QUESTION to ALL Atheists!

originally posted by: tavi45

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: TechUnique

I don't think anything would convince me. If God physically entered my room and performed some miracles, and proclaimed Jesus was his risen son I would believe it was a hallucination of some kind. If he was willing to chat for awhile and talk about my numerous reasons for being an atheist, and if he was able to clear those things up for me then that would go a long way towards convincing me. If I was to be convinced I would still not worship him though. Personally I think he is morally bankrupt.

Some of the reasons I am an atheist:
Numerous contradictions in the Bible.
Numerous denominations of Christianity in disagreement.
Lack of historical evidence for many of the claims.
Impossibility of many of the claims (e.g. Noah's Ark).
God's paradoxical attributes (e.g. Omnipotence & Omniscience).
God's very human characteristics prove he isn't perfect or all loving.
God's moral fiber leaves a lot to be desired. (See my signature)
God's relationship with Satan.
Numerous failed prophecies and predictions.
Similarities with older religions/myths/legends etc.
Absence of any objective proof that prayer works.
Texts about Jesus were written way after he may or may not have lived.
Every generation believes it's the "end times" but time keeps ticking.
Some Christians are willing to lie to spread the faith (e.g. Martin Luther).
Numerous holy wars and inquisitions all in the name of God.

Those, for starters, are why I'm 100% certain the Christian God does not exist.

You sure have put a lot of thought into NOT believing in God. Your general attitude toward the issue suggests that you resent God rather than purely not believing in him.

Did something awful happen to you or someone you know? Resentment can get to the best of us.

The absolute arrogance behind this post and many others is astounding.

You claim wakeupbeer and others by extension must have had a traumatic event that caused them to resent or reject God. Earlier in the thread you said numerous traumatic events involving drug use (isn't that against T&C?)led you to God. So even if some traumatic event led someone to deny God how is that any worse than your traumatic events leading you to believe in God?

I know I rejected organized religion after seeing how much bs is involved. I could write a book on the stuff that happened in my church and especially to my father, who is the living ideal of a hardworking American Christian man.

What I resent more than the church is people like you who are determined to ignore the valid choices others made after a great deal of rational thought. What drives me absolutely insane is that you came to find God because you almost died from your terrible and irrational decisions. Just because you need God to keep yourself from sliding back into self destruction doesn't give you the right to push this crap on people.

Just stop. I beg of you. This isn't the right place to play missionary.

I always believed in God. I just didn't want to believe it was the Christian God.

You beg me to stop?

GO AWAY. I'M HARDLY BEGGING YOU TO POST.

originally posted by: WhiteAlice
If I'm going to go to hell for saying that and my non-belief, I'm down with that.

Hell in the Bible isn't like they teach it in Church anyway. That everlasting torture bit is just a fear tactic that has gained traction over the centuries.

originally posted by: TechUnique
What would be proof of God existing for you?

What would have to happen for you to go 'OH.. yeah, ok'

IS there anything that would do that? If God physically entered your room, performed a miracle and proclaimed that Jesus was his son and rose from the dead would you believe it or would you think you were hallucinating? Or would you 'Just know'?

Please answer any and all of those questions, I'm trying to understand the psychology of an adamant atheist.

No hate in this thread please.

i doubt you're actually interested in understanding the views, or perspectives of someone who doesn't believe as you do, but i'll give you the benefit of the doubt, this one last time..

now, as to your questions....that's a tricky one...the standard of proof would be VERY high, as a being from a different time or place, would theoretically have the required technology to APPEAR godlike...

i guess the first thing would be, i'd need to see this supreme being...and it would need to be in a venue where i wasn't the only one seeing it...

then i would need a substantial amount of proof.....like, for instance, if "god" can create something from nothing, if this being could snap it's fingers and create me some new teeth, so i can chew things again, and not hafta deal with nasty infections every few months.....well, that would go a long way....wouldn't be enough on it's own, but it would be a start...

then i'd probably want to see my mother cured of her ailments, maybe turn my cat into a person for 24 hours, so i could talk to him, and get a handle on why he meows so much...perhaps if i could get my aunt, or my grandfather back, that would be swell...

i mean, these seem rather petty....but this is basic stuff that any supreme being should be able to pull off...

then, maybe we could talk about the bible, and whether or not it's legit, and maybe this being could prove to me that all this stuff is legit....

of course, then i'd hafta ask this being THE question.....and then it would all fall apart..

a reply to: Rodinus

No documented miracles?

