10 Recommendations on Electromagnetic Fields

originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: Bedlam

I'm not a details man, I let my spirit animal handle the finer points.

I channeled my spirit animal, the bull. And he said he will have your answer ... in the end.

originally posted by: Wildmanimal
a reply to: Bedlam

No such thing ? What is a laser?

A focused beam of photons at a particular frequency.

In which case, it's a beam of EM radiation at a particular frequency. But what it's not, is a "frequency beam".

C'mon Bedlam, I thought you knew better than that.

I do this stuff for a living, you are, as they say back home, trying to teach your granny to suck eggs. If you ran over someone with a blue car, would you say you hit someone with a vehicle, or a blue?

Frequencies are attributes of something, like the color of a car. They are not the car.

Here is an article that discusses geometric modulations.
Now, the study was based in lower ionosphere which
would really be conducive to future studies in our atmosphere.
This study is 6 years ago.

Beauty! You're quoting me a study done on a project we worked years back with BAE Advanced. Great! Now, as your test, see if you can summarize what that paper is about, without directly quoting from anyone. Your summary should be detailed and explain what's being done without plagiarizing.

Hint - it's not sufficient to just look for scary keywords like 'frequency' and 'HAARP' and say, wow, I hit the keyword jackpot, this MUST be BAAAAD!

originally posted by: Wildmanimal

You know it is more complicated than that.
Molecules are made of atoms.
In general thermal agitation you are applying heat.
Simple as that.

With Electromagnetic Frequency Beams ( and yes I
will hold fast to that term) The target is bombarded
with Electromagnetic Frequencies that not only "agitate" and
(create a thermal reaction) known to cause adverse health effects,
but electrically alter the atoms at a sub atomic level.

Hold fast to it, but understand it's total nonsense, and shows you don't have a grasp on the subject matter.

It does NOT, in fact, alter atoms at a sub-atomic level. That is, as they say, nonsense. What alterations are there that you think are occurring?

Remember that atoms are made up of magnetic charges.

No, they are not.

At a Sub Atomic Level the effects of electrical/magnetics are
even more pronounced.

Wrong again. The only direct effects you get at a nuclear level with EM are when you are so far into the gamma that you get photodissociation of the nucleus. That is the sort of thing you don't see every day.

I believe in due time, the track record will clearly record
the direct adverse health effects related to the technology
we are arguing.

I believe we've been using radio since the turn of the 20th century, and that we've been bombarded non-stop since t0 of the universe with radio waves. That all radio waves are the same. And that light is qualitatively the same as a radio wave, except with higher energy. And we really haven't seen any dire health effects. But there have always, right from Fessenden's first demos, that were convinced that radio waves were killing them or were some sort of mind control device.

(((Why not try this Experiment)))

Why not find me a clear-cut study by a reputable group that clearly shows a problem, one that's not equivocated, is done with proper controls, and is repeatable?

a reply to: Bedlam

So it appears to me that there is a fair amount of research proving this in the global arena.

youtu.be...

I know that it is youtube, however in watching the video, she presents the information from what research is out there.

originally posted by: elementalgrove
a reply to: Bedlam

So it appears to me that there is a fair amount of research proving this in the global arena.

youtu.be...

I know that it is youtube, however in watching the video, she presents the information from what research is out there.

And are there multiple, reproducible, unequivocal studies that show x or y causes some health problem beyond random chance?

eta: it's a bit worrisome that it's on youtube and has links to educateyourself as 'proof'.

a reply to: Bedlam

That is something they are working on, it appears that they have enough to believe there is just cause for concern.

I do not know how they were producing the data that she was showing in her presentation, but as I said it seems like there is a growing interest in finding out more about the dangers, at least in other countries. Would you not agree that there is some hefty interest in not producing the studies you are asking for?

There are a lot of things that are not within the realm of being proven according to western science, however when it comes to matters of the subtle energies that exist beyond simply our physical bodies, that chinese/ayurvedic as well as most indiginous cultures understood and which I have personally tuned into, I have no need for science to prove anything to me. Honestly, I am quite skeptical about mainstream science, for many reason, tobacco science back in the day being a precedent that can not be ignored.

This is an abstract I found searching on Bioelectromagnetic Medicine:
LINK

Only recently has the critical importance of electromagnetic (EM) field interactions in biology and medicine been recognized. We review the phenomenon of resonance signaling, discussing how specific frequencies modulate cellular function to restore or maintain health. The application of EM-tuned signals represents more than merely a new tool in information medicine. It can also be viewed in the larger context of EM medicine, the all-encompassing view that elevates the EM over the biochemical. The discovery by Zhadin that ultrasmall magnetic intensities are biologically significant suggests that EM signaling is endogenous to cell regulation, and consequently that the remarkable effectiveness of EM resonance treatments reflects a fundamental aspect of biological systems. The concept that organisms contain mechanisms for generating biologically useful electric signals is not new, dating back to the nineteenth century discovery of currents of injury by Matteucci. The corresponding modern-day version is that ion cyclotron resonance magnetic field combinations help regulate biological information. The next advance in medicine will be to discern and apply those EM signaling parameters acting to promote wellness, with decreasing reliance on marginal biochemical remediation and pharmaceuticals.

