Why Women Are Seen as Sex Objects More Today by Men.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

Why, when talking about procreation, the man's role is simply to "insure his genes survive" and the woman's is to be an object? Why isn't her role the EXACT same as the man's? To Insure HER genes survive?

Without getting into the equality debate here deeply, the topic is not about genes survival of either party.

The topic is eluding to what men seem to be left with today and why they view women more as sex objects, than partners. And for the record, sure each plays and equal role in genes survival that is a no-brainer here, because it does take two, unless there is a sperm bank available.

a reply to: Realtruth

Friends, partners, men and women can now work together to accomplish these goals. We can argue violent, depressed, suicidal, criminal men in the past were due to the fact the man thought he was unable to provide your mold of man hood now women can help them achieve those things as partners.

You take out all the bull#, and you get a relationship. Men should see their women as their best friends, rely on them for emotional support and in turn provide it. Make decisions together that affect the outcome of both parties and some times either side is going to take the lead. A sexual object is not all that's left.

a reply to: another_lurker

Psst, don't tell them, it's a stripper secret. They think the poor thing so pretty and stupid it has to dance nude, while the good ones know, they're the ones exploiting them...

And it is true: Poor guys, they're brains get less blood, when they see a pretty lady taking her dress of, we do use that to our advantage for ages, too....

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
A woman should never be seen as an object. A beautiful (even nasty) woman that you'd like to have sex with? Sure. But an object? That's your problem. Women are not objects, period, regardless of their body covering.

Agreed, but as the roles of our society have changed dramatically it has caused waves never seen before.

Hmm actually it's everyone's problem, if we are to work together as a functional society, but we only need to look around to see the mess that we are currently in.

There is a gender role confusion to massive proportions, no one knows who's role is what and what role is who's.

Just to weigh in on this. I think the worst periods for women seen as sex objects were in the 70's thru 90's. Today, I think it is more equal, as women have won more independence from old stereotypes, and are recognized now as equals in more places in the workforce, especially corporate management roles. Perhaps it will flip now, and we (men) will get to see what it is like to be discriminated against based on gender.

Still turning this over in my head, not sure what I think of this hypothesis.

Looking at my own life experiences and relationship, I keep wondering- Why is there no mention here of a woman as a source of affection, comfort, guidance?

I am used to the way my husband and other french men refer to their wife as their "douce et tendre"- their soft/gentle and tenderness- which they see as a necessity in life.

It is also accepted that the home and family is the domain of the woman- she is "the spirit of the home"- even if she works outside, she is seen as the organizing force in the home and in relations between family members. Most commonly, it is her that handles the budget of the home and counsels the husband on all "matters of the heart"- understanding their self, their own emotions, their relationships with the other family members.

They consider this a very necessary break from the world of competition, objectivity, aggressivity, which they deal with at work and outside the home. The stats show that in the work force, you will still find what most feminists would call a lack of equality- more men in higher positions. But this important position women hold in the home, as the mediator, the diplomat, the organizer of emotional security and family bonds, is quite frankly more meaningful to them in the majority.
Most french men consider that one cannot have success in that work force unless they have that secure haven to retreat to and re-energize, where they can take a break while someone else takes the reins and makes all the decisions.

Is there no perception of that sort of need for american men today?

It's a tricky situation. On one hand we have the govt. / mss apparatus fully supporting Feminism, Women equality, promoting woman rights, siding with the woman in divorces, etc., etc, and on the other hand, the traditional alpha role-model is being ridiculed, or, the metra-sexual, effiminate model is being perpetuated/promoted across the board. Making a man out of a woman and a wuss out of a man. I don't know if this is a social experiment going on or a conspiracy to weaken men, but role reversals are clearly in sight.

With the boom in IT industry and desktops on all the desks, outsourcing of manufacturing, both men and women are required to work with their fingers. It requires the same physical energy to type on the keyboard for both men and women. Where does that leave us men? Behind? And then we know women are hypergamous -- but with divorce courts totally favoring the wife, where does that leave men?

If traditional role models have been modified, men need to change at looking at women themselves. They are out for attention, displaying their wares for the one with most resources to move their own personal agenda. We need to get past of thinking of them as ones who'd prepare food, clean and rear babies for us.

It will be curious to see how this plays out.

originally posted by: Realtruth
Without getting into the equality debate here deeply, the topic is not about genes survival of either party.

I know that's not the main topic, but I'm disagreeing with you. Simply the way you divided the "roles" shows the problem, I think. Turn it around for a second... Look at how women's views of men have changed.

By your logic here, women used to need a provider/protector and a hunter/gatherer. Those are no longer necessary, so "all women are left with" (using your words) is to see men as a sex object, yet we don't do that, do we? We see men as equal partners (speaking not for all women, but for myself and for any true feminist).

