Death and the End of the World......

'''It is appointed unto men once to die,but after this the judgement .'' [Heb 9 ,27 ]

Death is followed by judgement .Just as is that every man who is born into this world shall die- save those who shall be alive at the second coming of Christ .

''We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed .''[1 Cor .15, 51 ]
And then ,in whatever state death finds us,he shall take us, and shall each remain forever. If one is found faithless, sinful and urepented, he shall remain in that state.And if death finds one in faith and repentance, in virtue and sanctity, he shall remain virtous and holy.....shall remain in this state till the Second coming of Christ and the final judgement...

'''For the hour is coming , in which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice, and shall come forth;
they that have done good,unto the resurrection of life;
and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation'' [John 5 , 28-29]
And the Apostle Paul sais; '' Behold. I shew you a mystery;We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump:for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed''[1Cor .15:51 ,52 ]


What views do people hold on Death and the end of the world???
Does it concern you???
I'm not seeking death , but like everyone else, i'm sure.........thinks of death ........as one day it will come to all !!!

The end of the world doesn't really concern me because in my beliefs, it won't end for a long long time after I am gone.

As for death. At times, if I think about it hard enough, thinking about getting old, then eventually dying, it almost makes what I do now seem pointless. However, I come back to reality and realize I will adapt to my age and eventual death, seeing as I have plenty of time 'til I get there.

I've came close a few times. The aftershock of a near death experience does make you see things a little differently...

Death need not come to someone of old age......

Death can come unexpectant.......when one foresees danger, one flees from it.........it is the same with death.......because all must die......

And the world contains hundreds of millions who'll tell you that you are re-incarnated.
There really is nothing to say beyond what one believes.
And, it would take a very great deal of adjustment and quibbling to make any such question clear.
Still, we can be sure that many hundreds of millions have died in the past and the world ( in the only clear sense we have) goes on: and draw the necessary inferences from that.

''And I saw the dead ,small and great, standing before God, and books were opened.And another book was opened,which is the Book of Life.
And the dead were judged according to their works,by the things which were written in the books'''(Revelation 20:12)
God will also judge those who have survived until the Second Coming,as the Nicene Creed say's:'''He is coming again with Glory to judge the living and the dead;and His Kingdom will have no end'''.
At Christ's return, death will be no more.
'''Then comes the end,when He delivers the Kingdom to God the Father,when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
The last enemy that will be destroyed is DEATH''(Death was the consequence of the first sin ) ......(1Corinthians 15:24-26)
''There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away''(Revelation 21:4)
In the end, death itself is punished along with those evil ones who first brought it upon humanity, for Revelation says,''''Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire ''(Revelation 20:14 )
'''The hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth-those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation''(John 5 :28,29 ).

Always a pick me up...

Personally, how so many people can worship such a tantrum throwing little god, really makes me scratch my head. I mean, the only ones he's sparing are 400,000 virgin men, descended from tribes of Isreal. Then, everyone else on Earth, basically gets tortured (not killed, tortured) and then killed. Then, some are THEN brought back to live in heaven (doesn't the description of New Jerusalem sound like a UFO?), with these corpses that just came up from their graves....

*goes and looks for the lake of fire so he can jump in instead...*

Gaz.....you talking about 144,000..

In this vision is depicted the Church(People) at the time of the flourishing of the empire of the beast.
The number 144,000here has a similar significance as in chapter 7:2-8.of Revelation.
The chosen of God are from all the peoples of the earth,presented figuratively in the form of the twelve tribes of Israel.
That the name of the Father of the Lambis written upon their brows signifies the distinguishing qualities of their inward attitude:their moral character and form of life, their entire dedication to the service of God.
''The Apocalypse'' In the teachings of Ancient Christianity.. st Herman of Alaska brotherhood....Jordanville N.Y.

I'll go along with Thorfinn and Gazrock.

It's kind of sad to contemplate the end; a heat-death from the sun going nova in a universe that's drifting farther and farther apart. And yet, I believe that my descendants (and myself, reincarnated) will not quit and will not quail and somehow, some way, homo-sapiens the Wise Anthropoid will figure out something. Wormholes, white holes, black holes, imploding galaxies... we are the dreams of the startsuff itself. We will go onward.

Reincarnation is a good thing to look forward to... hopefully they'll be able to retrieve past memories more easily. My future self will enjoy my scrappy present self and all the buzzing ideas and busy mind.

Byrd you talk about reincarnation!

Do you beleive that once you are reincarnated you become a better person each time?
Therefore you become a better person?
And that you finally evolve into a good person after so many 'reincarnations?
What is 'reincarnation for?

Why is it so important to be 'reincarnated?

Do you beleive that once you are reincarnated you become a better person each time?
Therefore you become a better person?

Oh, not necessarily. Some folks seem to stay foolish for a very long time. The soul who was Hitler probably has to come back for a lot of very hard lifetimes (I suspect the past several were probably as nonhuman (animal) entities) before he can completely absolve himself of his karma (which is "sort of" like the doctrine of "original sin" or "the sins of the fathers" only there's a limit to how long the punishment goes on.)

