J.F.K. Assassination - What evidence raises your suspicions most?

originally posted by: Arnold_OldSchool
culturecrossfire.com...

Part one of my multi-week look at all the questionable happenings surrounding JFK's death. This week focuses on his autopsy and why it may prove that more than one shooter was involved

Your thoughts and theories are welcome!

The Oswald did it and Oswald didn't do it camps are pretty firmly established and unshakeable at this point. Obviously, you're in the latter camp. The question is who did it --not so much who pulled the trigger but who ordered it and who covered it up.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: works4dhs
a reply to: Aazadan

theory; Oswald probly didn't expect to walk away from the depository (otherwise would have cleaned his prints better) and he grabbed his gun and started hoofing it with no clear plan. He shot Tippit out of confusion. He went in the theater to hide out for a while. (If he'd paid for his ticket he might have gotten away).

in re; cleaning the limo; somebody said 'clean the limo for the funeral' and it was done. powerful and influential people can be boneheads when bushwhacked by the unexpected. We need not see conspiracy when plain human stupidity or carelessness will do.

If he didn't plan to walk away from the book depository, why did he? If he wanted to be caught, why didn't he confess? Why didn't he announce that he'd done it? What confusion would have led to the shooting of Tippit?

I do agree with the part about powerful and influential people sometimes being boneheads. Do we know who ordered the cleaning of the limo?

(thanks for a rational and resonable response)
We just don't know how well or how deeply he planned this. Obviously he didn't just happen to have a gun so he did some forethought. Maybe up til the last moment he wasn't sure he would do it, and grabbed the gun a few minutes before it happened, fired, stashed the gun and ran. Maybe he was surprised he made it out of the building and didn't know what to do next. So he runs home, grabs his pistol, and heads to the theater to hide out. As time went on maybe he started convincing himself he could talk his way out of the whole thing (he supposedly considered himself to be a bit smarter than most).
I think the Tippit encounter totally floored him and he just shot his way out of it without thinking.
I understand somebody at the White House ordered the cleaning, very likely somebody low-level. No thought crime scene /evidence.

originally posted by: works4dhs

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: works4dhs
a reply to: Aazadan

theory; Oswald probly didn't expect to walk away from the depository (otherwise would have cleaned his prints better) and he grabbed his gun and started hoofing it with no clear plan. He shot Tippit out of confusion. He went in the theater to hide out for a while. (If he'd paid for his ticket he might have gotten away).

in re; cleaning the limo; somebody said 'clean the limo for the funeral' and it was done. powerful and influential people can be boneheads when bushwhacked by the unexpected. We need not see conspiracy when plain human stupidity or carelessness will do.

If he didn't plan to walk away from the book depository, why did he? If he wanted to be caught, why didn't he confess? Why didn't he announce that he'd done it? What confusion would have led to the shooting of Tippit?

I do agree with the part about powerful and influential people sometimes being boneheads. Do we know who ordered the cleaning of the limo?

(thanks for a rational and resonable response)
We just don't know how well or how deeply he planned this. Obviously he didn't just happen to have a gun so he did some forethought. Maybe up til the last moment he wasn't sure he would do it, and grabbed the gun a few minutes before it happened, fired, stashed the gun and ran. Maybe he was surprised he made it out of the building and didn't know what to do next. So he runs home, grabs his pistol, and heads to the theater to hide out. As time went on maybe he started convincing himself he could talk his way out of the whole thing (he supposedly considered himself to be a bit smarter than most).
I think the Tippit encounter totally floored him and he just shot his way out of it without thinking.
I understand somebody at the White House ordered the cleaning, very likely somebody low-level. No thought crime scene /evidence.

I don't think we know for sure that Oswald had anything at all to do with the assassination. He may well have been placed at the Book Depository by someone who was an operative and helped him get that job. IF that's the case, others were probably being set up as potential patsys, too, and things just fell in place for Oswald to be the one used. We can't be certain that Oswald even ordered that rifle. OF course, it is possible that he did play a role and he did shoot Tippit. However, I think it is more likely than not that someone else shot Tippit. This would suggest that Oswald was under surveillance at all times after leaving the Book Depository. Tippit could have been charged with the surveillance and eliminated so that he couldn't talk. Interesting discussion.

a reply to: works4dhs

You forgot that the limo was sent to the Ford manufacturing plant in Detroit to be refitted days after the Assassination.

