probe to the moon........why?

originally posted by: onebigmonkey
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

I'm talking about ones that actually made it!

Just counting the ones that made it to the moon by the soviets and then adding NASA public missions, and then adding military missions, and then reading all the available declassified documents that deal with the moon being an important target to exploit for military superiority and communications before we even get to the year 1977, dwarfs the number of missions that you mentioned being not even 50 in total, but then taking into account the resistance in acknowledging the facts about all of it, we can just agree in any number you wish. I prefer to know what the truth is, so I always try to steer away from that guy with the trail of short bus riding acolytes begging for his google'd doggy treats of info, and it is more fun to watch him tripping over all that hockey equipment they wear, even though they don't play hockey.

Always fun riding on the ATS cruise ship!

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Link and cite your sources.

I'd like to see them, since it's your claim. Then we can all count them and see.

a reply to: eriktheawful

Normally I would be happy to do that, but since I already proved that the Soviets sent about 40 official ones, not counting classified, then to beat the louder spoken counter claim of less than 50 total ever being sent to the moon only requires some lazy person to nonchalantly count a few NASA ones to break the 50 mark, or more like 100 or so if you can actually count, is a foregone conclusion that THEY, and not me was wrong on that token. Therefor I owe you nothing, and didn't even before that.

I have no claim to make to you because I don't care what you know. I don't owe you any research service which would be squandered anyway with more buffoonery. Take what you already were shown and do your own homework with that, OR DON'T.

I already stated that the person I was earlier replying to can feel free to believe whatever number of moon missions they feel happy about having happened in history.

My original suggestion of "hundreds" of moon missions wasn't supposed to be a loud shouted claim from the top of the hill done to start some pissing contest with anyone anyway, and was taking into consideration all the still classified or unknown military missions that are not being counted officially, and to think there aren't any is ridiculous. Google NSA lunar military interests is a good place to begin.

I often forget that here on ATS we have those who consider themselves gatekeepers and they do indeed like to turn casual discussion into a raging fire that burns with the fever of their own mental constipation, and verbal diarrhea. So if you want sources and an education on all of the above, don't cry to me about it, the information is out there if you care enough to find it for yourself. I have already shown enough that 50 missions total is laughable, and If you want to just sit in your easy chair and demand others to do it for you, or you want to just "go with the flow" and parrot "There were less than 50 missions to the moon and that's final, because your buddies say that, then do that. I don't owe you squat

I'm not here to take part in the ATS resident popularity contest like others are.

originally posted by: sparky31

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: sparky31

And how exactly do you propose to do that, if you don't actually, you know, GO there? That's not something that can be done reliably from anywhere but actually being near the moon.

You don't go there with a manned mission without knowing that information FIRST.

well we,ve been there,so we,ve been told so even what the Astronauts have gathered in 5 mins is more than any probe is going to find out in 5 years.

Not really. Probes can map the entire moon in high-resoulution. The Apollo astronauts did not. NASA did send a few probes prior to Apollo to take map out their eventual landing sites, but they did not transmit back images of the entire moon., and certainly not in high resolution.

Toays probes can also use their technology to map the minerals of the entire Moon, paving the way for mining the minerals of the Moon sometime in the not-too-distant Future.

Apollo astronauts could not do that, either.

Apollo wasn't about the science of the Moon. Apollo was all about getting to the Moon, and more importantly, getting to the Moon before the Russians did. Once Apollo achieved its goal of landing a man on the Moon and getting him back safely, then their interest in the Moon was basically done.

Even the public's interest of the moon waned by the end of Apollo. The general public really didn't care too much about going to the moon anymore by the sometime around Apollo 15. The general public grew tired of NASA sending people to the Moon, and the socio-political climate was one where the general taxpaying public felt that continuing to go to the Moon was a waste of taxpayer money. They wanted the government to stop giving money to NASA for Moon missions, and start putting that money towards other social issues, such as poverty, homelessness, and crime prevention.

NASA's budget was cut, plus they also decided to spend the money on new programs, such as the Space Shuttle. It's not a coincidence The Space Shuttle program started at the same time as the last Moon mission. There was no money to go to the moon anymore, so NASA concentrated on the Shuttle.

a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

only if we human solve the problem of Van allen radiation belts and able to go beyond low earth orbits.
for the moment its look impossible task.

originally posted by: parapropter
a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

only if we human solve the problem of Van allen radiation belts and able to go beyond low earth orbits.
for the moment its look impossible task.

dont know where you got that misinformation from but passing the VAB was solved back in the 50's or 60's..

a reply to: choos

do you mean human has gone through the VAbelts and come back alive ?
even Liaka was sent because not knowing enough about VA belts on 1000 miles orbit and new revailing fact show she was died straigt away in one hour time of launch (they say it caused by over heating or radiation ?)

originally posted by: parapropter
a reply to: choos

do you mean human has gone through the VAbelts and come back alive ?
even Liaka was sent because not knowing enough about VA belts on 1000 miles orbit and new revailing fact show she was died straigt away in one hour time of launch (they say it caused by over heating or radiation ?)

look ill over-simplify it for you..

put a hulahoop on the ground and stand at the centre of it.. now try to get out of the hulahoop without touching it..

most people would just walk over it, but i dont know if you can work that bit out or not..

no one planned to go right through the centre of the VAB to reach the moon.

a reply to: choos

do you mean human has gone through the VAbelts and come back alive ?
even Liaka was sent because not knowing enough about VA belts on 1000 miles orbit and new revailing fact show she was died straigt away in one hour time of launch (they say it caused by over heating or radiation ?)

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

In other words, no, you don't have any.

