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Why isn't Satan admired more?

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posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 07:02 AM
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originally posted by: FlyersFan
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Why isn't Satan admired more?

Because he's pure evil and he hates us. You think God is cruel? Satan is a hell of a lot worse.

I have been unfortunate enough to have had a handful of encounters with demons. They are pure hate and when they are there it feels like all the hate is directed at you. It's soul chilling. There is NOTHING to admire about evil spirits and/or Satan. Nothing. If you admire them they'll just use that to inflict more hate upon you.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.





Im a biologist, i deal with logic and reason,

Yet I unfortunatly have stumbled across such enititys. And what you say is true.

There are things that go beyond science and quite frankly I want no such dealings with "them".

It does not matter if you agree with the bible or not.

The warning in it to keep clear of demons and spirits is dam good advise, nothing good comes from them.
edit on 19-11-2014 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 07:07 AM
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originally posted by: Taupin Desciple
What makes you think the two go hand in hand?

I didn't say anything about God. God wasn't part of the question. The question was 'Why Isn't Satan Admired More'? I answered that question very simply - Satan isn't worthy of being admired. I stated exactly why He shouldn't be ... because He's pure hate.


But there are those among us who see right through that connection you tried to make.

- There is no 'us'. You don't speak for others. There is only you.
- I didn't 'try' to do anything.
- You'd best re-read what I said because you missed it. No supposed 'connection' was trying to be made.

Question - 'Why Isn't Satan Admired More?'

Pure, simple, direct answer - why the Hell would you admire someone or something that absolutely and totally HATES YOU?

Answer - You wouldn't.


edit on 11/19/2014 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 07:16 AM
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originally posted by: Blackmarketeer
Something someone said a long time ago;

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”


Epicurus makes the mistake of believing he understands the nature of God, using logic.

When you were 4, you thought your parents were evil when they held you down to get a shot.

At 4, you couldn't encompass the concept of pain/distress in the short term to deal with a larger problem in the long term, because you couldn't understand the long term, or the nature of consequences. All YOU understood was mama is helping give me an ouchie, because that was the scope of your comprehension at that time.

What you call "evil" may mean nothing to a being that is both omnipotent and omniscient, other than a temporary 'ouchie' that you are shrieking about, but which in the long term is meaningless, if you can see the big picture.

Or, as Socrates might have said, "What is 'evil'?"



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 07:26 AM
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a reply to: Bedlam

Exactly, even from an evolutionary point of view, death and pain make total sense.

Yet it's always atheists who say a god allowing pain and death must be evil, despite it being necessary for evolution.



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 07:32 AM
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I've been playing with this thought as well... it's so so culturally, historically and geographically decided what's good and what's evil. And now we have gays marrying in many countries... it's that an obviously horrible and ghastly thing? Do people die from it? Does it make people unhappy?

And now we have the pill. And condoms. Premarital sex is in no way comparable in 'evilness' to something that actually harms uninvolved people/other people/people in general.

Very basic notions of what's good and evil have been shifting throughout European history and differ still here on earth and within our countries. I'm tempted to think that something's 'evil' when it hurts or harms people in some way. Or when it holds them back or oppresses them.



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 07:38 AM
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a reply to: muse7

It's funny how Christianity in their quest make all things that make you feel good immoral to allegedly be closer to god has created a bad guy that is more sympathetic and likable than the god that they are supposed to worship.



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 07:40 AM
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a reply to: Blackmarketeer

Not really. Job is given a new family and servants at the end of the story because the ones he had before are dead. So it's a happy ending for Job, but what about the family and servants that ended up being pawns in this test to test one man? I'm sure it would ring my bell if I died, got to heaven and found out that I was killed to test some petty squabble between god and the devil.



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 07:50 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
I'm sure it would ring my bell if I died, got to heaven and found out that I was killed to test some petty squabble between god and the devil.


Yet, your purpose in life may be even more petty-seeming.

You may have been put on Earth for nothing more than pulling in front of that blue car on I-95 at 10:04 on the 28th, and slowing them down just a bit so that they aren't hit by the semi that's about to blow down the entrance ramp. After that, maybe God sees that you are either superfluous, or that a longer life may be dangerous to your soul, so YOU end up going under the truck wheels.

Seems evil, but if you can see the bigger view, maybe it's just what the Creator ordered.