Just for fun, General Smedley Butler, USMC, retired; accused and testified before a Congressional Committee that, several very wealthy financiers were planning a coup against President F. Roosevelt, in the early 30's. This was to install a military-industrial junta with General Butler as the head and Roosevelt to be a puppet. The committee verified the information he presented as to meetings and individuals. The committee closed without a formal statement. Later, the accused would laugh it off as cocktail talk. Being of sufficient social and economic status, their version was trumpeted by the media. Let us see, Castro takes over Cuba, and shuts down the casinos and banking system. No more money laundering. No fun place to go, and do whatever you wanted without fear of police investigation. Look for the lists of people, who spent weeks in Cuba in the Forties and Fifties. These same people were unhappy with President Kennedy's handling of the Bay of Pigs, and October, 1962. Nasty combination, big money and the Mafia. According to Nancy Sinatra, Frank Sinatra worked with the CIA getting people in and out of place on his private aircraft. Remember, no custom, no immigration checks.

originally posted by: Brandyjack
Just for fun, General Smedley Butler, USMC, retired; accused and testified before a Congressional Committee that, several very wealthy financiers were planning a coup against President F. Roosevelt, in the early 30's. This was to install a military-industrial junta with General Butler as the head and Roosevelt to be a puppet. The committee verified the information he presented as to meetings and individuals. The committee closed without a formal statement. Later, the accused would laugh it off as cocktail talk. Being of sufficient social and economic status, their version was trumpeted by the media. Let us see, Castro takes over Cuba, and shuts down the casinos and banking system. No more money laundering. No fun place to go, and do whatever you wanted without fear of police investigation. Look for the lists of people, who spent weeks in Cuba in the Forties and Fifties. These same people were unhappy with President Kennedy's handling of the Bay of Pigs, and October, 1962. Nasty combination, big money and the Mafia. According to Nancy Sinatra, Frank Sinatra worked with the CIA getting people in and out of place on his private aircraft. Remember, no custom, no immigration checks.

Any number of groups could have committed the assassination. Please explain how this group could have managed the subsequent coverup that involved a president, the Warren Commission, the FBI, CIA, etc.

I'll have to keep this short, but for me, the best 'evidence' that raises my suspicions the most , was in fact the reaction of the Dealey Plaza crowd that day. Most people actually ran straight tp the grassy knoll following the shooting, this where they heard shots coming from that day. Not the only shot of course, but definitely a shot at least (this in itself contradicting the official story of a single shooter from the depository building thus meaning conspiracy.).

To ignore the reaction of people that day is just downright foolish, especially over half a decade later in my opinion. Overtime, especially on the ensuing hours, our recollections of events change, but the initial reaction will forever remain the same, and it's always very telling. And going from their reaction that day, we know that the vast majority of people knew the knoll to be a firing zone.

We can of course always dig a little deeper and look at shot trajectories, witness testimonies, we can do our mock reenactments etc, but the initial reaction of those who eere actually there to experience it is perhaps the most crucial piece of evidence of all. At least to me it is anyway.

the 'shots from the grassy knoll' probably came from echo effect. Sometimes my neighbor has target practice in his back yard and it sounds like it's coming from my other neighbor's house.
it's a shame we didn't have a better investigation; here we are fifty years later still debating.

culturecrossfire.com...


Part two of a look into the JFK murder. This time I explore how many shots were really fired and from where, how many guns were found at the crime scene, Oswald's CIA connections, was an Oswald double running around Dallas setting Lee Harvey up?? and more!!!

What raises my suspicions the most about the JFK thing? Good question. How about the fact that it happened? I mean, at this point, anytime anything big happens, I always get suspicious. It's kind of sad, actually, that we can't trust ANYONE to just be honest. We can't trust the media to look for the truth. But that's human nature, I guess. I don't think you can really do anything about human nature.

I don't know. It strikes me as kind of weird JFK would have been riding around in a slow moving convertible in a time as volatile as the 60s. It seems like one of those things that the general public might just accept as plausible but you'd think someone would have said "Wait a sec! This is a terrible idea!"

culturecrossfire.com...

Part 3...This time the Zapruder film's validity is covered, the Umbrella Man is revealed, Why JD Tippet wasn't killed by Oswald, Oswald's behavior in custody, and we finish with the identity of the Three Tramps-one of who admitted to executing the President.

