J.F.K. Assassination - What evidence raises your suspicions most?

Well, actually in my opinion he did it with the quickness and put his hands back on the wheel after he looks back.

a reply to: Aazadan

The following recording between the recently sworn in President LBJ and FBI Director JEH (Hoover) talking privately about JFK's assassination that was released a few years ago removed all doubt in my mind:


To save time, here is a transcript of the most damning parts:

9:07 in the video:

LBJ: “Were they aiming at the President?”
JEH: “They were aiming directly at the President. There's no question about that. This telescopic lens the guys look through, it brings a person as close to you as if they were sitting right beside you."

(Italics mine.)

9:40 in the video:

LBJ: “How did it happen to hit Connally?”
JEH: “Connally turned when the first shot was fired and I think in that turning is where he got hit.”
LBJ: “If he hadn't turned he wouldn't have gotten hit.”
JEH: “I think that's very likely.”
LBJ: “Would the President got hit the second?”
JEH: “No, no, the President was hit by the second one.”
LBJ: "If Connally hadn't of been in his way."
JEH: "Oh yes, yes, the President no doubt would have been hit."
LBJ: "He would have been hit three times."
JEH: "He would have been hit three times, yup."

They basically agree that Connally "was in his way" (JFK) of (at least) a second firing line originating from the front of the Presidential limo. They knew.

originally posted by: Tangerine
How could the Mafia have covered up the assassination after the fact?

Who ever says that only the Mafia was involved? Bobby Kennedy after the JFK assassination said that he knew they were going to get one of them. Bobby was going after the mafia pretty hard, that same mafia that was instrumental in Kennedy getting elected. J Edgar Hoover saw this not only as an intrusion into his territory but also an embarrassment as he always publicly denied the mafia existed. The CIA was pissed off over the Bay of Pigs and Kennedys stance, and Castro/Kruschev very likely could have wanted revenge.

Just about every major power group in the US had an axe to grind with JFK and some international groups as well. So the answer to your question is, who ever said the mafia was working alone? The coverup would require the cooperation of both the CIA and FBI as well as probably key members of congress. The assassination would require professional hitmen who you knew from experience would keep their mouth shut about high profile targets which is something only the mafia could provide, the CIA doesn't assassinate that many high profile people.

originally posted by: Tangerine
Ruby taking out Oswald is not a clear indication of Mafia involvement. You're assuming that Ruby was only linked to one group/organization. Or, it could be that the Mafia was working for another group/organization because of mutual interests. Killing a hired assassin is probably something done by a number of organizations. Why would it specific to onlyl the Mob?

It's not specific to the mob but from what I remember Ruby had mafia connections and it was very common among the mafia to kill their hitmen if they got caught incase they would cut a deal and start leaking information. The Mexican cartels operate under the same model today. If it were just the CIA or FBI chances are they wouldn't kill one of their own as they operate under a different structure and need loyalty as they can't just buy it.

originally posted by: Sholafar
Well, actually in my opinion he did it with the quickness and put his hands back on the wheel after he looks back.

None of which changes the fact that the driver is in the completely wrong position to have shot Kennedy. Oh, and there was a glass window between the driver and the passengers that the driver would have had to shoot through. That glass window was never hit by a bullet. It didn't break on the camera recordings, and you can still see it in the car today, it wasn't hit.

For me, it's the way the limousine was quickly cleaned and later refurbished; this destroying vital evidence

originally posted by: Aazadan
I wonder about Tippit, why did Oswald kill him? Ruby taking out Oswald is a clear indication of mafia involvment given Rubys past and the fact that killing a captured assassin is mob tactics 101.

Did Oswald even kill Tippit? Realistically it could have been anyone, if Oswald needed to go down it seems like committing a crime that could be blamed on him, and getting a search going for a specific subject is precisely what you would need to do. Once captured it would be business as usual to take him out.

As far as the two Oswald theory goes, I have to admit that it sounds ridiculous. Would the CIA really have a domestic assassin on standby at all times? That seems like just the sort of thing J Edgar Hoover would use against you.

As with everything else in this mystery, that`s another can of worms.

There were 5 witnesses who saw the Tippit murder.Originally the said that 2 men killed tippit and that neither of the men were Oswald, later some of them changed their story and said that there was only 1 man and that man was Oswald.

why was Oswald out there wandering around the streets and killing a cop after he had already safely made it back to his room in the boarding housel and had gotten away,undetected, with assassinating the president? it doesn`t make any sense.

a reply to: Tangerine

A maid at the boarding house said that after Oswald had returned to the boarding house ( after the president had been assassinated) that a police car with 2 cops in it pulled up in front of the boarding house and beeped the horn and then drove off.Shortly after that Oswald left the boarding house,after leaving the hotel Oswald supposedly killed tippit.

