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Evolution is a farce: Evidence

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posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 06:15 PM
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a reply to: kayej1188



Yes, the tooths are experts in artificial straw man hypothetical examples where they can eliminate all other possibilities "a priori", which then becomes meaningless jabberwocky. It's best to ignore them or face more pages of Gish.




posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 07:32 PM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: TechUnique


You have summed up this threads problem in its entirety. Because you believe what you believe to be fact, you will never agree. Same with us. Difference is, you guys see it as about winning. That says it all.


I put the word "win" in quotation marks for a reason, so you can quit that facetious attitude you've adopted. it's a very loosely applied word and while your education appears to be lacking in some areas, im all but positive you are not that stupid.

the stuff about facts is just you continuing to troll us for lack of a more intelligent response.


Are we going to continue this thread or should we just let it die out?

I vote for the latter..


i rest my case.


You rest your case? OH YEAH. You won. I think?
Sweet.



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 11:25 PM
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This thread.. well.. this thread.

No proper challenge to the theory of evolution.
No proper challenge to the scientific method.
No retractions when certain claims have been shown wrong.
No proof of a conspiracy in favor of evolution.

Case closed, indeed.

Huzzah!

edit on 12-14-2014 by WakeUpBeer because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 12:52 PM
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originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: TzarChasm
Why is this thread still alive? No one is going to "win". All that's left to see now is who gets the last word. You guys have done all the educating that's going to happen in this thread. And you can't make anyone accept the facts. so what's the point?


"Facts"
"Win"

You have summed up this threads problem in its entirety. Because you believe what you believe to be fact, you will never agree. Same with us. Difference is, you guys see it as about winning. That says it all.

Are we going to continue this thread or should we just let it die out?

I vote for the latter..


It's not about winning or losing. It's about one side providing blatantly false arguments and known hoaxes to support a false dichotomy while at the same time dismissing scientific data in favor of a faith based belief system. The folks on the side of science provide facts, the other side puts their fingers in their ears and pretends like they can't hear it. In this entire thread, not one of you has actually addressed any of the evidence behind evolution nor provided a strong argument to suggest it is a farce. Your video contained a known "giant" hoax. But you have to ask, how do giants conflict with evolution in the first place? They really don't. Giants did exist. They were called dinosaurs. Bigger humans isn't entirely out of the question.



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 05:54 PM
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a reply to: Barcs
Sorry for the time lapse between post. Busy time of year!
Barcs I do not want to be argumentative but if you read the link you provided you will clearly see that it proves nothing. The math involved may be "peer reviewed" using the information given and it is correct.
The problem occurs when we look at the information the math is based on. My main complaint is with (T).
The entire paper "begs the question" of :
1. Did the divergence actually happen.
2. When the divergence actually occur.
They are actually assuming that (T) occurred and use that assumption to prove (T) occurred.
Quad



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 09:21 PM
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a reply to: kayej1188

You guys are seriously SOS. I got the information shared from someone that works in a genetics lab. Now you're arguing with someone that works with this as a profession. Get a life, get straight and start producing proof. Fusions DO NOT HAPPEN IN THE WILD. End of discussion.

Don't take my word for it, listen to this guy who got it from a geneticist.

www.youtube.com...

I have no reason to make anything up. Now Evolution, that's making things up. It's like you make up your own theory that since the claim is mutations happen through evolution that ANYTHING is possible. I"m sorry you're wrong.


edit on 15-12-2014 by josehelps because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 09:45 PM
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a reply to: josehelps

Lloyd Pye eh?

I was really into the Star Child skull when I first heard about it.

Then ten years later when he was still asking for money I realized...

He is dead now. You know what the StarChild Project is doing?

Still asking for money. They are milking the gullible/open minded dry.



Pye was also the owner of the "Starchild skull" — a 900-year old deformed human child's skull found in Mexico. He claimed that the child was a human/alien hybrid. Steven Novella provides a much better explanation — that the skull belonged to a child suffering from hydrocephalus. Furthermore, he notes that DNA testing revealed the child to have both an X and Y chromosome, making it fully human. Pye then moved the goalposts and claimed that this was really a "fusion" of human and alien DNA.[6] Intent on getting even deeper into woo territory, Pye then claimed fibers found on the skull were possibly the result of Morgellons. After Pye's death, the Starchild Project continues to claim it has "presented the scientific community with a genetic and physical profile so diffferent [sic] from human that it could be a new species" and solicit PayPal donations for further "research".[7]

rationalwiki.org...
edit on 12-15-2014 by WakeUpBeer because: quote/link



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 09:54 PM
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a reply to: josehelps

So, now let's just consider what's more logical. Are you going to believe a guy in a youtube video who is not a geneticist, let alone a scientist (He is a writer and a paranormal researcher) who you claim was told information by a geneticist, or are you going to believe a multitude of published, reviewed scientific research showing natural chromosomal fusions occurring within many different species? By the way, this guy in the youtube video is not a credible source, and to believe he is would be foolish.."American author and paranormal researcher best known for his promotion of the Starchild skull.[1][2] He claimed it was the relic of a human-alien hybrid,[3] although DNA testing showed it to be from a human male.[4]"

Here are just a few papers from reviewed scientific journals for you:

1) www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
2)link.springer.com...-1
3)genome.cshlp.org...
4)link.springer.com...:CHRO.0000013155.99614.57#page-1
5)link.springer.com...-1
6)onlinelibrary.wiley.com...



