether that be in wars, individually, child killers, school shootings or otherwise. I don't think anyone seriously thinks otherwise or needs to be told the obvious. Its immaterial. Policing has always since its inception, policed within that same context, whether now or a thosand years ago, every year up until now, children have killed.

To suggest that somehow cops and robbers, cowboys and indians played by children the world over, suddenly needs to be analysed anew, beggers belief.

There has always been an 'ISIS' or its equivalent, there's always been child killers - yet until recently, polce have been able to make the simple distinction between a toy weapon in the hands of a child and one of the many types of killers that have wandered the world in all shapes and sizes, ages and colours since the concept of policing was invented.

a reply to: spacedog1973

I don't think it was supposed to be clever. Just 3 posts before yours on the front page someone asked if a cop had ever been killed by a 12 year old. There's his answer. No cleverness required.

originally posted by: MarsKingAQuestion
a reply to: Greven

Starred and Flag!

Yet another victim in the police war on civilians.

No! The child was the victim of a case of poor management skills by his parent[s], who let him run around a park with a faulty toy gun [no orange tip!!!] possibly pointing it menacingly at anybody in the area.

It is sad that the child lost his life but I don't think the police officer is at any fault here and seems to have followed protocol.

If the parents had properly policed their child then this unfortunate police officer wouldn't have had to shoot him!

Should parents deeply consider this outcome as a highly possible occurrence happening, i.e. their kid may get shot and possibly killed by cops, IF they buy their child a replica toy weapon

What the actual? First of all, I don't understand how anyone can condone the police shooting a CHILD. Espcially if the child was not pointing the gun at anyone (he picked it up, put in his waist band) and only reached for the gun when the cop allegedly gave him orders to do whatever it is he actually ordered him to do. Who knows if the kid even had the TIME to THINK and REALIZE what was going on before the cop shot him full of lead.

CHILDREN DO NOT HAVE THE PROBLEM SOLVING SKILLS ADULTS HAVE. They're completely different creatures. Their brains don't work like ours because they are CHILDREN. They're not mature, physically or mentally! Also, the parents may have not had ANY IDEA he had it! He was outside with friends...there are still normal parents that let their kids play with their friends outside, like normal people should do.

So, think about THAT when making these ridic statements. Btw, the last sentence of your post makes no sense...just a wordy attempt to sound intelligent.

a reply to: Shamrock6

But did he REALLY have to shoot to KILL him? This is a CHILD, not an adult. I think a lot of people aren't realizing this. I have NO idea how this cop could look at a kid, reach for his weapon and then shoot to kill him.

That thought just makes me sick.

a reply to: lovebeck

LEOs aren't trained to shoot to kill. They're trained to shoot to stop. As in stop the threat. Aim for the middle of the biggest target presented. Anybody who suggests shooting the gun out of somebody's hand, shooting an arm, or shooting a leg, or whatever else, simply has no concept of armed conflict. And as has been pointed out repeatedly throughout the post, a child can kill just as easily as an adult. A LEO has to go with the information he has when circumstances present themselves. For better or worse, the officers weren't given all the information they should've been. I would blame dispatch for not relating all pertinent information before I'd crucify the officer for reacting.

As for the other (not lovebeck's) comment that he should've been able to see it was a toy gun....have you actually seen the gun? It's identical to a real gun. Should he have waited until it was pointed at him to check the actual diameter of the barrel? Wait till he was fired at so he could see what happened?

originally posted by: Bone75
I'm not sure what the inner city culture is like in Cleveland, but where I'm from (New Orleans) a 12 year old kid will shoot you just as quick as a grown adult. Until people come to terms with this unfortunate reality, nothing is ever gonna change for the better.

....seems to me toy guns sold for kids games may just be a bad idea.....and the way the law is these days i am sure a lawyer could argue that the company that makes these "realistic" looking guns culpable of a crime...

at least if toy guns were disappeared we could take the whole "the cops did it on purpose" out of the equation