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 07:52 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

It's a story you see. Not an actual description of a discussion between a dude named God and a dude named Satan over the lot of a dude named Job. Just FYI


Mankind always used stories to describe the world, to teach. That the Bible uses stories doesn't make the message less relevant. The hero of that story was Job so you are supposed to identify yourself with him to learn something, not some other second role shmuck.

The message is "# happens, keep faith because it's not what happens that matters but how you look at it".


The message is still relevant today when people make their life so miserable for the most petty things. It's not god punishing them, it's them thinking natural things are punishments.



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 07:53 AM
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a reply to: Bedlam

If that account were true then free will doesn't exist. I am destined to die on I-95. But that contradicts Christianity, since Christianity says we have free will. So I'm going to say you are wrong.

By the way, the situation in Job is different, the people are killed AFTER the bet is made. So it's not like they were born to die at god's hands during the bet.



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 07:57 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Bedlam

If that account were true then free will doesn't exist.


Yet, God may know what choices you will make, and still leave you free to make them. If you've got the code listing, the program behaves predictably, no?

And, sometimes God only gives you one shot at free will, and later runs you like a puppet to do his bidding - see also "Pharoah". Screwed up right at the beginning, and then God made his later choices for him i.e. 'hardened his heart'.

eta: there's an entire pile of verses on predestination vs free will one can get into as well. But as Peter said, God can do whatever it wants.
edit on 19-11-2014 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-11-2014 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 08:01 AM
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originally posted by: JUhrman
a reply to: Krazysh0t

It's a story you see. Not an actual description of a discussion between a dude named God and a dude named Satan over the lot of a dude named Job. Just FYI


Mankind always used stories to describe the world, to teach. That the Bible uses stories doesn't make the message less relevant. The hero of that story was Job so you are supposed to identify yourself with him to learn something, not some other second role shmuck.

The message is "# happens, keep faith because it's not what happens that matters but how you look at it".


The message is still relevant today when people make their life so miserable for the most petty things. It's not god punishing them, it's them thinking natural things are punishments.


ACTUALLY the story would be a bit more inspirational if god and satan weren't involved at all. Let me retell the story using natural laws and human behaviors

Job is a wealthy man who has won the genetic lottery. He's got a great family, he has a lot of money, he's smart business wise, and he's just awesome. Then at one point a slew of bad luck swept through and left him destitute. He lost his family to illness. After losing his family, he falls into a deep depression (he may even have become an alcoholic) and winds up losing his wealth paying for drink.

By now Job has reached rock bottom. He's probably one step away from sleeping in a gutter. Eventually a woman takes pity on him and grows close to him. Over time, Job starts to warm up to her and they fall in love. She helps Job rebuild his life and kick the bottle. Then, together they reaccumulate his wealth. Job eventually marries and starts a new family with this woman having conquered his depression and moved on from the brink.

This story is much more inspirational since it leaves all the misfortune up to bad luck and not assigning it to some petty bet between god and satan (like god needs to prove that people are devoted to him lol). It also doesn't trivialize the people in Job's life who lost their lives, since they lost them due to natural causes.



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 08:02 AM
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a reply to: Bedlam

OR it's just a bunch of nonsense and god doesn't have any domain over how I live my life, because the Christian god doesn't exist.



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 08:08 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Bedlam

OR it's just a bunch of nonsense and god doesn't have any domain over how I live my life, because the Christian god doesn't exist.


Or you just willingly refuse to understand that the god of the OT and god in the 21st century are concepts that are as different as the times generating them.

That's always the problem when talking about god, those who believe in a form of theism have a certain definition of god (there are many many FYI), and the atheists who always seem to think god is the old bearded dude in the sky who decides what happens on earth.

This is ridiculous and the source of all mis-communications.

How do you think it's possible people like Newton, Einstein, Lemaitre and Mendel could be theist if they believed in such a god? It makes no sense.



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 08:13 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Bedlam

OR it's just a bunch of nonsense and god doesn't have any domain over how I live my life, because the Christian god doesn't exist.


How can you know?

Maybe your purpose is to give bad counter examples and lead people to salvation by being an unconvincing atheist.



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 08:19 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
This story is much more inspirational since it leaves all the misfortune up to bad luck and not assigning it to some petty bet between god and satan (like god needs to prove that people are devoted to him lol).



Such a story would teach nothing. Just that sometimes you have bad luck.

The message of Job is not that there is good luck or bad luck. It's that such a concept is entirely subjective and you can learn to change your perspective (see them from the perspective of divine beings) on things to not be so self-centered all the time.


