A question for everyone regarding immigration

a reply to: Phage

I didnt say welfare alone.

In NYC for example and NY state there are a myriad of offices and services for disenfranchised, poverty stricken people where those questions arent even asked. California, is ALLOT more intensive.

Also the fraud committed by illegal immigrants is MANY times greater than Us citizens out of sheer necessity. Just walk through a Caribbean neighborhood one day, or south american neighborhood and listen to an average of 5 out of 10 conversations. You will learn to defraud the system like a pro.

And what you think that law means isnt what its application or intent was. It would be nice, but no.

For one Obama's dream act can keep people getting assistance if they just enroll in anything as trivial as a language school. It and other older laws also work to formalize their situation to a point that they can get assistance. If they are OFF THE BOAT then they first have to stop by a state office. Once that is done they are still illegal but are now in the system and qualify for assistance in many cases. If they have kids or elderly or sick family they argue through them.

a reply to: Metallicus
Taken? What was taken and who's was it?

a reply to: tadaman
That sort of thing sounds like what the President has been asking Congress to fix by law.

I don't see how this 3 year grace period on deporting parents of legal children (not "dreamers") will have much of an effect either way on what you're talking about.

a reply to: Phage

don't see how this 3 year grace period on deporting parents of legal children (not "dreamers") will have much of an effect either way on what you're talking about.

Are they going into stasis? They will continue to be in a needy situation and will continue to ask for help. People need to eat, have basic care, and housing....

ALSO,
The president asked congress to FIX what he helped create? When?

a reply to: tadaman
Are we just going to box up several million people and ship them across the border?

a reply to: Phage

Are we just going to box up several million people and ship them across the border?

Yes.
The bus is not a box. Their consulates can help.

a reply to: tadaman
Ah. Ok.
Problem solved then.
Thanks.


How come no other administration did that?

a reply to: Phage

Ah. Ok.
Problem solved then.
Thanks.


How come no other administration did that?

Would be.

Its not like DEPORTATION is a new concept. Its as old as nations. Tribal culture even.

As far as why have no massive deportations happened before? During the american golden age we needed cheap labor. Its well known that past administrations turned a blind eye because big business liked having SLAVES. That is still true mind you. If they stay they will still probably be second class citizens no matter what. They really do have a better chance to become more than fry cook in their countries.

Then we found that its cheaper still to just manufacture in their countries.

a reply to: tadaman
As I understand it there is this thing called due process. Troublesome, I know but laws can be that way.

a reply to: Phage

So process them and deport them if they came here illegally.

The only people trying to circumvent the law and due process are those that want to overlook the fact that they are here ILLEGALLY and that does have an official response on the books.

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: auroraaus

originally posted by: Metallicus
No. It wouldn't change my mind.

The people broke our laws and illegally invaded our country.

Pretty sure those of the First Nations would say the same thing buddy.

Maybe if it were 500 years ago you could ask them and your comment might actually be relevant.

Also, please keep your condescending "buddy" references to yourself. I am not your "buddy".

Frankie says Relax, guy.

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: Phage

So process them and deport them if they came here illegally.

Someone put a variable in the process that makes an exception for 5 million. That is where things stand.

a reply to: tadaman
That is what has been being done, as I understand it.

Based on the DHS data and a Bloomberg Businessweek report from late last year, the Obama administration has carried out roughly 1.8 million removals in his time in office through September 7, 2013. That's less than George W. Bush's overall total of slightly more than 2 million, but even conservative estimates of the number of deportations in fiscal year 2014 would have Obama crossing that mark right about now and on pace to crush it by the end of his presidency. (The number represents total removals, not the number of people removed; one person could be sent back to their country of origin several times.)

www.motherjones.com...

The only people trying to circumvent the law and due process are those that want to overlook the fact that they are here ILLEGALLY and that does have an official response on the books.

Some maybe. But most seem to agree that the current laws don't seem to be working (democrats and republicans). It seems that the laws needs adjustment. Too bad the law makers can't get it together.

a reply to: Metallicus

Dear Lordie, How on Earth is making a statement about the First Nations arrogant, rude, obnoxious and irrelevant??

Westerners are feeling the scourge that we wreaked upon on others with imperialist and colonial ambitions. Yes, so centuries ago right? Have you ever heard of inter-generational trauma? Cultural trauma?

And for your information, if I wanted to be condescending, I would have started calling you 'Darl', 'Sweetheart' and the like.

Please get into your non-cranky pants. You are entitled to your opinion in this discussion, as am I. No personal attacks I made on you, and I expect the same in return.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: tadaman
Ah. Ok.
Problem solved then.
Thanks.


How come no other administration did that?

opetation wetback. It did work.

Here is a little true story.

My sister in law is married in Mexico to a guy. They moved to the US in the 80s.

They have been living here since. Kids, life ect.

The husband is even a partner in a small business now here with another immigrant who is here legally.

The husband married some RANDOM person for papers. That person is MIA after getting her money. He is stuck half way through the process. He cant be deported but isnt a citizen. His wife, still illegal. Big fraud that backfired since he doesnt like the idea of jail for being honest about what he did.

In all the years of going through the system for assistance, and they get allot, they never sat down and tried to do things correctly. Ask them why and they say, MEH.

SOOOO, what to do? in over 20 years, they never took advantage of the process to do things right. They always thought they would leave but then their kids said "nope". not going. My dad even offered to do the paper work for them since their entire family works with us and has for over 20 years. In the 80s it would have taken under a year. They just said no and MEH. That is absurd.
SO. You mean to tell me that they HAVE to get amnesty NOW....because reasons?

a reply to: mugger
You mean this?

World War II and the postwar period exacerbated the Mexican exodus to the United States, as the demand for cheap agricultural laborers increased. Graft and corruption on both sides of the border enriched many Mexican officials as well as unethical "coyote" freelancers in the United States who promised contracts in Texas for the unsuspecting Bracero. Studies conducted over a period of several years indicate that the Bracero program increased the number of illegal aliens in Texas and the rest of the country.

www.tshaonline.org...

a reply to: Phage

Its not that the laws arent being agreed upon.

Its that they are constantly circumvented. Its supposed to work like this.

You come illegally. You get deported. YET there are a myriad of groups and lobbyists who make foundations and committees to prop up laws to DEFY the laws already on the books.

Before anyone tries to pin this on "stubborn" republicans, Democrats have been playing dirty with immigration for votes for years.....they dont follow law so why make new ones they will just circumvent when they dont find them convenient.

a reply to: tadaman

The Guy is even a partner in a small business now here with another immigrant who is here legally.

Sounds like a productive member of the community.

You mean to tell me that they HAVE to get amnesty NOW....because reasons?

I don't know if a 3 year period in which they won't be deported is exactly amnesty, or if they will qualify, but what's the point of kicking out a long standing productive member of the community. Does this have to happen? No.

Hey, if it bugs you that much, bust him.

Its that they are constantly circumvented. Its supposed to work like this.

It hasn't been working for a long time. You just pointed out at least 20 years of it not working.

a reply to: Phage
Add to that the fact that it was the Mexican Gov that requested the deportations and it puts things in a different light.