And that you finally evolve into a good person after so many 'reincarnations?

I don't think you've quite got the concept, here. "More spiritual" is probably closer, since "good" tends to be "Whatever the society thinks is good." (as an example, in some countries it is "good" to cut off a little girl's external genitalia so that her husband will know she's a virgin. On her wedding night, he has a knife that he slits the scar tissue with before having intercourse. "Good" varies.)

And some appear to learn more quickly than others.

What is 'reincarnation for?

What is life for?

Why is it so important to be 'reincarnated?

It isn't. The point is that you grow beyond the lesson stage where you have to keep coming back via reincarnations and become one with the Universe. Somewhat similar (but not exactly) to the Christian idea of being filled with God and living a godly life.

Sometimes (some say) you choose to be reincarnated to help others in the world who are struggling. Great teachers and influential teachers are usually older souls who chose to come back in a humbler position to help lift others.

Doh!

I can't believe I typed the wrong number, lol!
I always use it to make fun of Jahova's Witnesses, as they strive to be the ones saved, so when I see one with a wife and kid, I secretly snicker to myself...

Byrd the reason me asking these questions is that i hav spoken to a few who beleive in ''reincarnation'' and they tell me that they 'reincarnate 'into a better person with each reincarnation.

So,if that is so true and the world is so old.............Why are people becoming the worst society has ever seen???
Why are people becoming more ignorant and without morals???

Why is there is much'''Mis-trust'' in the world.......where no one seems to trust anyone any more???
Why is there a ''''Terrorist'' alert in the whole world???

If we do ''reincarnate'' and supposedly learn from pur past wrong doings.......Why is the world not a better place???

Each body has their own soul....and I beleive that each soul will have to answer for their life on earth.......one body .......one soul.....
Therefore to beleive in 'reincarnation ' to me sounds foolish.........If one is being 'reincarnated ' and coming back more humble or let's say,more knowing of past mistakes......then why is the world the way it is?

God is a Jackass fan

Hurts people for no apparent reason, worshipped by many , never held accountable, oww...whats this sharp pain...in...chest *dies*

I aint taking no chances
I love anything thats up there, just none of the fire terror and barbra streisand concerts for me plz.

helen670

Souls don't always progress to higher planes in reincarnation. If your a major asshole; you'll probably be kicked down to a lower plane or stay where you're at, depending on your ways and actions. This is assuming that reincarnation is a "reality" in the relative world. I'm starting to lean more toward the idea of reincarnation.


ONE

[Edited on 12-6-2003 by Tamahu]

So a quote from Tamahu."""If your a major asshole'''you'll probably be kicked down to a lower plane or stay where you're at, depending on your ways and actions.

It does make sense to me.....

What is the purpose of '''reincarnation'' if one seems to be on the same level or lower level!
If one is on the same level or lower,then one can be in that state for eternity.......learning nothing ...gaining nothing ......just because one has made mistakes!
It does nothing to heal ones 'mistakes' or wrong doings.....
Reincarnation seems to just keep dying and being born again to a never ending circle........
.......helen

helen670 said:

"What is the purpose of '''reincarnation'' if one seems to be on the same level or lower level!"
and
"Reincarnation seems to just keep dying and being born again to a never ending circle........"

I'm sure that we'll all get plenty of chances to elevate before and if; the ALL "decides" to end what we call time and space in this dimension.

But, it seems that the ONE or the ALL is the only ONE who knows the answer; unless of course there's some master(s) or higher beings who aren't revealing it to us.




ONE

Originally posted by helen670
So,if that is so true and the world is so old.............Why are people becoming the worst society has ever seen???
Why are people becoming more ignorant and without morals???

Might I suggest that you do a bit more reading on history and "how things were"? I don't mean this unkindly, but you seem to think that the farther back in history we go, the better we were.

This isn't true.

For instance, in Biblical times, you (as a woman) could be stoned to death for touching a man in the wrong place... or for going in to your husband to have sex and your period starts.

I don't see that as moral or better than what we have now.

In Biblical times, your father could sell you as a slave or concubine. I don't see this as better or more moral.

In Biblical times, you could be forced to marry at age 3 (yes, you really could.) This is better? This is an improvement? In the 1800's, in America, you could be stoned or have had dogs sicced on you (as a woman) for walking around WITHOUT wearing a corset and stays and proper women's garments (which tended to kill women, actually... the long dresses got caught in things and pulled many a woman to her death.) And this is better.

Pre-1900, a man could beat his wife to death if she annoyed him. It was legal to whip her and her children with whips as long as they weren't thicker than a man's finger. It was legal to chain your children to workbenches.

Ah, the good old days.

In Biblical times, handicapped babies and unwanted children were left on the hillsides for the wild animals to eat. We don't do that now -- this makes our morals worse?

In the good old days, a man could take a female of any age to be his spouse or concubine or sex slave (no laws against that), and children being married to older men (or sex slaves to them) was quite common since before the age of the Roman emperors.

This is the morality you're advocating going back to?

You could be lynched if you weren't the proper religion. You could be lynched for associating with the wrong people. You could be lynched if you walked into a place that wasn't proper. Women could be denied pay for military service and pensions for any sort of professional work they did (Dr. Mary Walker, Civil War surgeon, fought to get a pension for the surgical work she did.)

