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sorry for another grovit movie thread...but 'predestination'..a review

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posted on Dec, 1 2014 @ 05:46 PM
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I'd like to add my thoughts and would love to hear if this is a plausible scenario... SPOILER ALERT

Mr. Robertson is also Hawke, John, Jane, the Baby, and the Fizzle Bomber. Mr. Robertson was essentially created in the first scene explosion which caused him to require facial reconstruction. You don't see Robertson until after Hawke is looking into the mirror at his new face.

Robertson knew the whole time what was going on with Hawke and why he allowed Hawke to make "illegal jumps". He was allowing it all to happen because he had attained the level in the Temporal Agency to let Hawke (his other iteration) do so to potentially try to break the time loop.

Any thoughts on this one? Just another way to think about this great movie. I really enjoyed it.




posted on Dec, 1 2014 @ 05:57 PM
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a reply to: pmccoy

i dont think that works.
he is a separate person all together.
hawke mentions to jane in a scene that robertson is in 1985 at the moment.

im having a hard time formulating my argument at the moment because my daughter is jumping all over me..

better than some of the theories i have seen on imdb trying to explain it though...

i just dont think so...



posted on Dec, 1 2014 @ 06:37 PM
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Cooool.

I've read the thread and am so looking out for this movie. Luckily my memory is shot to #### so the spoilers won't bother me.

But then maybe i'll just forget i heard of this film at all?

Gah!



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 09:21 AM
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Movie was great just watched it. Had hawke picked as the same person as the guy in bar though pretty early on though...

The only thing that bugs me is the ending... He kills himself, then stops the bombing, thus he lives and witnesses all the other stuff in the newspaper clippings and then decides to go back and stop it all by using his time machine and going back to 1975 and then... Well that's where I'm stumped... He goes to the laundry and meets himself and then if he gets shot by himself, well if it's predestination then how does a version of him get to be the bomber and fight with himself in the later scenes etc?

Or... In this new timeline, he convinces himself to not shoot him, and then he does go thru with the bombing, then the other him stays with the older version of him and then he tells the him when he is older in the future he needs to go back to complete the loop, and that is the version of him that is in the laundry that gets shot and the double time line loop is repeated....

And now my head hurts .....



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 09:24 AM
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Wow... Actually that makes the ending even sadder, since that means that the hawke that shoots is predestined to be the bomber, but the old hawke that is shot is never actually ever the bomber... He is the innocent one....

Oh the irony



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 09:40 AM
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originally posted by: Mark2036


The only thing that bugs me is the ending... He kills himself, then stops the bombing,..


he kills himself but stops nothing because he becomes the bomber
there is no other timeline either.
1 time loop. no line
have to think of it as a continuous circle of time



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 10:22 AM
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Ah, but then where did the newspaper clipping come from if not from a timeline with no bombing?



a reply to: Grovit



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 10:30 AM
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a reply to: Mark2036

small things change..
those were clippings about bombings. just not the same bombings that hawke and robertson were talking about earlier in the movie.
during the middle of the movie as he was jumping the dates on the bombings were changing, but they still happened.

so the fizzle bomber that hawke killed still blew # up, just not the same stuff.
thats what i gather.

the baby will always be jane who will always become john who will always become the bomber but events can change.

of course i could be wrong but thats what i got from it along from reading about the movie and the original short



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 10:32 AM
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originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: Grovit

OK, This is one of the best time travel movies ever made. HOLY CRAP that was good. So many levels, so much to consider, I am delightfully occupied in thought.

Its a must watch.



You should watch Primer if you haven't already... There are multiple levels to that time travel plot, the bulk of which need to be inferred as they are not implicitly shown in the movie... The mother of all head trips.

Another awesome time travel flick with a predestination consistent time loop plot is Timecrimes (it's Spanish but don't let that put you off)


edit on 4-12-2014 by Mark2036 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 10:35 AM
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he would have broken the circle if he had not killed himself, but he did. hence the predestination.
he will always kill himself.
the young jon will always hunt the fizzle bomber. john will always kill the fizzle bomber who will then always turn into the bomber.
only way to break the circle is to not kill the bomber, but he always will.

also, we will never fully 'figure it out' cause we cant. thats the paradox



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 10:36 AM
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a reply to: Mark2036

i will check out primer.
i think predestination deals with the time loop better than other movies with that plot, like looper for example.

still though, my favorite movie about time travel is 12 moneys...by far



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 10:58 AM
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originally posted by: Grovit
a reply to: Mark2036

small things change..
those were clippings about bombings. just not the same bombings that hawke and robertson were talking about earlier in the movie.
during the middle of the movie as he was jumping the dates on the bombings were changing, but they still happened.

so the fizzle bomber that hawke killed still blew # up, just not the same stuff.
thats what i gather.

the baby will always be jane who will always become john who will always become the bomber but events can change.

of course i could be wrong but thats what i got from it along from reading about the movie and the original short



Wait the date of the bombing changed? I missed that :p

I still am sticking with the double time loop theory as I remember old man Hawke saying in his speech to young Hawke that all the events in the clippings occur because the bombing doesn't happen, inferring that he has lived thru a timeline where the bombing is stopped, but he regrets stopping it (regrets shooting the bomber) because it causes all the tragedies he was warned about, but more importantly because he lives his life alone and lonely. So he goes back to be the bomber. He then meets his young self but convinces him to love him not shoot him. Then he goes and does the bombing (as the old man, you can see the beard in the fight scene after he sets the bomb). The young him and old him then live happily ever after together, with him telling the younger self the story of his life, and how he shot the older him in his timeline. The older one then dies of old age, and then the younger one out of love when he is older, knows he needs to go back in time to the laundry to pretend he is the bomber, to sacrifice himself to his love and start the process over. Only through hawke1 being the bomber he doesn't want to be, and hawke2 being the sacrificial martyr, can they ensure that they can live a period of life together as two separate people with different memories for a period within their looping single life.