There are countless miracles performed in the Bible. You may laugh the Bible off as a fairytale but it's not. You only have to search Google to find a hoard of ex Atheists who have started to realize this. The funny thing when you hear these stories you have an image of a crazed scientist who spent too much time in the lab without a respirator.

This isn't actually the case. In fact, these scientists are often very respectable, committed and intelligent people, a lot more composed and 'together' than your average God slandering atheist.

Search it up you'll see exactly what I mean. Then you have to take into account the amount who are not even telling anyone about it because they are too scared. Scared of precisely the response I am receiving on this site for my faith.

You can hardly blame them. Still, people should be speaking up more now than ever.

originally posted by: Daedalus

originally posted by: TechUnique
What would be proof of God existing for you?

What would have to happen for you to go 'OH.. yeah, ok'

IS there anything that would do that? If God physically entered your room, performed a miracle and proclaimed that Jesus was his son and rose from the dead would you believe it or would you think you were hallucinating? Or would you 'Just know'?

Please answer any and all of those questions, I'm trying to understand the psychology of an adamant atheist.

No hate in this thread please.

i doubt you're actually interested in understanding the views, or perspectives of someone who doesn't believe as you do, but i'll give you the benefit of the doubt, this one last time..

now, as to your questions....that's a tricky one...the standard of proof would be VERY high, as a being from a different time or place, would theoretically have the required technology to APPEAR godlike...

i guess the first thing would be, i'd need to see this supreme being...and it would need to be in a venue where i wasn't the only one seeing it...

then i would need a substantial amount of proof.....like, for instance, if "god" can create something from nothing, if this being could snap it's fingers and create me some new teeth, so i can chew things again, and not hafta deal with nasty infections every few months.....well, that would go a long way....wouldn't be enough on it's own, but it would be a start...

then i'd probably want to see my mother cured of her ailments, maybe turn my cat into a person for 24 hours, so i could talk to him, and get a handle on why he meows so much...perhaps if i could get my aunt, or my grandfather back, that would be swell...

i mean, these seem rather petty....but this is basic stuff that any supreme being should be able to pull off...

then, maybe we could talk about the bible, and whether or not it's legit, and maybe this being could prove to me that all this stuff is legit....

of course, then i'd hafta ask this being THE question.....and then it would all fall apart..

Are you serious?!?!

Do you realize how insane that is? LITERALLY COMPLETE DENIAL EVEN IN THE FACE OF THE TRUTH. You are already setting yourself up for failure. I don't think you will ever believe! I am literally praying for you right this second.

I can't believe everything you just said. I thought other people's demands of proof of God were insane and incredible but that comment is unreal and just goes to show how DETERMINED people are NOT to believe.

This thread has be so, so telling.

originally posted by: TechUnique
In other words, you have to have faith for God to appear to you. If you don't have faith you are lost. How can you find anything if you are lost?

OR, something coincidental happens, that feeds your own confirmation bias....

there is always more than one way to see something...

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer

originally posted by: WhiteAlice
If I'm going to go to hell for saying that and my non-belief, I'm down with that.

Hell in the Bible isn't like they teach it in Church anyway. That everlasting torture bit is just a fear tactic that has gained traction over the centuries.

You just highlighted one of the major problems with you guys not believing.

The church of MAN has completely destroyed your faith.

originally posted by: Daedalus

originally posted by: TechUnique
In other words, you have to have faith for God to appear to you. If you don't have faith you are lost. How can you find anything if you are lost?

OR, something coincidental happens, that feeds your own confirmation bias....

there is always more than one way to see something...

Of course, but there is only one right way.