It's pretty easy to understand that god (and satan) give us a way to see things from a higher perspective instead of always seeing everything from a personal perspective. All religions and spiritualities teach the ego is a source of suffering. Can't you see the dots and start connecting them? Can't you understand yet what is the endgame of all this religious and spiritual banter? It's sitting there just under your nose.

Why do you think religious people tell you you are not separated from god? It doesn't need to be about a supernatural being with superpowers. It's not the point. It's only the one you fixate on because you can't think of god in another way than a caricature spread by extremists or ignorants.



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 08:52 AM
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originally posted by: JUhrman

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
This story is much more inspirational since it leaves all the misfortune up to bad luck and not assigning it to some petty bet between god and satan (like god needs to prove that people are devoted to him lol).



Such a story would teach nothing. Just that sometimes you have bad luck.


No, it teaches that a person overcame a string of bad luck and persevered through hardship. It's pretty much standard story telling fare.


The message of Job is not that there is good luck or bad luck. It's that such a concept is entirely subjective and you can learn to change your perspective (see them from the perspective of divine beings) on things to not be so self-centered all the time.


The story in the bible is just a story about god being a dick because he can. That's all I see there. God is a bigger asshole in the story than Satan is. I feel it is much more inspirational without god and satan's involvement since it is about overcoming things that are beyond you.


It's pretty easy to understand that god (and satan) give us a way to see things from a higher perspective instead of always seeing everything from a personal perspective. All religions and spiritualities teach the ego is a source of suffering. Can't you see the dots and start connecting them? Can't you understand yet what is the endgame of all this religious and spiritual banter? It's sitting there just under your nose.


Yes I see the endgame of this spiritual banter. The endgame is that religion will finally be gone from humanity as more and more humans become educated are realize that these stories are all myths.


Why do you think religious people tell you you are not separated from god? It doesn't need to be about a supernatural being with superpowers. It's not the point. It's only the one you fixate on because you can't think of god in another way than a caricature spread by extremists or ignorants.


I have many ways of thinking about god. The Buddhist version sounds pretty good to me (that god is more a place than a physical entity). But then again, all religion is assumption without evidence, so I don't subscribe to any of them.



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 08:54 AM
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originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Bedlam

OR it's just a bunch of nonsense and god doesn't have any domain over how I live my life, because the Christian god doesn't exist.


How can you know?


I don't.


Maybe your purpose is to give bad counter examples and lead people to salvation by being an unconvincing atheist.


Because that isn't what I do or what I am. I'm agnostic for one. I just see the Christian god as a silly way to amalgamate gods from older religions, and most of the time it creates contradictions that make the god look evil or make it hard to know what the god wants. The god of Christianity is illogical. As far as gods go, it is a very poor example of one. There are better religions that work more logically given known science.



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 08:55 AM
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I'm a Satanist.


I worship the planet Saturn. (Chronos,Santa,Osiris,Quetzequedal,Nimrod etc etc) Our original sun. It taught us everything "human" - All Art/Design/Language/Philosophy/Political Systems/Agriculture/Theology can be directly derived from Human Beings Anthromorphic observations of the Planet Saturn. Which stood at our celestial North Pole for thousands of years. (The Eye of Providence/Ra/Horus)


That being said it was a bitch - and was responsible for just about every major catastrophe on planet earth. But there's a lesson in everything. Nature's cruel and has a plan. Its a miracle were here at all.


I also worship our current Sun and its associated Christian philosophies.

As well as Mercury and its Hermetic Principles.

Venus and its Islamic Principles

Mars
Jupiter
Uranus
Neptune ...
edit on 19-11-2014 by 131415 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 08:56 AM
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originally posted by: JUhrman

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Bedlam

OR it's just a bunch of nonsense and god doesn't have any domain over how I live my life, because the Christian god doesn't exist.


Or you just willingly refuse to understand that the god of the OT and god in the 21st century are concepts that are as different as the times generating them.


They are both fantasies, so it doesn't matter much in my book.


That's always the problem when talking about god, those who believe in a form of theism have a certain definition of god (there are many many FYI), and the atheists who always seem to think god is the old bearded dude in the sky who decides what happens on earth.


You are making assumptions about me that are mostly wrong.


This is ridiculous and the source of all mis-communications.

How do you think it's possible people like Newton, Einstein, Lemaitre and Mendel could be theist if they believed in such a god? It makes no sense.


That is an appeal to authority fallacy. Just because you are smart, doesn't mean you can't believe the wrong answers.




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