Here we go:

Out of 118 missions set to the moon by all nations of our world, 64 have been successful (not counting those that simply used the moon for gravity assist).

Out of the 64 successful missions, 3 were partial failures.

Out of the 64 successful missions, only 25 actually landed or impacted with the moon.

So out of 118 missions to the moon, since 1958, only 25 have successfully been placed on the moon itself.

Missions to the moon have been conducted by the Soviet Union, United States, European Space Agency, Japan, India and China.

Out of 118 missions to the moon, 48 were by the US. Out of those 48, only TWO were by the US military.

Source

So, you were right in that there have been more than 50 missions to the moon (world wide). Not sure about the rest of your claims.

How about next time you just answer the question, instead of attacking other members? Just a polite request.

originally posted by: parapropter
a reply to: choos

do you mean human has gone through the VAbelts and come back alive ?
even Liaka was sent because not knowing enough about VA belts on 1000 miles orbit and new revailing fact show she was died straigt away in one hour time of launch (they say it caused by over heating or radiation ?)

the people who claim that man cannot leave LEO because the VAB would kill all onboard cannot solve the hula-hoop problem i stated above.

the ones that can solve the hula-hoop problem but still claim man cant leave LEO due to the VAB is probably someone ignorant or knows someone that can financially gain from pushing misinformation.

a reply to: eriktheawful

And I will happily concede that there have been more than 50 thanks to that - it was a back of the envelope calculation adding together the Soviet and US ones I could think of quickly.

It is not, however, 'hundreds'. If you arrive at 'hundreds' by including ones you don't know exist but imagine must be there because you think there must be hundreds, then you are pretty much making stuff up.

If any lunar data are hard to get it is because they are either from secretive governments who distrust their political opponents (USSR, China) or because they aren't that good at it yet (India). Everyone else is spewing data all over the place as good scientists should.

originally posted by: parapropter
a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

only if we human solve the problem of Van allen radiation belts and able to go beyond low earth orbits.
for the moment its look impossible task.

Dr. Van Allen himself did not share your view. He agreed that there were ways through the belts that would subject the astronauts to only a minimal exposure to radiation. So I'm not sure where you are getting your information that says otherwise.

NASA's method for passing through the Van Allen belts was to take a bit of an upward spiral path a little closer to the poles where the belts are narrowest and less dense. The Apollo spacecraft not only passed through these smaller and less dense regions of the belts, but they also spent only about a half hour in the belts. There was some exposure to radiation that does slightly raise the astronauts' lifetime cancer risk, but the increased risk is about the same as someone getting several x-rays taken on Earth over their lifetime.

What WOULD have been a real danger to the astronauts would be if there was a solar flare that occurred during one of the Apollo missions (and in the direction of the astronauts). That would have been a bad thing for the astronauts...but none occurred.

a reply to: choos

oh pal if you plan to go through the VA belts on the pols then its a very simple fact-
if you have seen the magnet with lots of iron scraps around it ,the pols are the place where magnetic fields are most intense and strong. you will see lot more scrapes gathering on the pols then elsewhere
The VA belts has extremely strong magnetic areas with lethal radiations , and they are even intense on polar areas .

a reply to: parapropter

Earth's magnetic fields are weaker than a magnet on your refridgerator.

The radiaton is only lethal if one is unshield by anything, and if they spend very long periods in it.

In other words it's not: Fly in and instantly drop dead.

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

And incredibly it was the peak year of solar flares in year 1969 and Apollo-11 exposed right there on peak time of solar flares ?

a reply to: parapropter

That doesn't mean there were constant solar flares. There were contingencies for that but no major solar flares happened during a mission.

originally posted by: parapropter
a reply to: choos

oh pal if you plan to go through the VA belts on the pols then its a very simple fact-
if you have seen the magnet with lots of iron scraps around it ,the pols are the place where magnetic fields are most intense and strong. you will see lot more scrapes gathering on the pols then elsewhere
The VA belts has extremely strong magnetic areas with lethal radiations , and they are even intense on polar areas .

you better go tell the people behind the encyclopedia britannica then, they made a HUGE boo boo!!!!

The Van Allen belts are most intense over the Equator and are effectively absent above the poles.
global.britannica.com...

Lots of space agencies are talking about going to Mars, or returning to the moon.

They all talk of the concerns about radiation in space, and of the dangers of long term missions off Earth.

None of them seem too worried about getting across the VAB.

Why is that I wonder?

originally posted by: parapropter
a reply to: choos

oh pal if you plan to go through the VA belts on the pols then its a very simple fact-
if you have seen the magnet with lots of iron scraps around it ,the pols are the place where magnetic fields are most intense and strong. you will see lot more scrapes gathering on the pols then elsewhere
The VA belts has extremely strong magnetic areas with lethal radiations , and they are even intense on polar areas .

I've always read that that belts are less dense near the poles, and are practically non-existent at the poles. What information do you have that says it is more intense at the poles? I'd like to see that source for your information.

From what I've learned, there is an inner and outer belt. The inner belt (the more intense one) is more concentrated around the equator, and does not extend past the mid- latitudes. The outer belt is less intense, and does extend further north and south. neither belt reaches all the way to the poles, as this simplified schematic shows:



The trajectory of the Apollo spacecraft (blue line below) was specifically designed to pass through the northern parts of the belts -- missing the proton belt (the inner belt) almost completely, and passing through the less intense portions of the outer belt:


Source:
www.popsci.com...

Also, this "Space Math" link (links directly to a pdf file) shows how to calculate the total dosage an astronaut would get while traversing through the belts along a trajectory similar to Apollo:

spacemath.gsfc.nasa.gov...