Are you telling me that I'm wrong? Besides, that is based on what I've said ONLINE. Not even in person. You weren't even there, let alone experiencing it as me. God can reveal himself in ways that will only be proof to you but it is completely IRREFUTABLE.

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Daedalus

originally posted by: TechUnique
What would be proof of God existing for you?

What would have to happen for you to go 'OH.. yeah, ok'

IS there anything that would do that? If God physically entered your room, performed a miracle and proclaimed that Jesus was his son and rose from the dead would you believe it or would you think you were hallucinating? Or would you 'Just know'?

Please answer any and all of those questions, I'm trying to understand the psychology of an adamant atheist.

No hate in this thread please.

i doubt you're actually interested in understanding the views, or perspectives of someone who doesn't believe as you do, but i'll give you the benefit of the doubt, this one last time..

now, as to your questions....that's a tricky one...the standard of proof would be VERY high, as a being from a different time or place, would theoretically have the required technology to APPEAR godlike...

i guess the first thing would be, i'd need to see this supreme being...and it would need to be in a venue where i wasn't the only one seeing it...

then i would need a substantial amount of proof.....like, for instance, if "god" can create something from nothing, if this being could snap it's fingers and create me some new teeth, so i can chew things again, and not hafta deal with nasty infections every few months.....well, that would go a long way....wouldn't be enough on it's own, but it would be a start...

then i'd probably want to see my mother cured of her ailments, maybe turn my cat into a person for 24 hours, so i could talk to him, and get a handle on why he meows so much...perhaps if i could get my aunt, or my grandfather back, that would be swell...

i mean, these seem rather petty....but this is basic stuff that any supreme being should be able to pull off...

then, maybe we could talk about the bible, and whether or not it's legit, and maybe this being could prove to me that all this stuff is legit....

of course, then i'd hafta ask this being THE question.....and then it would all fall apart..

Are you serious?!?!

Do you realize how insane that is? LITERALLY COMPLETE DENIAL EVEN IN THE FACE OF THE TRUTH. You are already setting yourself up for failure. I don't think you will ever believe! I am literally praying for you right this second.

I can't believe everything you just said. I thought other people's demands of proof of God were insane and incredible but that comment is unreal and just goes to show how DETERMINED people are NOT to believe.

This thread has be so, so telling.

I found his response to be quite reasonable

I don't know what you're on about honestly...

This thread wreaks of troll

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer

originally posted by: WhiteAlice
If I'm going to go to hell for saying that and my non-belief, I'm down with that.

Hell in the Bible isn't like they teach it in Church anyway. That everlasting torture bit is just a fear tactic that has gained traction over the centuries.

Mhmmm, mostly brimstone and fire in the bible. I've always hated the cold so a little everlasting heat might be nice.

All those miracles happened during the writing of the bible.

Any post bible proof of god performing miracles?... Nope... No pics or multiple witness documented accounts in our modern Era!

Bring on solid 100 percent that the almighty god exists?

Kindest respects

Rodinus

a reply to: [post=18681620]TechUnique[

a reply to: TechUnique

No it didn't. All the errors, improbabilities, and impossibilities in the Bible did.

I let the Bible speak for itself. I'm not the kind of person who rejects something merely because some peeps got some stuff wrong about the book they were teaching me from.

As there are too many possible definitions to god, it is a word which bears little fruit of further conclusions, sadly.
So how do you prove something that is not defined? You can only prove definitions like an intelligent network being around everything.

Just as a bible had warned not to worship a cow picture as god, people should neither worship a little man or anything unknown. Worship does not help anyone, sadly. But no matter what god is, if it has positive effects, we should work together with it - instead of talking weird stuff to it.
The media depicts god as a man in the sky, so humans word level logic kicks in completely distancing from everything related to religion.

In order to improve those who put god in the center as well, however, I am not an atheist, but merely improve and exchange logics from all sides towards the most accurate logic.

Surely, something external judging you to put you somewhere heavenly or hellishly sounds useful, but if you became aware of the whole, you would rather see how every action you do affects your other you(s) rather than guessing or even being confused by media claiming what is good or bad. Intentions alone don't make the change towards better.