But I have found books studying this phenomenon, the bioelectric effect and the geomagenetic field, which occurs naturally and seems to influence cell health and growth, from 1979 and earlier. What that indicates along with this abstract, is they've known for quite some time how important this is to the health of all biological creatures, and can be used for sickness, as well as wellness. If the abstract provided by the National Institutes of Health claims now that it's only being known recently. this isn't exactly true. In fact, in 1979, they were researching the effects of electromagnetic field in vitro, on a fetus.

The fact is, the information is so readily available and obvious, that it's had to be admitted to. The man-made electrostatic issue is pretty well known, imho, from everything I've read, and that's quite a bit. You can't have wireless tech that makes use of this, and keep the secret of what it does to natural organisms. It's just that simple.

Good thread OP. If you need more links that are scientific like this, I'll be happy to provide them. This issue is obvious, really.

ETA: As I'm looking through the comments arguing about this, I wonder if I need to post the proof of what is called non-lethal weaponry by the army, and their ability to use it to cause pain, confusion, burning sensations on the skin,, etc,. and their active denial system also used to protect soldiers from the same in the field. This is a weapon. It's pretty well known, mentioned in several military
documents. Here's one: www.dtic.mil... about protecting troops.

Here's the directed energy weapon link: en.wikipedia.org...

They both use this and protect from its use. The Department of Defense, in fact, specializes and knows a great deal about building Fairaday Cages, and using this tech in tents which can be erected in the field during wartime for communications……so as not to be effected…..

I'll bring those links, too, if the arguers would like. This is now a moot issue. It's been proven. It's been weaponized. And it's used regularly in the medical field to help, as well, as in magnetocardiography, for instance…..

a reply to: Bedlam

You crack me up !
I'll do some homework on carrier waves as well.
Send me a link to some educational literature.
Thanks for the replies!

Here's an interesting little tidbit for You:

Link www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

originally posted by: elementalgrove

"subtle energies that exist beyond simply our physical bodies"

... means "We can't detect them, can't instrument them, have no proof that they exist, have no cause to believe they exist, and in tests designed to see if people can sense/control/manipulate them, they end up with the same results as random chance."

I also find it a bit odd that you depend on scientific research to prove EM is bad for you, yet you seem to have contempt for science if it proves 'subtle energies' don't exist.

originally posted by: Wildmanimal
a reply to: Bedlam

Here's an interesting little tidbit for You:

As I expected to find:

"The result is a complex picture, where some studies show effects on the blood-brain barrier, whereas others do not."

Equivocal. Ambiguous. As usual.

a reply to: Bedlam

Exactly,

So for instance, one study reports harmless results.
Another study reports harmful results.

Are they both wrong?
Are they both right?

Time will tell no doubt.
The Bottom line is that you are a proponent that this technology is harmless
and I am proponent of the belief that it is potentially harmful.
Evidently, we are both stubborn, so we do have something in common.

a reply to: Bedlam

Well from a stictly scientific mindset you can believe that if you wish.

These energies have been experienced for thousands of years in both hindu/buddhist/taoist teachings. They have methods of cultivating awareness that are worth at the least looking into. Heck even the esoteric christian/judaic/mulsim teaching that have been kept from the masses taught about them.

I personally do not depend upon scientific research to prove anything about EM, my own personal experiences within shutting my WIFI off as well as cell phone and observing my sleeping/dreaming patterns has been all the proof I need. I began this thread in the hopes of people who could help me verify my experiences with their knowledge. Barely looking into the issue I find that there are those in the scientific community who have raised the alarms as well.

My contempt for science is relatively sound, due to the clear corruption that exists within the scientific community. They are no different than politicians in my book, controlled by money. Tobacco science is an old one, but clear example of what I am talking about. In my view this same idea can be applied to Herbicide/Pesticide application and lets say the EPA's bowing down to corporate science to continue poisoning the environment, how long till they finally allow the studies of independent scientists linking them to all kinds of issues that are abnormal for a healthy human being to have, lets say autism as a clear example.

I will end with this, for the longest time modern science has viewed the heart as an organ that pumps blood, this is all, the idea that there could be a consciousness existing within the heart is still laughed at by mainstream science. I will point you to the institute of heartmath and the amazing studies they are doing that are proving this to be true.

www.heartmath.org...

They are also attempting to measure the subtle energies that have yet to be acknowledged.

homepages.ihug.co.nz...