The obvious implication is that the police car that beeped it`s horn and left was a signal for Oswald to go somewhere, and meet someone?

This map is interesting.


www.orwelltoday.com...

Oswald was travelling away from his rooming house and away from the theater that he was caught in when he supposedly killed Tipitt,in fact he was traving in the opposite direction of those 2 places.
The direction he was travelling in would have taken him to Jack Rubys apartment which was a few blocks away from where Tippit was killed.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Tangerine
How could the Mafia have covered up the assassination after the fact?

Who ever says that only the Mafia was involved? Bobby Kennedy after the JFK assassination said that he knew they were going to get one of them. Bobby was going after the mafia pretty hard, that same mafia that was instrumental in Kennedy getting elected. J Edgar Hoover saw this not only as an intrusion into his territory but also an embarrassment as he always publicly denied the mafia existed. The CIA was pissed off over the Bay of Pigs and Kennedys stance, and Castro/Kruschev very likely could have wanted revenge.

Just about every major power group in the US had an axe to grind with JFK and some international groups as well. So the answer to your question is, who ever said the mafia was working alone? The coverup would require the cooperation of both the CIA and FBI as well as probably key members of congress. The assassination would require professional hitmen who you knew from experience would keep their mouth shut about high profile targets which is something only the mafia could provide, the CIA doesn't assassinate that many high profile people.

originally posted by: Tangerine
Ruby taking out Oswald is not a clear indication of Mafia involvement. You're assuming that Ruby was only linked to one group/organization. Or, it could be that the Mafia was working for another group/organization because of mutual interests. Killing a hired assassin is probably something done by a number of organizations. Why would it specific to onlyl the Mob?

It's not specific to the mob but from what I remember Ruby had mafia connections and it was very common among the mafia to kill their hitmen if they got caught incase they would cut a deal and start leaking information. The Mexican cartels operate under the same model today. If it were just the CIA or FBI chances are they wouldn't kill one of their own as they operate under a different structure and need loyalty as they can't just buy it.

originally posted by: Sholafar
Well, actually in my opinion he did it with the quickness and put his hands back on the wheel after he looks back.

None of which changes the fact that the driver is in the completely wrong position to have shot Kennedy. Oh, and there was a glass window between the driver and the passengers that the driver would have had to shoot through. That glass window was never hit by a bullet. It didn't break on the camera recordings, and you can still see it in the car today, it wasn't hit.

I don't buy the driver shooting JFK theory, either.

Yes, if the Mafia was involved, I agree that it was in collusion with others. What makes you think the CIA doesn't kill its own? Unlike FBI agents, all sorts of people are covertly hired by the CIA and no one other than one person in the chain need know who they are. They do, indeed, buy temporary "loyalty". The CIA almost certainly hires non-US citizens, too.

I agree that the coverup required the cooperation of the CIA and the FBI but those organizations intensely dislike either other. No member of Congress has the power to control both agencies and the Warren Commission and Justice Department. Who has the power to control all of those agencies and the Warren Commission?

We did a super fun and informative ATS LIve JFK anniversary ultimate debate radio special with guests below (there was some info uncovered in the show between 2 of our guests talking evidence through that had not been put in public domain before)
We covered pretty much all angles!

This was the show: People in this thread may enjoy the listen over a hot cuppa!
Leading researchers in JFK lore, went head to head debating the Mother of all Conspiracies; Who Killed JFK?


Enjoy!
I wish we had a JFK Forum

LISTEN TO THE SHOW HERE

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
We did a super fun and informative ATS LIve JFK anniversary ultimate debate radio special with guests below (there was some info uncovered in the show between 2 of our guests talking evidence through that had not been put in public domain before)
We covered pretty much all angles!

This was the show: People in this thread may enjoy the listen over a hot cuppa!
Leading researchers in JFK lore, went head to head debating the Mother of all Conspiracies; Who Killed JFK?


Enjoy!
I wish we had a JFK Forum

LISTEN TO THE SHOW HERE

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
We did a super fun and informative ATS LIve JFK anniversary ultimate debate radio special with guests below (there was some info uncovered in the show between 2 of our guests talking evidence through that had not been put in public domain before)
We covered pretty much all angles!

This was the show: People in this thread may enjoy the listen over a hot cuppa!
Leading researchers in JFK lore, went head to head debating the Mother of all Conspiracies; Who Killed JFK?


Enjoy!
I wish we had a JFK Forum

LISTEN TO THE SHOW HERE

Multiple shooters, including the driver/secret service. CIA & some Secret Service were in in it. Johnson, too. GHWBush, Dulles, etc. Oswald was the patsy, like the Aurora "shooter" and Sandy Hook "shooter." These were special/treasonous ops. (a reply to: questionyourtruth

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
We did a super fun and informative ATS LIve JFK anniversary ultimate debate radio special with guests below (there was some info uncovered in the show between 2 of our guests talking evidence through that had not been put in public domain before)
We covered pretty much all angles!