It's almost poetic .... If I'm wrong then meh... I don't wanna be right ;p



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 11:03 AM
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Coherence
Timecrimes

Both good, head trippy "time" movies
edit on 4/12/14 by blupblup because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 11:03 AM
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originally posted by: Grovit
a reply to: Mark2036

i will check out primer.
i think predestination deals with the time loop better than other movies with that plot, like looper for example.

still though, my favorite movie about time travel is 12 moneys...by far


Yep, 12 Monkeys is one of my top flicks too
. Looper.... Don't get me started on Looper
heheh



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 11:22 AM
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originally posted by: Mark2036

Wait the date of the bombing changed? I missed that :p
yeah. hawke has a clipping of one of the bombings and the date on it changes in one of the scenes...i dont mean it actually changes during the scene. i mean in one scene it is a certain date and in another it is different

I still am sticking with the double time loop theory as I remember old man Hawke saying in his speech to young Hawke that all the events in the clippings occur because the bombing doesn't happen
stick to it all you want. youre wrong my friend...thats the point of the movie. it is predestined to happen. the only way he 'could' break the loop is to not kill the bomber but he always will kill the bomber...also, when the bomber is talking to hawke he is showing him the clippings and telling him how this or that didnt happen and he saved x amounts of lives because he blew up a building for example


, He then meets his young self but convinces him to love him not shoot him. Then he goes and does the bombing (as the old man, you can see the beard in the fight scene after he sets the bomb). The young him and old him then live happily ever after together, with him telling the younger self the story of his life, and how he shot the older him in his timeline.
nope. it is a predestination paradox....thats the point of the movie...youre inventing these situations to fit what you want to happen but thats not how it went down



It's almost poetic .... If I'm wrong then meh... I don't wanna be right ;p


please dont take me the wrong way...this is not a knock but you are wrong.
youre trying to create scenarios to make this movie make sense, but it wont make complete sense, because there is a paradox.
i have read through the discussion on imdb and others are doing the same thing. some people are talking about the baby as being a clone or genetically engineered by robertson.
trying to make things fit...they wont fully fit though because the movie is about a paradox.

i dont know how else to explain it....

go to wiki and read the synopsis of the original short that the movie was based on and you will see.
i mean, you should believe the author of the story, right?

they did not live happily ever after. he did not stop anything.
only way to break the loop is to not kill the bomber, but he will always kill the bomber, and he will always become the bomber



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 09:59 PM
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Ha this is fun. So to follow thru to the logical conclusion in your theory, hawke kills the old man bomber, then he.... A few days later becomes the bomber (I.e a young hawke bomber?). But the earlier scene saw the bomber as an old man with beard fighting young hawke.

or do you mean an older him comes back in time to do the bombing, and then after the bombing he goes back again to laundry to get shot? So the old man hawke shot had already from his own perspective just committed the bombing already.

However, If you follow through on the perspective of hawke in your theory that the bombing always occurs in a single loop, then when does he see the effects of no bombing? Where does he acquire the newspaper clipping of alternate "no bombing" world?

I love how time travel movie paradoxes make a story more interesting with questions like this. I know a lot of movies just put in paradoxes and don't worry about the implications, but I think this movie, like time crimes, primer and 12 monkeys, put a bit more thought into it.

Also, I think the movie took a bit of artistic license and does not exactly correlate with the short story plot. I.e the bombing sub plot was not in the original story, just the main loop of giving birth to her/himself.




edit on 4-12-2014 by Mark2036 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2014 @ 10:18 PM
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originally posted by: Mark2036
Ha this is fun.
yes it is

So to follow thru to the logical conclusion in your theory, hawke kills the old man bomber, then he.... A few days later becomes the bomber (I.e a young hawke bomber?). But the earlier scene saw the bomber as an old man with beard fighting young hawke.
well, its not a theory. thats what happened. i dont know if it was a few days but hawke does become the bomber. and yes, we did see a scene with hawke fighting the bomber. it was jane though(still hawke) before she got burned and had surgery which made her look like hawke

or do you mean an older him comes back in time to do the bombing,
no, thats not what i mean


However, If you follow through on the perspective of hawke in your theory that the bombing always occurs in a single loop, then when does he see the effects of no bombing? Where does he acquire the newspaper clipping of alternate "no bombing" world?
i dont know where he gets the clippings from and it is not a no bombing world. bombings still happen. the bomber tells hawke in the laundry that he blew things up



Also, I think the movie took a bit of artistic license and does not exactly correlate with the short story plot. I.e the bombing sub plot was not in the original story, just the main loop of giving birth to her/himself.



of course the movie took liberties. its based on the short story, not an exact copy.

its fun to talk it through and part of the fun is that it can not be totally figured out.
again, thats the paradox.
thats the point of the entire movie

en.wikipedia.org...

The paradox occurs when a time traveler is caught in a loop of events that "predestines" or "predates" him or her to travel back in time. The paradox suggests that those people who travel back in time would have no way of changing a situation.

^^^^it will always play out like it did in the movie



posted on Dec, 17 2014 @ 12:18 AM
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Wow, insane film this was. Here's a timeline diagram to help explain the events of the movie:
digestivepyrotechnics.blogspot.com...
edit on 17-12-2014 by tivep because: incorrect formating



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