Science has lacked a very important part of the puzzle, that being our spiritual essence and its ability to heal. I being the conspiracy minded individual that I am do not find it far fetched that, those at the most cutting edge of technology, are aware of these things and given how just about everything in our society is toxified with chemicals and the scientific community are no where to be found in ending the bombardment of poisons, I think that the it is not far fetched at all that they could be purposely using the EM tech to effect the subtle energies of our bodies. Contributing to the absurd health epidemic that is oh so profitable!

originally posted by: elementalgrove
I will end with this, for the longest time modern science has viewed the heart as an organ that pumps blood, this is all, the idea that there could be a consciousness existing within the heart is still laughed at by mainstream science. I will point you to the institute of heartmath and the amazing studies they are doing that are proving this to be true.

They're amazing alright. And incredible. In the strictest sense of the word.

They are also attempting to measure the subtle energies that have yet to be acknowledged.

Gooooood luck. Remember, "subtle" and "putative" in this context means "bogus".

Science has lacked a very important part of the puzzle, that being our spiritual essence and its ability to heal.

If you can't measure it, or detect it, or perceive it in any way, how do you know it's not your imagination?

originally posted by: elementalgrove
a reply to: Bedlam
... I will end with this, for the longest time modern science has viewed the heart as an organ that pumps blood, this is all, the idea that there could be a consciousness existing within the heart is still laughed at by mainstream science. I will point you to the institute of heartmath and the amazing studies they are doing that are proving this to be true.

Surprise surprise the founder of heartmath "Doc Childre" is not doctor of medicine or mathematics...
heartmath.org/about-us/ihm-team/about-doc-childre.html
He's a musician rehashing half-baked hippy nonsense : here are his views on the scientific method ...

Doc Childre wrote ... 'Can you imagine "common sense" surpassing science and technology in the quest to unravel the human stress mess? In time, society will have a new measure for confirming truth. It's inside the people-not at the mercy of current scientific methodology.'

worldofquotes.com/author/Doc+Childre

"common sense" presumably being whatever the cult-leader says is true without requiring any of that tedious "scientific methodology" to corroborate his assertions, [ heartmath is not-for-profit, so tax-exempt , donation$ welcome ] .


[ isn't he ripping off late the multi-millionaire John Lennon there ? ]

a reply to: Bedlam

How do you know it is not beyond your imagination?

I suppose the reason I say that is because of recorded near death experiences that will always defy science.

People have literally died on an operating room table, their physical body with no more heartbeat, yet somehow whatever you wish to call it, lets say their consciousness has been able to be aware and recount exactly what happened around them in the period in which they were clinically dead.

How can imagination continue beyond life?

a reply to: Frank12345

Surpise Surprise, he hired quite the advisory board full of people with excellent credentials!

www.heartmath.org...

I mean when you wish to be a skeptic, you will find whatever methods of doing so, for example, do you believe you have something called intuition? This is what Doc Childre was alluding to in your quote, I suppose if you would wish to analzye John Lennon's amazing song, it may be possible to make the leap that this is what he was also alluding to as well.

Also do you simply have blind faith in the current scientific methodology, skeptics of spirit always impress me with their dogmatic attachement to the modern church of the mainstream scientific community that in no way could be corrupted by money!

I love that you made the jump to cult leader! Priceless

originally posted by: elementalgrove
a reply to: Frank12345
Surpise Surprise, he hired quite the advisory board full of people with excellent credentials!

"Doc" has said he doesn't value "scientific methodology" so why hire any scientists , other than for PR purposes ?

HeartMath looks like a variant of the Scientology [ Dianetics ] scam : Scientology uses e-meters to measure stress , "Doc" uses eWave heart-rate monitors to measure stress, [ both organisations created by non-scientists yet use scientific terminology , and of course both tax-exempt ].

originally posted by: elementalgrove
... do you simply have blind faith in the current scientific methodology, skeptics of spirit always impress me with their dogmatic attachement to the modern church of the mainstream scientific community ...

If you think science is dogmatic you've not understood the scientific method, ( or you don't understand the word dogmatic ).

a reply to: Frank12345

Oh I understand the scientific method just fine, however the scientific method is not always applied in its truest sense when it comes to the money funneling in from corporate interests. Where it becomes dogmatic is when people look to place the scientific community on a level of incorruptibility due to "the scientific method" and they close their minds to anything that is outside of the whole peer reviewed box. Which I am sure you can guess I believe is corruptible as well.

I put main stream scientists into the same category of politicians, money creates science like it creates policy.

"The Global Coherence Initiative:
Creating a Coherent Planetary Standing Wave",
By Rollin McCraty, Ph.D.; Annette Deyhle, Ph.D. and Doc Childre

heartmath.org/research/research-publ ications/gci-creating-a-coherent-planetary-standing-wave.html

Now that's just ripping-off The New Seekers.

That you couldn't spot "HeartMath" was a scam shows you have no discernible critical facilities.

a reply to: tetra50

I would give you many many more stars for your post here my friend!!

Quite literally this is exactly what I was hoping for!

Above and beyond really, I will have fun learning more about the non-lethal weaponry and the directed energy! I find it shocking that no one else has commented on your well informed post! Thank you for the link to the study as well. I would appreciate whatever links you would like to share