This was the show: People in this thread may enjoy the listen over a hot cuppa!
Leading researchers in JFK lore, went head to head debating the Mother of all Conspiracies; Who Killed JFK?


Enjoy!
I wish we had a JFK Forum

LISTEN TO THE SHOW HERE

originally posted by: Tangerine
Yes, if the Mafia was involved, I agree that it was in collusion with others. What makes you think the CIA doesn't kill its own? Unlike FBI agents, all sorts of people are covertly hired by the CIA and no one other than one person in the chain need know who they are. They do, indeed, buy temporary "loyalty". The CIA almost certainly hires non-US citizens, too.

I agree that the coverup required the cooperation of the CIA and the FBI but those organizations intensely dislike either other. No member of Congress has the power to control both agencies and the Warren Commission and Justice Department. Who has the power to control all of those agencies and the Warren Commission?

The CIA isn't going to kill their own because it's just a government job. They might turn on a foreign agent when that person is no longer convenient but a domestic agent is different. The CIA doesn't buy their loyalty the way the mafia does, and the American citizens who are willing to carry out dirty tasks like this are from the ultra patriotic group of people. Maintaining that patriotism is how you make sure secrets go to the grave. If the CIA were killing their own people would start talking.

a reply to: Aazadan

Hunt took the fall for Watergate and was sent to prison.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Tangerine
Yes, if the Mafia was involved, I agree that it was in collusion with others. What makes you think the CIA doesn't kill its own? Unlike FBI agents, all sorts of people are covertly hired by the CIA and no one other than one person in the chain need know who they are. They do, indeed, buy temporary "loyalty". The CIA almost certainly hires non-US citizens, too.

I agree that the coverup required the cooperation of the CIA and the FBI but those organizations intensely dislike either other. No member of Congress has the power to control both agencies and the Warren Commission and Justice Department. Who has the power to control all of those agencies and the Warren Commission?

The CIA isn't going to kill their own because it's just a government job. They might turn on a foreign agent when that person is no longer convenient but a domestic agent is different. The CIA doesn't buy their loyalty the way the mafia does, and the American citizens who are willing to carry out dirty tasks like this are from the ultra patriotic group of people. Maintaining that patriotism is how you make sure secrets go to the grave. If the CIA were killing their own people would start talking.

The CIA contracts with people, some of whom know they're working for the CIA and many who have no clue. It's not like they publish a newsletter telling all the people they hire what everyone is doing and what happened to everyone they employ. Covert operations are conducted on a need to know basis for the protection of everyone involved, except the expendable.

Umbrella man seen just as JFK's car is driving past the book depository. A bullet lodged in McConnolly's thigh and an autopsy never performed on him when he died. Three shots fired from a bolt action rifle under seven seconds. And the Senator that winked at LBJ after being sworn in as President as Jackie looks on in grief.

Does anybody think who knows the shooters are? Rosco White, Jame Files or Lucien Sarti?

culturecrossfire.com...

Part one of my multi-week look at all the questionable happenings surrounding JFK's death. This week focuses on his autopsy and why it may prove that more than one shooter was involved

Your thoughts and theories are welcome!

a reply to: Aazadan

theory; Oswald probly didn't expect to walk away from the depository (otherwise would have cleaned his prints better) and he grabbed his gun and started hoofing it with no clear plan. He shot Tippit out of confusion. He went in the theater to hide out for a while. (If he'd paid for his ticket he might have gotten away).

in re; cleaning the limo; somebody said 'clean the limo for the funeral' and it was done. powerful and influential people can be boneheads when bushwhacked by the unexpected. We need not see conspiracy when plain human stupidity or carelessness will do.

originally posted by: works4dhs
a reply to: Aazadan

theory; Oswald probly didn't expect to walk away from the depository (otherwise would have cleaned his prints better) and he grabbed his gun and started hoofing it with no clear plan. He shot Tippit out of confusion. He went in the theater to hide out for a while. (If he'd paid for his ticket he might have gotten away).

in re; cleaning the limo; somebody said 'clean the limo for the funeral' and it was done. powerful and influential people can be boneheads when bushwhacked by the unexpected. We need not see conspiracy when plain human stupidity or carelessness will do.

If he didn't plan to walk away from the book depository, why did he? If he wanted to be caught, why didn't he confess? Why didn't he announce that he'd done it? What confusion would have led to the shooting of Tippit?

I do agree with the part about powerful and influential people sometimes being boneheads. Do we know who ordered the cleaning of the limo?