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 09:54 PM
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a reply to: josehelps

Funny I've worked in a Genetics lab. One which works on genetics disorders and also evolution. What you posted is utter claptrap neighbor, and the "I got it from an insider" line is very cliche, and suspect
Especially given you have shown an innate inability to grasp genetics.



posted on Dec, 16 2014 @ 12:20 PM
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originally posted by: Quadrivium
a reply to: Barcs
Sorry for the time lapse between post. Busy time of year!
Barcs I do not want to be argumentative but if you read the link you provided you will clearly see that it proves nothing. The math involved may be "peer reviewed" using the information given and it is correct.
The problem occurs when we look at the information the math is based on. My main complaint is with (T).
The entire paper "begs the question" of :
1. Did the divergence actually happen.
2. When the divergence actually occur.
They are actually assuming that (T) occurred and use that assumption to prove (T) occurred.


So you are seriously claiming that genetic mutations do not happen? No offense but there are hundreds of papers on genetic mutations, the one I gave was a quick example to show that, yes, the mutations happen, and yes the rate can be measured. LMAO at claiming that they are assuming T occurred when the entire genome has been mapped and compared to others. That is NOT an assumption by a long shot. Are you just trying to say they made it all up? If so you better have evidence.

You still haven't answered my question as to why genetic mutations stop adding up. You can't just deny everything and use it as an argument, and act like peer reviewed research papers are just made up. This is why arguments with creationists go nowhere. They just sit there and deny everything with no explanation whatsoever. Just denial of science. It's getting old. Please address my points instead of flat out denying them. Maybe just one day a creationist will come along that argues honestly and engages the topic. The only one making assumptions here is you.


edit on 16-12-2014 by Barcs because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2014 @ 06:18 PM
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a reply to: WakeUpBeer

It's not that they are milking people for money, it's that genetic testing cost a lot of money.



posted on Dec, 16 2014 @ 06:31 PM
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a reply to: kayej1188

First of all your first link is useless. The day we are able to hold ourselves to the same criteria as YEAST is the day I'll believe your garbage. They are even saying at the end that frogs are very close genetically to being privy to this change. Again it's a typical Evolutionist tactic.

Why wouldn't I believe him. All of his work was done in laboratory which he paid a hell of a lot of money for. The only difference is he never paid them to incline people to believe God was a space alien, so you're seriously out on this one.

YOU nor is anyone else here on ATS reputable to make the false claim that he is not a credible source. The only thing you would ever consider credible is material which aids in the delusion of Evolution. Did you fail to also realize that in 2008, a team of scientists started working on the Large Hadron Collider. Their efforts were all to aid in the direction of identifying the HIggs Bossen particle, to prove life all started from one big bang, then evolved. Well here it is days prior to 2015, and we are no closer to proving that theory then when we started.

You don't need to spend $10 billion dollars on testing like they have to find out how humans came to be on Earth, I'm telling you how, and I'm not charging a penny.



posted on Dec, 16 2014 @ 06:32 PM
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a reply to: Noinden

No grasping is needed, it's dumbed down pretty well, even though it is complex.



posted on Dec, 16 2014 @ 06:33 PM
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a reply to: josehelps

I guarantee they've raised more than enough, with all the times I heard the guy giving his spiel on Coast to Coast AM. That show has a huge listener base of loyal fans. I'm not certain but I wouldn't be surprised if Lloyd Pye also made it onto Red Ice Radio and other talk shows of that nature. Crowd funding is more lucrative than you may imagine. They're milking people for money because they've already done testing and don't want to admit the skull is nothing special.
edit on 12-16-2014 by WakeUpBeer because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2014 @ 06:47 PM
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a reply to: WakeUpBeer

I don't think so. The last test he was working on before he died, was to recover full DNA from 900 year old remains. He found out after a few labs had already taken his money that you need specialized testing to do this, and it's a mill a pop.

Other labs were only able to recover fragments of the DNA.



posted on Dec, 16 2014 @ 06:49 PM
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a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Sure if you think you can find a lab that can do full recovery on 900 year old remains for less than a mill.



posted on Dec, 16 2014 @ 07:09 PM
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a reply to: josehelps

They already did a DNA test that showed it was a human skull.