You could beat animals to death and nobody would stop you. Popular forms of entertainment included pouring turpentine on live dogs and setting them on fire. Any aristocrat could rape your wife or daughter (or sons) and get away with it, but you'd be killed if you protested.

And let's not forget the almost universal practice of putting someone in prison if they went bankrupt or accumulated debt and couldn't pay the rent for a month or so. And that they could be enslaved and sold for such things.

...the good old days. Human sacrifice was practiced in many areas, and in the Bible, Jehovah demands that one Hebrew girl and around 3,000 Midanite girls be sacrificed to him (as in "killed and burned on the altar).

And you're arguing that THOSE THINGS were more moral? That because we've eliminated those and a thousand other things that we've become more monstrous as a society?

There's some good books in the library on everyday life in various societies (and works such as Samuel Pepys' diaries, though I suggest you instead look at the women writers who were more in tune with society).

And stop and think about the laws. The stuff in the Magna Carta wasn't for decoration -- it is full of issues that people fought to have overthrown. You're saying we'd be better with this document over thrown so we could go back to the Earlier Times?
www.britannia.com...

And undo the American Constution? That we became more barbarous under it than before?

You really need to read more history... and I don't mean this unkindly. But you seem to have been fed a soap-and-faeries version of what life was like and arguing from that glorious rainbow-filled idealism makes your arguments weak.

Why is there is much'''Mis-trust'' in the world.......where no one seems to trust anyone any more???
Why is there a ''''Terrorist'' alert in the whole world???

Well, the terrorism has only recently affected the US (you really need to read more history) and you are mistaking the US for the rest of the world. Terrorism has had a long existance.

And as for mistrust, apparently you haven't lived long enough or in other foreign countries to know real, xenophobic mistrust. I'd suggest you travel abroad and find out first hand about these things in other cultures, but it's awfully expensive to go somewhere and live there for half a year for that kind of education.

If we do ''reincarnate'' and supposedly learn from pur past wrong doings.......Why is the world not a better place???

It is. I really don't mean to seem unkind, but I think some reading on the subject about the way things REALLY were might show you a different viewpoint.

I think you may have missed some points on how reincarnation works.

Originally posted by helen670
What is the purpose of '''reincarnation'' if one seems to be on the same level or lower level!

Haven't you ever encountered someone who's on a major jerk-trip that day and just wished that THEY could be in your shoes for awhile... and maybe that would make them more understanding?

That's what happens if you don't learn your lessons. That nasty male chauvanist is probably going to end up as a fairly helpless and repressed woman in the next lifetime to teach him a little humanity and kindness.

If one is on the same level or lower,then one can be in that state for eternity.......learning nothing ...gaining nothing ......just because one has made mistakes!
It does nothing to heal ones 'mistakes' or wrong doings.....

You've gotten this confused with the "one time around and you're in hell forever with no chance to ever get out or heal one's mistakes or wrong doings" philosphy.

Reincarnation says that the good deeds that you do in this life atone for past mistakes and evils. The kinder you are toward the world and others, the faster you progress toward ultimate freedom. There is no "worship the right thing no matter how bad you are and get into heaven free" card. You are responsible for your life and how you live it, and it's your actions toward ALL living things that count.

Ghandi is an example of someone who may never reincarnate again unless his spirit wished to come back as a teacher. Mother Teresa seems to be another such person.

I, for one, am kinda pissed off at the idea of a second-coming.

You mean to tell me that after all my entire lifetime of pain and strife, I finally get to die and GET SOME PEACE AND QUIET, and now your gonna drag me outta the ground from some end-of-the-world shin-dig?

Lemme stay dead......

'''It is appointed unto men once to die''[Heb . 9,27]

Death will come uninvited and we shall find ourselves in the next life.And this shall occur with all all men up to the end of time and the end of the world.
Then at the end of the ages,''''We shall not all sleep'' as St Paul say's,''But we shall all be changed'';from corruptible we shall be changed into incorruptible (beings)..[1 Cor .15, 51 ]
In the book of Psalms:''They( the heavens)shall perish....and they all shall wax old as a garment; and as a vesture shat thou fold them and they shall be changed''[Psalm 101,27]

''It is appointed unto men once to die,but after this the judgement''[Heb .9 ,27 ]
Death is followed by judgement.
After death there is no repentance or salvation.......this is the partial judgement......not the end of the world .where the living and the dead shall rise .......
Memorial services on behalf of the dead is in the old Testament.In 11Maccabees(12,43)Judas Maccabees is portrayed as offering sacrifice for those who have fallen in battle,fot their atonement and for the forgiveness of their sins.
That is why today the church performs such ritual because we do not know the soul of the person at the last moment and if he had asked God's mercy....

'''For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body,
according to that he hath done,
Whether it be good or bad''[11 Corinth. 5,10]
''When the Son of Man shall come in His Glory,.........and before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall seperate them one from another,as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: and He shall set the sheep on His right hand,but the goats on the left'''[Matthew 25,31-33]