Now, why can't men do the same?

The topic is eluding to what men seem to be left with today and why they view women more as sex objects, than partners.

That's not true, though. Men are absolutely free to see women as equal partners - someone to share their lives, build a solid home, have and care for children and provide for the family. Together. What's preventing that?

originally posted by: Realtruth


Today women don't need men for the hunting and gathering anymore, and they don’t need men to protect them. Women have excelled in the work and business arena granting them the ability to get their food by shopping. This new mode of living has also given women the power to purchase/rent a home or apartment (ie: Shelter).

Protection isn't needed anymore because laws, courts, and law enforcement officers there to enforce territory protections and punishment.

Two parent families are still needed financially to raise a child (at least for the majority of the population). If anything the need for men to help support their children has increased not decreased in the last few decades as wages decreased. Sure there is a small minority of women who do make enough to support a family on their own but those are only a small percentage. Though it's now more socially acceptable for women to raise children on their own, it's actually less feasible.

As for protection, decent men still are needed. The police have done a very poor job of protection as violence against women is higher than ever.

The need is still there, the idea of responsibility is gone.

With some woman that take your fancy.. i say you most likely are gay if
you don't look at them in a sexual way.

Men and woman were created to procreate.. some more than others!

I usually find that it is some middle aged old bag that gets no attention
that bleats on about men treating woman as sexual objects.. when in fact
they are trying to cover up their envious jealous feelings.

A beautiful woman is just that .... and should be admired .

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

Now, why can't men do the same?

Good question, perhaps eon's of genetic imprint of roles?

High level of testosterone?

Men see women as sex objects, this will never change unfortunately. We only need to look to professional women selling services worldwide on the internet and men buying into it.

If we look at how many men as opposed to how many women are selling themselves as sex objects, we see the proportions are way out of balance.

Now what people do with their bodies imo is there own business and not for me to judge morally, but it does act as a very good indicator that men see women as sex objects.

Nudity being sexual is not true of all societies. So it's not a universal truth.
Naturist societies are not hotbeds of sexual objectification in fact the opposite is true.

originally posted by: Pinke

If we're all individuals and not connected, then yes we probably will start looking at each other as objects even without any over arching theories of divorce law or the loss of the male's alleged place in society, no?

I think you hit the nail on the head here. Unfortunately we are very disconnected these days, men, women, children and society as a whole.

We also only need to look at the narcissistic social media like FB and the "Look at me syndrome" to see that self-centered behavior is prevalent.

In my OP I was writing things as I see them, from a males perspective and calling it like I see it.

Do I think men should see women as objects? Nor should women see men as objects?

Absolutely not!


P.S. I did edit the women's Role of Ages as I saw my wording was a bit awkward and was taken in the wrong context.

a reply to: rigel4

Do you know they are jealous or is that just your way of dismissing their views because they are not young and attractive so have no value in your eyes?

a reply to: WilsonWilson

They are. I know that from experience. And it is nothing to be ashamed about, but actually pretty natural, concurrence in getting the... ahem preferred in procreational stuff.... Don't necessarily have to be old though, uglies envy pretties, dumbies envy smarties, poors envy the richer ones... it's just human nature

As long as women pander to men's tastes they will continue to be objectified. If you feel the need to show leg and cleavage, wear ten pounds of makeup, and starve yourselves to wear skimpy clothing you will be viewed as a thing and not a person. Brains are irrelevant as long as you want to be looked at instead of engaged.

a reply to: Peeple
So in your eyes the only women who can object to the objectification of women are pretty women. If you're ugly it doesn't count because you're just jealous?

a reply to: Spruce

Dude: I like pretty clothes, because I like all kinds of art, it is a way to express feelings.
I don't wear make up, most girls who have to do so because they lack selfesteem.
I try to stay on a healthy weight, because the former mentioned art needs a pretty canvas.
Objectify me and you'll give me all you have to get in my pants without ever thouching me, because I am that hot and that smart...
Don't really know what you're trying to say with that statement, exept maybe: I am an old grunt and have to pay for sex...

originally posted by: Spruce
As long as women pander to men's tastes they will continue to be objectified.

Women are objectified whether they're "pandering to men's taste" or not. You're just blaming men's actions on women...

If you feel the need to show leg and cleavage, wear ten pounds of makeup, and starve yourselves to wear skimpy clothing you will be viewed as a thing and not a person.

So, skinny legs, bony cleavage and 10 lbs of makeup make a woman an object? Again, blaming the woman for the man's action... Perhaps a burka is in order? Or a little personal responsibility?

a reply to: WilsonWilson

no, I am saying pretty woman use it to their advantage. It's not my fault when a guy is dumb enough to think I am an object is it?