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Daedalus

originally posted by: TechUnique
What would be proof of God existing for you?

What would have to happen for you to go 'OH.. yeah, ok'

IS there anything that would do that? If God physically entered your room, performed a miracle and proclaimed that Jesus was his son and rose from the dead would you believe it or would you think you were hallucinating? Or would you 'Just know'?

Please answer any and all of those questions, I'm trying to understand the psychology of an adamant atheist.

No hate in this thread please.

i doubt you're actually interested in understanding the views, or perspectives of someone who doesn't believe as you do, but i'll give you the benefit of the doubt, this one last time..

now, as to your questions....that's a tricky one...the standard of proof would be VERY high, as a being from a different time or place, would theoretically have the required technology to APPEAR godlike...

i guess the first thing would be, i'd need to see this supreme being...and it would need to be in a venue where i wasn't the only one seeing it...

then i would need a substantial amount of proof.....like, for instance, if "god" can create something from nothing, if this being could snap it's fingers and create me some new teeth, so i can chew things again, and not hafta deal with nasty infections every few months.....well, that would go a long way....wouldn't be enough on it's own, but it would be a start...

then i'd probably want to see my mother cured of her ailments, maybe turn my cat into a person for 24 hours, so i could talk to him, and get a handle on why he meows so much...perhaps if i could get my aunt, or my grandfather back, that would be swell...

i mean, these seem rather petty....but this is basic stuff that any supreme being should be able to pull off...

then, maybe we could talk about the bible, and whether or not it's legit, and maybe this being could prove to me that all this stuff is legit....

of course, then i'd hafta ask this being THE question.....and then it would all fall apart..

Are you serious?!?!

Do you realize how insane that is? LITERALLY COMPLETE DENIAL EVEN IN THE FACE OF THE TRUTH. You are already setting yourself up for failure. I don't think you will ever believe! I am literally praying for you right this second.

I can't believe everything you just said. I thought other people's demands of proof of God were insane and incredible but that comment is unreal and just goes to show how DETERMINED people are NOT to believe.

This thread has be so, so telling.

I found his response to be quite reasonable

I don't know what you're on about honestly...

This thread wreaks of troll

You don't understand me so I'm automatically trolling?

I'm not being funny but I've got much better things to be doing with my time than trolling you. I work literally all day on 2 different jobs of mine. The time I'm not doing that I'm researching stuff online and conversing in these threads. I would much rather spend that little spare time I have going to the Gym or playing video games but I'm not.

Trolling? Seriously.

Oh and on top of that I'm building a website and a YouTube channel. I'm not some freak who sits and reads the Bible ALL day rocking to myself because the end is nigh. Neither am I someone who wants the world to end. I don't want you guys to die and miss out on the true life.

THAT is why I'm doing this.

a reply to: WhiteAlice

The Bible is clear that God utterly destroys his enemies. Utterly. The first death people experience is the physical death. But the Bible refers to a second death as well. This second death is that of your soul. The second death happens when you're cast into the crucible of Hell. It's only eternal and everlasting in the sense that it's a permanent death. Not in the sense that it's continual torment. It's permanent separation from God because you were judged and found wanting. The gift of the spirit is eternal life and the punishment for sin is death (not insufferable eternal life).

Hell Know!

Either way, it's not like you or I are concerned about it.

A cozy fire is always nice. I bet Satan has a hell of a lot of good stories to tell.

a reply to: TechUnique

he is sending Jesus and his Angels back to rectify all this

and generations of people have devoted (in my opinion, wasted) their lives to preparing for this event, based on this belief.....they're still not here..

it's a huge scam...."the end times are coming, live in fear, and obey god's law"....so they do, and they teach their kids to do it, and generation after generation, the end times don't come, and you get all these generations who maybe don't live their lives, because the end times were supposed to be coming....wasted lives..

