A question for everyone regarding immigration

a reply to: Daedal

Which is what I said. If you dont see a judge you dont get charged with the second or multiple reentries. You COULD, but a border patrol agent prefers to keep patrolling and just turns people back if its possible.

Get caught a few times or twice when you are already well inside the US and you are screwed. You serve some time in some cases and THEN are deported. OR you are deported and serve the time in your country depending on the legal situation (treaties) between that country and the US.

a reply to: Ceeker63

No, that's cool. I understand that. But should we punish those who couldn't think freely for themselves? Should we label them as criminals and hinder their ability to enter legally when they are older?

a reply to: tadaman
Where is the felony part?

a reply to: auroraaus

couldn't think freely for themselves?

what?

a reply to: Phage

Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:

"Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has committed a federal crime."

After they are processed the first time for committing a federal crime, what they sign and commit to legally is what makes it a felony every time after. Like I said you can hunt that down and read it up all you like. Dont be lazy Phage. I did what I said I wouldnt. You can do some work too.

a reply to: tadaman
Yes. I provided a link earlier. It is a federal misdemeanor. Not a felony.
After deportation, not "return". It becomes a felony.

a reply to: Phage

Like I said, you can hunt down what is signed by them in order to release them. That is a legally binding agreement in which they commit to being charged with a felony for a second or multiple entries.

What you posted is referring to a first offence. NOT multiple offences. Even I said that a first offence isnt a felony. (which is why my wife didnt have to get a pardon) Phage, I have been in a legal immigration battle for almost 2 years. Been dealing with it for almost 8

a reply to: tadaman

What you posted is referring to a first offence. NOT multiple offences.

That applies to what you posted as well. Perhaps you can elucidate.

a reply to: tadaman

I agree. But my point is how do we know that those who are determined illegal or undocumented are not working legally and contributing.

I think some people believe that undocumented persons are just here doing nothing, when in fact a lot of them apply for work authorization and contribute into the same safety nets as you or l.

And the thing is, a person could be on order for deportation and receive work privileges and 5 or ten years later be deported and receive nothing back for what they conteibuted, and yes it does happen.

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: auroraaus

couldn't think freely for themselves?

what?

was talking about the unborn and children etc, dragged into this mess.

Now I am sounding like Helen Lovejoy :\

a reply to: Daedal

Sure it happens. They should enter legally like all other places on earth require to avoid that.

Its not like what is being argued is in practice ANY where else. This is not legally or logically viable. Most countries (to not say all ignorantly) dont even LET you work after an illegal entry.

a reply to: Phage

Perhaps YOU could elucidate. I have spent countless hours pouring through immigration BS in real life. WANT TO PROVE ME WRONG?...then do so. YOU show me where it says that multiple offences are not a felony and that in order to secure release they they dont have to agree to not commit that federal crime again or be charged with a felony and blah blah blah fines blah...as a consequence.

I wont buy AND sell this thing too.

a reply to: auroraaus

LOL no worries.

I get what you are saying now.

a reply to: tadaman

Its not like what is being argued is in practice ANY where else. This is not legally or logically viable. Most (to not say all ignorantly) dont even LET you work after an illegal entry.

Then what do all these millions of people do?
vimeo.com...

a reply to: tadaman

WANT TO PROVE ME WRONG?...then do so

How would you suggest I do so? Asking one to prove a negative is sort of a cop out. Laws don't often say you can do something, they usually say you can't.

a reply to: Phage

well I know a little about immigration in the EU as well.

It so happens that there is currently a mass exodus from Spain, Portugal and Italy among others to Nordic countries due to the economic crisis and the stabiliy of the work force there.

If you enter one of these countries illegally where the average worker is treated with respect and gets all sorts of benefits and guarantees they will tell you to seek charity. Its almost impossible to get work even if you go legally.

The reason...because if they didnt they couldnt keep the same standard for their people. These are socialist bastions mind you.

I know people who tried their luck and had to leave to Ireland or the UK because they were not offered work without the proper paper work which they could not legally get.

A work visa is processed BEFORE you leave. Just showing up is not legally covered. If you lose your job or the work you were hired for ends, you need to go back home in most cases and apply for a new visa. Its hard to stay in country and keep working while you are trying to get a work visa.

a reply to: tadaman
You said this:

t countries (to not say all ignorantly) dont even LET you work after an illegal entry.

They don't allow illegal immigrants to work? They just give them a free ride? That must not be a very popular position. I wonder how that would go over here.

a reply to: Phage

What free ride? You cant walk into another country's social security office or unemployment office and say HELP.

You work off the books or you starve. Many just turn to prostitution or drugs or under the table work. Why do you think there are so many immigrant sex workers in the EU?

a reply to: Phage
I told you what the law says you CANT DO and what the consequence is if you do and what it is classified as. If you disagree, dont be lazy, show me where it says that multiple entries has a different consequence and classification, thats how.

HERE PHAGE....READ UP.
wiki.answers.com...

a reply to: tadaman

Thanks!

I do love hearing both sides of the arguement, any argument really. But I do like looking at the other circumstances too, to help build up the picture... because everything isn't black or white.

In australia, we have the whole "stop the boats!" thing, which our Dear Leader kindly pointed out in his G20 opening summit.

I grew up in an immigrant family, and for generations since 1745 have been displaced and moved along by military, state and economics. We came here in aus in the 1980s. Yes, we waited years before we were given the green light.

I had the privilege of knowing and being friends with lots of other immigrant children growing up, illegal arrivals and not. One of my oldest and dearest friends spent most of her youth from refugee camp, to refugee camp. She's now a psychologist and supports other immigrants, illegal or not, because the crossing is hard, and hits hardest on developing children.

My next door neighbours are "boat" arrivals from Afghanistan. They shifted between detention centres and have finally been allowed to stay. And I tell you what, those young lads are such sweet boys. I worry for them because they are so far from home, and their parents and siblings. But the local community and resource centres do what they can to help. Just recently they knocked on my door to give my son and I a plate of rice pudding, to celebrate the 1st of Muharaam. was confused, because I thought that meant no sweets, but shows my ignorance. One of the lads has finished his senior schooling as is now working as a brickie, and it made me wince seeing the wounds on his hands.

But this is here, not there in America.

And it's not Mexicans.

a reply to: auroraaus

I do see that. Like I said before many if not most of my personal relationships (family friends and coworkers) are immigrants...legal and not. Hell, I met my wife when she was an illegal alien.

I dont hate them, or have a grudge or vendetta to speak of.

Things are just what they are. We cant pretend that morality justifies illegality. They arent stealing an apple to curb hunger. They are trying to usurp a life style.

And its not a victim-less crime. Everyone who tries to do things the right way has to deal with eternal waiting lists and huge bureaucracy thanks to the back log of cases thanks to these people. It divides families in the mean time while they go through that and forces people to alter theirs and their families lives to deal with it.

Its also wrong on so many levels to the citizens the government has a responsibility to first and foremost beyond all other peoples.

Have a good one either way.
Hold it down.