Really, all you have to do is show that shots were fired from somewhere other than the TSBD, and from testimony of Parkland staff, I think that's quite obvious. From that point, it's another arena in its entirety. From that point, somebody else is involved and there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the government was involved because of the obvious cover-up that attempts to obscure the other shots. It's really easy, but then again it's really easy to 'disinform' the public given the monstrous funding the CIA has to do so.

Why does the footage showing the motorcycle cop dropping his bike and regarding the storm drain always cut away at the last sec, to obscure what transpires. Did the cop inspect the drain as people claim, or is it editing?

Another remark on the storm drain, I don't think an upwards shot from there can have a line of sight up thru the car (door or whatever) to JFK as he slumped and was held by Jackie. You can't get a shot to the left rear of the car from under the right front. I think the grassy knoll shot, while a possibility, might have placed Jackie squarely in the line of fire....we don't see the result of that 2:00 shot as she's be hit, or drenched in blood.

I believe the JFK kill shot was from the rear. "Back and to the left" is an oversimplification, as a high velocity or frangible round thru his right side skull from the rear would look just like it's seen. I believe the Soviets concluded the same. Most convincing forensically is the skull x-ray showing radial the segmentation of the skull case, a large spider-web pattern that is 100% consistent with modern forensic recreations of a shot from the rear.

Also, Zapruder film looks heavily masked, the people on the far side on the grass are overly large, plus the slowing of the limo and subsequent speeding up are "racked" if that's the right term.

Just trying to add some opinion to a thread I follow. My mom worked for JFK, we have snapshots of him. I was born exactly 9 months later, almost to the day. I also could never he an answer of where my dad was that day either. He's a shady dude. I would not even be surprised if you-know-what.

Its just funny how people believed everything they were shown. Up and to the left...

It's kinda everything that you have put down really... It shouldn't exist if proper procedure was followed in the first place... If it really was as the government had said, than you wouldn't have been able to put up all those points... a reply to: questionyourtruth

I have a new theory. Oswald acted alone, but there was also a team of (two) mafia shooters, of which he had no idea. This would explain the 'magic bullet' problems. no shortage of Mafiosi wanting to take JFK out.
I don't think much of all this Oswald-worked-for-the-alphabet-agencies speculation. Oswald was always broke and was running around with a few dollars. If he really was a gummint troll he'd have been better paid.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Arnold_OldSchool
culturecrossfire.com...

Part one of my multi-week look at all the questionable happenings surrounding JFK's death. This week focuses on his autopsy and why it may prove that more than one shooter was involved

Your thoughts and theories are welcome!

The Oswald did it and Oswald didn't do it camps are pretty firmly established and unshakeable at this point. Obviously, you're in the latter camp. The question is who did it --not so much who pulled the trigger but who ordered it and who covered it up.

if Oswald did it . . . why the need to have Ruby kill him? Cuz Oswald realized he was a patsy and would give up the goods? Why use Oswald in the first place then . . .

originally posted by: works4dhs

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: works4dhs
a reply to: Aazadan


I think the Tippit encounter totally floored him and he just shot his way out of it without thinking.
I understand somebody at the White House ordered the cleaning, very likely somebody low-level. No thought crime scene /evidence.

that could be just an honest mistake but the honest mistakes keep adding up. with a president dead they would be more careful than with a typical murder case you'd think. Why the need to fake the autopsy? Was that an honest mistake? Why the need to replace sidewalk curb that was hit in dealey plaza, oops? It's common sense stuff that you don't destroy evidence in a huge crime, like W Bush ordering 9/11 evidence destroyed by mistake.

that could be just an honest mistake but the honest mistakes keep adding up. with a president dead they would be more careful than with a typical murder case you'd think. Why the need to fake the autopsy? Was that an honest mistake? Why the need to replace sidewalk curb that was hit in dealey plaza, oops? It's common sense stuff that you don't destroy evidence in a huge crime, like W Bush ordering 9/11 evidence destroyed by mistake.

originally posted by: works4dhs
the 'shots from the grassy knoll' probably came from echo effect. Sometimes my neighbor has target practice in his back yard and it sounds like it's coming from my other neighbor's house.
it's a shame we didn't have a better investigation; here we are fifty years later still debating.

that would mean people would think it came from many different places not mostly just grassy knoll. and yeah it's a shame that it was covered up but the fa ct it was covered up was illegal so that should be enough to throw the warren commissioner folks, those still alive anyway, in jail. but everyone who kept the coverup going today including Obama is guilty too. Like if someone destroyed evidence in a cold case.