It would be cool if it was an alien hybrid skull, don't get me wrong.

But tests have shown that it isn't. Pye and his cohorts are dishonest.

Check out this article: www.theness.com...

The skull is deformed and very intriguing but has entirely human explanations.

I'm not sure if you've ever checked out any of the crowd funding sites, but it is easy to raise a million dollars and more if your project is something people are interested in and are passionate about. Lloyd Pye had a good decade at least of essentially crowd funding this endevour. I find it highly improbable he didn't raise at least a million dollars.

Maybe it's not an intentional scam, and Pye truly believed he had something special. However if that's the case he was not only intellectually dishonest with his supporters, but himself as well.

ETA:
Just as suspected. It's nothing but a scam. Trust me, I used to scam people in a MMO I used to play. I can pick up the scent of a charlatan a mile away.
From StartChild Project:



We urgently need an adventurous investor to provide a minimum of $250,000 to begin complete genome analysis of the Starchild Skull. If you connect us to that investor, we will pay you a $25,000 finders fee. It's that simple!

First thing they do is ask for money and appeal to people's good nature and curiosity. All over the site they ask for money. All over the site they make claims that aren't backed up by anything. Maybe in another ten years...
edit on 12-16-2014 by WakeUpBeer because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2014 @ 07:24 PM
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originally posted by: josehelps
a reply to: kayej1188

First of all your first link is useless. The day we are able to hold ourselves to the same criteria as YEAST is the day I'll believe your garbage. They are even saying at the end that frogs are very close genetically to being privy to this change. Again it's a typical Evolutionist tactic.

Why wouldn't I believe him. All of his work was done in laboratory which he paid a hell of a lot of money for. The only difference is he never paid them to incline people to believe God was a space alien, so you're seriously out on this one.

YOU nor is anyone else here on ATS reputable to make the false claim that he is not a credible source. The only thing you would ever consider credible is material which aids in the delusion of Evolution. Did you fail to also realize that in 2008, a team of scientists started working on the Large Hadron Collider. Their efforts were all to aid in the direction of identifying the HIggs Bossen particle, to prove life all started from one big bang, then evolved. Well here it is days prior to 2015, and we are no closer to proving that theory then when we started.

You don't need to spend $10 billion dollars on testing like they have to find out how humans came to be on Earth, I'm telling you how, and I'm not charging a penny.



You're absolutely correct about one thing, and one thing only in this post--that it IS an evolutionist tactic to provide sources of credible, peer-reviewed, scientific evidence to back-up their points. My first link is useless because it's about yeast? The last time I checked, yeast is a natural eukaryotic organism. You claimed that chromosomal fusions don't happen in nature. That one paper by itself renders your claim erroneous and unsubstantiated. So once again, you have been provided direct evidence that your claims are wrong, but you refuse to accept it. This is called denial in the field of psychology. Or delusion. Delusion may be more accurate, considering that you choose to believe what Lloyd Pie has to say. He's not a trained scientist. His claims have been repeatedly shown to have zero factual or scientific basis. All that's left is faith, and you've got a whole heck of a lot of it.

And as expected from you, another post, another false claim. The Large Hadron Collider is not meant to "prove life all started from one big bang.." It's meant to gain a better understanding of the micro-wave background and it's properties in the moments after the big bang. Of course you don't believe in the big bang, that would be way too rational and logical. 1 in 5 americans still aren't confident that the big bang happened, while about 99.5% of physicists and cosmetologists subscribe to the theory. The reason why? Because the facts and data continue to support the theory. Why aren't some people still convinced? Because they don't base their understanding on facts and evidence, they base it on faith. You fall right into that category. Congrats.



posted on Dec, 16 2014 @ 07:48 PM
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a reply to: WakeUpBeer

You are 100% correct. I've been following the starchild skull saga from the beginning out of mainly entertainment purposes, having a solid background in laboratory genetics. More than ample proof has been provided that the skull belonged to human male suffering from hydrocephalus. What bugs me most about this is the sheer lack of acknowledgement from the starchild camp. Making accusations that the DNA analyses was contaminated, deliberately putting out false and misleading information, showing a fundamental misunderstanding in basic genetics, among other things made me realize just how irrational and scammy these people are. In the scientific community, when repeated evidence is shown to conflict with your theory, you either provide additional scientific evidence, or you admit that your theory was likely wrong, and appreciate that the truth has been revealed. When this doesn't happen, it's clear that there are ulterior motives.



posted on Dec, 16 2014 @ 08:00 PM
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a reply to: josehelps

That is not a reply to what I said. I've disputed what you posted, and I've a back ground that includes genetics. You can name your source, or you can recant



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