You can see all of todays problems WRITTEN DOWN in the Bible. Everything, I mean everything that they say the world will be like in the time of the end, it IS like that.

the same could be said for most other periods in human history....

hell, the similarities between society on modern day earth, and society on caprica, in the show of the same name, could lead one to believe that maybe that show is based on some long lost historical record that we're not allowed to know about.....i highly doubt we're gonna find any raptors or vipers, with colonial tech, in a cave, in Mesopotamia...

point is that you can read anything you want into any text....doesn't mean it's true...hell, even a broken clock is right twice a day....it's called a self-fulfilling prophecy..

a reply to: TechUnique

You see, I don't see the bible as being any different than any other old book. There were plenty of tales being told about Zeus and his entourage, Odin, the Egyptian Gods and more. Christianity just happens to be the one that took because it essentially appealed to the greater masses. Instead of being a god that might be prone to philandering or theft, you had an impassive god on high who'd not meddle in your affairs. Instead of being spiteful and turning a girl into a spider, God of the bible doesn't do that kind of thing (well, aside from the whole salt business). What all of these books have in common though is that once upon a time, a man wrote a book and that book became a religious belief. It happens in this world. I'm sure that in a few thousand years, the new flavor of the month will be the pinnacle of faith.

If there was a God, I would sincerely doubt that, given that that individual was, in fact, God, they would have much time to be policing the millions (or is it billions) of likely habitable planets within our known universe and imagine if our universe was simply just one universe amidst an ever increasing number of universes. That's a whole lot to be keeping track of and well, that makes me very doubtful that a God, should a God exist, would take a few seconds of their time to get a human being or a collection of human beings to draft a book and do all the other stuff claimed in it. I'm pretty sure he'd have bigger things to manage like, I dunno...creating more universes?

So man made the bible and really, I find reading the bible at times rather humorous. Kind of like the part where Moses was getting frustrated with the people after being liberated from Egypt and he went ahead and did the whole tablet thing (that is remarkably like Hammarabi's Code)? Classic crowd control. Listen to me all of you unruly people for God has spoken to me....

Btw, I think you forgot your original intent and statements in your OP. Here's a refresher:

Please answer any and all of those questions, I'm trying to understand the psychology of an adamant atheist.
No hate in this thread please.

I think that applies to the OP, too, doesn't it? Or is it only you that can judge and dish out hate and accusations to those who do not believe as you do?

Here's a good one from your bible that you might have forgotten.

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgement yet judge, ye shall be judged, and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again. Matthew 7:1-2

a reply to: TechUnique

question: if you weren't around in the time that the bible was written, how do you know for a fact, that it is a factual account of events?

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: WhiteAlice

The Bible is clear that God utterly destroys his enemies. Utterly. The first death people experience is the physical death. But the Bible refers to a second death as well. This second death is that of your soul. The second death happens when you're cast into the crucible of Hell. It's only eternal and everlasting in the sense that it's a permanent death. Not in the sense that it's continual torment. It's permanent separation from God because you were judged and found wanting. The gift of the spirit is eternal life and the punishment for sin is death (not insufferable eternal life).

Hell Know!

Either way, it's not like you or I are concerned about it.

A cozy fire is always nice. I bet Satan has a hell of a lot of good stories to tell.

Just like the flood, Sodom & Gomorrah and even when God commanded the Israelites to commit Genocide (women and children included). It was all for a reason.

It's like the Butterfly effect, or this is how I see it and the only analogy I can think of presenting to you. A bad thing happening can actually mean your life turns out to be the life of your dreams. But you being brave and making the right choice one day to save someones life, could turn out to be at your expense. You wouldn't know. But God does know because he is beyond time. That is how the universe came to be. That is how and why he is omnipresent and omnipotent.

He made us and everything around us. Satan has almost completely destroyed all that is beautiful in this world. No wonder people are Godless. But that will all be rectified soon!

Please reconsider your faith.

originally posted by: Daedalus
a reply to: TechUnique

question: if you weren't around in the time that the bible was written, how do you know for a fact, that it is a factual account of events?

I don't know that EVERYTHING in the Bible is true. I believe with all my heart that God did instruct people to write it for him but I don't trust that all of it has remained intact, furthermore I don't trust that all those 'edits' people talk about, weren't done purely to put anomalies in that raise the question of validity.

You have to at least consider these things I'm telling you.